Do religious discussions here make you want to be Christian?

[Kylie]

Hey hey kylie

Do you want to get the evidence? Are you willing to do what is needed?

Remember that battery and h2o experiment. One must follow the guidelines to get a result, i wouldnt use a pencil if a battery was needed.

How u? Its good to see that you still religiously attend this site.

The person claiming the evidence exists is the one who is obliged to produce it. All I need to do is look at it when you provide it.

So, provide it.

 

[Beanieboy]

Hey hey

Dont worry about them my dear, worry about your own salvation.

It's another place I differ from many Christians. My focus iz less about a promised Paradise after I die, but a relationship with God and helping others, and actively loving.

Honestly, it doesn't make logical sense: Have a relationship with God where I pray privately in tongues through the HS, I pray to God a lot, always have, and he responds in thoughts you know are not your own.

Then I die, and God says, Craig! Ho. so, off to hell you go. Rules is rules, even archaic laws of the Ood Covenant no one follows. Except two verses. Sorry. I liked you, too. z

 

[the iconoclast]

It's another place I differ from many Christians. My focus iz less about a promised Paradise after I die, but a relationship with God and helping others, and actively loving.

Honestly, it doesn't make logical sense: Have a relationship with God where I pray privately in tongues through the HS, I pray to God a lot, always have, and he responds in thoughts you know are not your own.

Then I die, and God says, Craig! Ho. so, off to hell you go. Rules is rules, even archaic laws of the Ood Covenant no one follows. Except two verses. Sorry. I liked you, too. z

Hey hey

I agree to some of what you say. A personal relationship with God through the Holy Spirit is important. Helping others is integral.

If you wanna go to the Garden that God had promised, do not fear to ask and want it.

I Like you brother. Keep doing what you are doing and i think we are on the same side.

 

[the iconoclast]

What evidence is there that anyone needs saving from an afterlife which is probably mythical?

Hey hey

Probably - almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.

It seems you are not 100% certain if the afterlife exists. Very interesting!

What evidence do you need to believe? Im sure you know what you wont accept, do you know what you would?

Check this out and tell me what you think? Ps im not using this as an authority. Im throwing something at you to see what sticks.

https://www.amazon.com.au/Evidence-Afterlife-Science-Near-Death-Experiences-ebook/dp/B0032JQ7D0

"This important book about near-death experiences provides compelling evidence that mind and consciousness cannot be reduced to brain activity."--Mario Beauregard, Ph.D., Neuroscientist at the University of Montreal and co-author of The Spiritual Brain

 

[the iconoclast]

The person claiming the evidence exists is the one who is obliged to produce it. All I need to do is look at it when you provide it.

So, provide it.

Hey hey you

You have been discussing these things with us Christians for many years. You, and I have discussed things many times. Remember?!?.

Dont distract the discussion.

Are you willing to do what is needed to get a result? Are you willing to perform a faith experiment and do what is required to get the evidence?

Do you want to be able to prove this to yourself, so you can turn to me and say 'kylie is right and 100 %certain. Icon is wrong"?

Cheers

 

[pleinmont]

NDE's are evidence of the brain shutting down not an afterlife. My husband had one only his convinced him there was no god or afterlife.

 

[muichimotsu]

Hey hey you

You have been discussing these things with us Christians for many years. You, and I have discussed things many times. Remember?!?.

Dont distract the discussion.

Are you willing to do what is needed to get a result? Are you willing to perform a faith experiment and do what is required to get the evidence?

Do you want to be able to prove this to yourself, so you can turn to me and say 'kylie is right and 100 %certain. Icon is wrong"?

Cheers

Like you already asked me, this seems like you're reducing faith to something scientifically testable, which sells it short as something that's meant to, at least in general interpretation of scripture, to not be something that we can just do ourselves, it has to come from outside.

