DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City

[LittleLambofJesus]

This word for "weep/lament" is used 6 times in Revelation out of the 40 times it is used in the NC. These words are only used in Chapters 5 and 18 of Revelation.

# 2799 Used 40 times in 34 verses. 6 times in Revelation:............ Reve 5:4, 5 Reve 18:9, 11, 15,19

Note Jesus weeping in Luke 19:41 over the City. Now note John [who was also an Elder of the OC Assembly in Jerusalem] is shown weeping, and an "Elder" talks to him.

The only other places it is used is for the Great City, which I always viewed as the symbolic "lake of fire", a refining fire for the OC Priesthood as shown in Malachi.

Everthing is FINISHED for the OC Levitical Priesthood after this event. This is the PAROUSIA of JESUS in Matt 24!!!!

Matthew 24:3 He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples toward-came to Him according to own, saying, "Tell us, when shall these be? and what the Sign of Thy ParousiaV <3952>, and of the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age?>[Daniel 12/Revelation 19]

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Luke 19:41 And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments/eklausen <2799> (5656) on Her,
42 saying, "That if thou-knew, and thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was Hid from thy eyes.
43 That shall be arriving days upon thee, and thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/caraka <5482> to thee, and shall be encompassing thee, and pressing thee every which place. 44 And shall be leveling thee and thy offspring in thee, and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in thee, instead which not thou knew the time of thy visitation/episkophV <1984>".

Reve 5:4 And I lamented/eklaion <2799> (5707) much that no-one worthy was found to open-up the scrollet neither to be beholding it. 5 And one out of the Elders is saying to me: "No be lamenting!/klaie <2799> (5720) Behold! Conquers, the Lion, the out of the tribe of Judah, the root of David to open-up the scrollet and [to loose] the seven seals of it".

Reve 18:9 and shall be lamenting/klausontai <2799> (5695) and shall be bewailing/beating-breasts over Her the kings of the Land the ones with her fornicating and indulging whenever they may be observing the smoke of the refining fire of her. 11 `And the merchants of the land are lamenting/klaiousin <2799> (5719) and are mourning over Her, because no one is not still buying their merchandise/cargo 15 The merchants of these things, the ones being rich from her, from afar shall be standing through the fear of the torment of Her, lamenting,/klaionteV <2799> (5723) and mourning 19 and they casted dust upon the heads of them, and were crying out, lamenting/klaionteV <2799> (5723) and mourning, saying, "Woe, woe, the City the Great! in which are rich all the ones having the ships in the sea , out of the preciousness of Her to one hour she was desolated"

http://www.gotquestions.org/amillennialism.html

....................According to Amillennialism, the millennium of Revelation 20:1–6 is being fulfilled spiritually in the present age before the return of Jesus Christ. Thus, the millennium or kingdom of Christ is in existence now. Amillennialists affirm that the millennium began with the resurrection and/or ascension of Christ and will be consummated when Jesus returns again to establish the Eternal Kingdom that is discussed in Revelation 21–22.

One might think that the Rapture is the product of the Reformation, since almost all of its adherents are Protestants, but not so. The student searches in vain to find the Rapture doctrine among the writings of Martin Luther, John Calvin, or John Knox. John and Charles Wesley know nothing of the theory. Even the Puritans (some of the most radical of the radical Protestants) never heard of or wrote about the Rapture. As a matter of fact, not only do the Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholics, and Anglicans deny such a teaching but all "mainstream" Protestants do as well. The Rapture is not to be found in the doctrinal statements of Presbyterians, Lutherans, or Methodists (at least not in the main bodies of each of these groups).

 

[garry2]

But it's written in the Bible - people are reading the wrong books.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

But it's written in the Bible - people are reading the wrong books.

What wrong books are those?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Is Jesus indentifying that "Great City" in Revelation in Luke 19:41? If not, why not. Thanks.

Luke 19:41 And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments/eklausen <2799> (5656) on Her, 42 saying, "That if thou-knew, and thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was Hid from thy eyes. 43 That shall be arriving days upon thee, and thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/caraka <5482> to thee, and shall be encompassing thee, and pressing thee every which place.