At most, you're suggesting that someone turn off their brain in a sense and just go into something without remotely reliable ideas instead of the general trust we place in humans that is provisional and not based in some intuitive trust, but a mutual understanding

100% certainty is not a realistic idea in terms of anything, particularly when it comes to claims about how the universe works, but we can point out consistency that's demonstrable and falsifiable in future investigations based on those principles, rather than just inferences about how we think it works without demonstration or substantiation

 

[Kylie]

Hey hey you

You have been discussing these things with us Christians for many years. You, and I have discussed things many times. Remember?!?.

Dont distract the discussion.

Are you willing to do what is needed to get a result? Are you willing to perform a faith experiment and do what is required to get the evidence?

Do you want to be able to prove this to yourself, so you can turn to me and say 'kylie is right and 100 %certain. Icon is wrong"?

Cheers

I'm sick of the same old sales pitch I get from you. If you actually have the evidence, produce it and I'll examine it.

Otherwise stop wasting my time.

 

[the iconoclast]

I'm sick of the same old sales pitch I get from you. If you actually have the evidence, produce it and I'll examine it.

Otherwise stop wasting my time.

Hey hey kylie

So you wont do what is necessary to get the evidence? Why not?

Just making sure.

You are not willing to perform a faith experiment and do what is required to get the evidence?

Im alqays going to have this one over you.

 

[muichimotsu]

Hey hey kylie

So you wont do what is necessary to get the evidence? Why not?

Just making sure.

What do you think constitutes evidence? If you're using a faulty standard there, it's no wonder you find Christianity convincing when others don't, since it's not about choosing a belief, but strengthening or weakening what you consider convincing evidence in the first place.

 

[Kylie]

Hey hey kylie

So you wont do what is necessary to get the evidence? Why not?

Just making sure.

You are not willing to perform a faith experiment and do what is required to get the evidence?

Im alqays going to have this one over you.

What in the world are you talking about?

I said that if you have evidence, you should present it. When (if) you present it, I will look at it.

How you interpreted that to mean I will ignore your evidence is a mystery to me, since I never said any such thing.

If you have something, put it up for all to see. If you can't, admit that you have nothing.

 

[the iconoclast]

What do you think constitutes evidence?

Hey hey and yes, we will discuss many things.

Google dictionary says this

Evidence - the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

Do i get an A?

Lets say the Holy Spirit is one good piece of evidence. What do you think about my reply?

If you're using a faulty standard there, it's no wonder you find Christianity convincing when others don't,

What standard should be used here?

My experience convinced me beyond reasonable doubt. What you think?

since it's not about choosing a belief, but strengthening or weakening what you consider convincing evidence in the first place.

Well. Come out and play.

Why does the promise of salvation through Jesus Christ not convince you?

Like you already asked me, this seems like you're reducing faith to something scientifically testable, which sells it short as something that's meant to,

Scientific method - a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

Im not reducing faith. Faith is complete trust in something. Science is not magic thing, it is the conclusions of men who reason with facts. Ps i accept a tried and true result.

at least in general interpretation of scripture, to not be something that we can just do ourselves, it has to come from outside.

What scripture do you know that backs up this claim of yours?

How does faith come from outside? And outside what?

At most, you're suggesting that someone turn off their brain in a sense and just go into something without remotely reliable ideas instead of the

I have not suggested such a thing. Please do not become distracted.

What reliable idea do you need to do what is necessary to be reconciled with God?

general trust we place in humans that is provisional and not based in some intuitive trust, but a mutual understanding

So is your trust in men or men with phds?

100% certainty is not a realistic idea in terms of anything, particularly when it comes to claims about how the universe works,

So check this out. Say you are on a boat and it capsizes, and you fall in to the water with no resistance. The condition is no matter what you fall into water.

Is it not 100% certain you will get wet? Ps there is no other condition. You fall into the water?

but we can point out consistency that's demonstrable and falsifiable in future investigations based on those principles, rather than just inferences about how we think it works without demonstration or substantiation

Consistent - acting or done in the same way over time, especially so as to be fair or accurate.

Certain - able to be firmly relied on to happen or be the case.

How would you apply these principles to my claim that you can receive the Holy Spirit?

Dont be shy. Give it a shot - dont back away from the question.

 

[the iconoclast]

What in the world are you talking about?

Hey hey you

Please excuse me. Im talking about how to get to the evidence. God has chosen a way to come to Him and you must follow the guidelines. Remember that h2o experiment? I need a battery to perform that experiment, not a toy car.

To get a result we have to do what is necessary and relevant- is this statement correct?

I said that if you have evidence, you should present it. When (if) you present it, I will look at it.

I already have remember. I record our conversations.

Here it is again.

No one can come to God unless through Jesus. First you need to have 100% faith in Jesus - that He is, who He is and can give you reconciliation with God, because we are born into sin.

Once you have admitted that Christ is your salvation you will receive the Holy Spirit. The gift of the Holy Spirit is the evidence if you wish to get it.

How you interpreted that to mean I will ignore your evidence is a mystery to me, since I never said any such thing.

You did ignore the question. I will repeat it.

1. So you wont do what is necessary to get the evidence? Why not?


2. You are not willing to perform a faith experiment and do what is required to get the evidence?

Im always going to have this one over you.

If you have something, put it up for all to see. If you can't, admit that you have nothing.

Well, lets see what you have to say.

As always its good to discuss things with you. While im here, what convinced you there is no afterlife?

Cheers

 

[pleinmont]

Hey hey you

Please excuse me. Im talking about how to get to the evidence. God has chosen a way to come to Him and you must follow the guidelines. Remember that h2o experiment? I need a battery to perform that experiment, not a toy car.

To get a result we have to do what is necessary and relevant- is this statement correct?



I already have remember. I record our conversations.

Here it is again.

No one can come to God unless through Jesus. First you need to have 100% faith in Jesus - that He is, who He is and can give you reconciliation with God, because we are born into sin.

Once you have admitted that Christ is your salvation you will receive the Holy Spirit. The gift of the Holy Spirit is the evidence if you wish to get it.



You did ignore the question. I will repeat it.

1. So you wont do what is necessary to get the evidence? Why not?


2. You are not willing to perform a faith experiment and do what is required to get the evidence?

Im always going to have this one over you.




Well, lets see what you have to say.

As always its good to discuss things with you. While im here, what convinced you there is no afterlife?

Cheers

If any of that is true it doesn't speak well of the god character.

 

[Kylie]

Hey hey you

Please excuse me. Im talking about how to get to the evidence. God has chosen a way to come to Him and you must follow the guidelines. Remember that h2o experiment? I need a battery to perform that experiment, not a toy car.

To get a result we have to do what is necessary and relevant- is this statement correct?



I already have remember. I record our conversations.

Here it is again.

No one can come to God unless through Jesus. First you need to have 100% faith in Jesus - that He is, who He is and can give you reconciliation with God, because we are born into sin.

Once you have admitted that Christ is your salvation you will receive the Holy Spirit. The gift of the Holy Spirit is the evidence if you wish to get it.



You did ignore the question. I will repeat it.

1. So you wont do what is necessary to get the evidence? Why not?


2. You are not willing to perform a faith experiment and do what is required to get the evidence?

Im always going to have this one over you.




Well, lets see what you have to say.

As always its good to discuss things with you. While im here, what convinced you there is no afterlife?

Cheers

And here we go.

You tell me I have to accept Jesus into my heart and then I will get the proof of Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Did you not once stop to think that maybe I have already done that?

And that I got nothing?

I'm married to a Christian. He told me that it was important to him that I tried, so I did. And I got nothing from God, no revelation, no insight, no sudden realisation that God is real.

I got dead silence.

But you seem to be utterly incapable of realising that. Are you so arrogant that you think that if something worked for you, that it must work for everyone else as well, including me?