Reve 18:19 and they casted dust upon the heads of them, and were crying out, lamenting/klaionteV <2799> (5723) and mourning, saying, "Woe, woe, the City the Great! in which are rich all the ones having the ships in the sea , out of the preciousness of Her to one hour she was desolated"

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

hmmmm. No thoughts on Luke 19 and Reve 18?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Luke 21:28 Beginning yet to-be-becoming/ginesqai <1096> (5738) these-things, up-bend!, and lift up! the heads of ye, thru-that is nearing the loosing/apolutrwsiV <629> of ye [Daniel 12/Reve 19,20]

Reve 16:17 and the seventh one pours out the bowl of him upon the air and came out voice, great, out of the sanctuary from the throne saying :it-has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754).

Reve 21:6 And He said to me: "it-has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754).
I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. I, to the one thirsting, shall be giving out of the spring of the water of the life gratuitously.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Btw, I do not view the RCC or Pope in Revelation and this is one reason why. Any thoughts on this? Thanks.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Interesting. The greeks words for "lament" and "wail" used in Luke 19 and Matt 24:30 are used in Reve 18:19.

This would seem to contradict the AMILL view of the millinneum starting after the "resurrection/ascension" of our Lord and King Jesus.

Luke 19:41 And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments/eklausen <2799> (5656) on Her, 42 saying, "That if thou-knew, and thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was Hid from thy eyes.

Matt 24:30 "Then shall be appearing the sign of the Son of the Man in heaven, and then shall be wailing/koyontai <2875> (5695), all the Tribes of the land and they will shall be seeing the Son of the Man coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and glory, much.

Reve 18:9 and shall be lamenting/klausontai <2799> (5695) and shall be wailing/koyontai <2875> (5695) over Her the kings of the land, the ones with her fornicating and indulging, whenever they may be observing the smoke of the refining fire of Her

http://www.gotquestions.org/amillennialism.html

....................According to Amillennialism, the millennium of Revelation 20:1–6 is being fulfilled spiritually in the present age before the return of Jesus Christ. Thus, the millennium or kingdom of Christ is in existence now. Amillennialists affirm that the millennium began with the resurrection and/or ascension of Christ and will be consummated when Jesus returns again to establish the Eternal Kingdom that is discussed in Revelation 21–22.

 

[Chickapee]

Hi LLOJ ,
do you think this view '' Amill'' is because of this verse ?
rev 3 ;21He who is overcoming -- I will give to him to sit with me in my throne, as I also did overcome and did sit down with my Father in His throne.
i am curious as to why these forms of teaching do exists and are proclaimed as Truth
thanks I am learning more every day , God willing
peace C

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi LLOJ ,
do you think this view '' Amill'' is because of this verse ?
rev 3 ;21He who is overcoming -- I will give to him to sit with me in my throne, as I also did overcome and did sit down with my Father in His throne.
i am curious as to why these forms of teaching do exists and are proclaimed as Truth
thanks I am learning more every day , God willing
peace C

Hi Chick. We are already seated in the Heavenlies with YHWH and His Christ Jesus.
Here is another interesting verse. Luke 21:28. The greek word #622 is for loosing. What are the OC Judeans being "loosened" from and notice a form of that word is also used for the "destroyer" in Reve 9?

I believe it symbolizes being loosed from the OC Mosaic and Levitical Laws and the abolishing of the OC Priesthood as Judea/Jerusalem was their "Headquates", correct?. Thoughts?

Reve 9:11 and they are having on them a king, the messenger of the abyss, name to him to-Hebrew, Abaddon/abaddwn <3>, and in the greecian name he is having Destroyer/Ruiner/apo-lluwn <623>.