This is exactly my point.

In the H2O experiment, any person who does it will get the same results. You can get everyone who does it to talk about it with all the other people who did it, and they will all absolutely agree. Because it's science, and because it's an accurate reflection of reality.

But it doesn't work when it comes to religion. People reach different conclusions. That's why there's so many different religions out there. That's why there's so many different sects of Christianity. Because there is no objective reality when it comes to religion. It's all just a bunch of people's ideas that do not reflect how reality works.

I've already tried your test. Years ago. And it has failed.

And lots of other people have done the same thing and gotten a similar failure. Your test just proves that religion is man-made.

 

[AvisG]

For the non-Christians: When you're browsing this site, and you see discussions on salvation or Church history or any theological topic, do these discussions make Christianity seem appealing, or do these arguments turn you away?

I've discussed this topic with Christians on this site, but I want to turn it over to the non-Christians: Are we doing a good job of discussing the Christian faith?

The problem is, to a very large extent, internet forums. I've participated for almost 25 years on forums relating to Christianity, spirituality, Near Death Experiences, golf, motorcycles, fitness and many others. They are essentially fungible - all the same.

A Christian forum is inevitably an extremely poor advertisement for Christianity. A golf or motorcycle forum is inevitably a very poor advertisement for humanity in general.

This is just the nature of the internet forum beast. It inevitably brings out the worst in people and attracts a large percentage of people you'd run from if you had to deal with them in person.

This phenomenon is, of course, particularly distressing on a religious forum because it suggests the religion simply "doesn't work" and attracts mostly angry and disturbed individuals.

There is good reason for the old adage that politics and religion shouldn't be discussed at the dinner table. A internet forum is simply this adage writ large.

If I were a non-Christian, I'd conclude from forums such as this that Christianity was basically a fraud. I've often said that if I were an atheist, the argument on which I'd focus is that there is simply no real evidence that Christianity "works" - no real evidence of the unique indwelling of the Holy Spirit that Christians claim, no evidence that a Christian internet forum is distinguishable in any meaningfully positive way from a golf, motorcycle or New Atheist forum, no evidence that Christians as a whole are distinguishable in any meaningfully positive way from Hindus, Buddhists or atheists.

 

[pleinmont]

Whether on-line or in reality the Christians I have come across who claim to be filled with the holy spirit are often highly unpleasant people and extreme in their views. Moderate Christians make no such claims, in my experience.

 

[Kylie]

If I were a non-Christian, I'd conclude from forums such as this that Christianity was basically a fraud. I've often said that if I were an atheist, the argument on which I'd focus is that there is simply no real evidence that Christianity "works" - no real evidence of the unique indwelling of the Holy Spirit that Christians claim, no evidence that a Christian internet forum is distinguishable in any meaningfully positive way from a golf, motorcycle or New Atheist forum, no evidence that Christians as a whole are distinguishable in any meaningfully positive way from Hindus, Buddhists or atheists.

Just out of curiosity...

Since you are not (I assume) a non-Christian, why are you a believer given what you've said?

Not looking for a debate, just curious.

 

[AvisG]

Just out of curiosity...

Since you are not (I assume) a non-Christian, why are you a believer given what you've said?

Not looking for a debate, just curious.

I have been on a 50-year quest for metaphysical truth, and the Gospel is where I've landed after many twists and turns. I don't think there is any particular connection between "Christianity" as evidenced on these forums and in the world at large and being a believer in the Gospel and a follower of Christ. That's the short answer - the long one would be 800 pages.

 

[Kylie]

I have been on a 50-year quest for metaphysical truth, and the Gospel is where I've landed after many twists and turns. I don't think there is any particular connection between "Christianity" as evidenced on these forums and in the world at large and being a believer in the Gospel and a follower of Christ. That's the short answer - the long one would be 800 pages.

Reminds me of that quote from Gandhi. Thanks for the answer!