Luke 21:28 Beginning yet to be becoming these-things, up-bend ye!, and lift up! the heads of ye, thru-that is nearing the Loosing/apo-lutrwsiV <629> of ye

 

[GW]

little lamb,

the "great city" of revelation is apostate Jerusalem (Rev 11:8), "where the Lord Jesus was crucified."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

little lamb,

the "great city" of revelation is apostate Jerusalem (Rev 11:8), "where the Lord Jesus was crucified."

I agree.

Luke 23:28 Being-turned yet toward them, the Jesus said: "Daughters of-Jerusalem no be-lamenting/klaiete <2799> upon Me, moreover for yourselves be-lamenting/klaiete <2799> (5720) , and upon the children of ye.
29 That behold! Are coming Days in which they shall be declaring 'Blessed be ones-barren. and wombs be not generating, and breasts which not give-suck.
30 Then they shall be beginning to be saying to the Mountains: 'Be falling on us'!, and to the Hills 'Cover us'!

Reve 18:9 and shall be lamenting/klausontai <2799> (5695) and shall be wailing over Her the kings of the land, the ones with her fornicating and indulging, whenever they may be observing the smoke of the refining fire of Her

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Is there any way I can get a Mod to move this thread to the Christian Scriptures board as it seems it is not a popular thread on the Eschatology board. Thanks.

http://christianforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=804

 

[Torah613]

wow this is really offensive. Nice talking to you.

Yochanan

 

[Chickapee]

Hi Chick. We are already seated in the Heavenlies with YHWH and His Christ Jesus.
Here is another interesting verse. Luke 21:28. The greek word #622 is for loosing. What are the OC Judeans being "loosened" from and notice a form of that word is also used for the "destroyer" in Reve 9?

I believe it symbolizes being loosed from the OC Mosaic and Levitical Laws and the abolishing of the OC Priesthood as Judea/Jerusalem was their "Headquates", correct?. Thoughts?

Reve 9:11 and they are having on them a king, the messenger of the abyss, name to him to-Hebrew, Abaddon/abaddwn <3>, and in the greecian name he is having Destroyer/Ruiner/apo-lluwn <623>.

Luke 21:28 Beginning yet to be becoming these-things, up-bend ye!, and lift up! the heads of ye, thru-that is nearing the Loosing/apo-lutrwsiV <629> of ye

LITTLELAMB ! Yes , I do , its all over the place especially in Hebrews ,

and Paul mentions the CHANGE of priesthoods
i believe it is here , and to me its from night [light of the moon , moon to blood violence ]

to DAY Children of Light [mercy & grace knowing the Love of God through Jesus Christ to

day hear His Voice , and harden not your hearts, in the time of rebellion , turning the stones [ hearts to Bread ]
food for ALL , HIS CHRISTS body being a living sacrifice


with Love in Christ... C

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

 

[munchycrunchy]

The Great City. Surely it does state that spiritually it is called Sodom and Egypt, where our Lord was crucified. My understanding of it is as follows however.

In Revelation 18:4 it states, "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye not be partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." I state this because this is how I view the Great City. Take Revelation 17:18:

"And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

I put emphasis on "woman" here. Woman to me is referring to "harlot". If we go on to Revelation 3:17:

"Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:"

This is speaking of the church of Laodicea. So this, this is what I view the Great City as symbolically. I see it as Babylon. It states "spiritually Sodom and Egypt", but that doesn't mean that it also isn't representing something else. Such as in Isaiah 1:21 where it states the faithful city has become a harlot. Just my understanding of said city.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

These verse also appear to harmonize quite nicely:

Jeremiah 51:8 Suddenly she-falls, Babel, and she is being broken howl ye! over her, take ye balm! for her pain, perhaps she shall be healed. [Reve 14:8, Reve 18]

Matt 7:26 And all the one hearing of Me the words, these, and no doing them shall be likened to a man, stupid/foolish, who-any builds of him the House upon the sand. 25 And descended the rains and the streams, and blow the winds, and they toward-strike the House, that, and she falls and was the fall of her great. [Revelation 14:8]

Reve 14:8 And another messenger, second-one, follows saying "she falls, she falls, Babylon the Great, the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Thanks to all for your views. Any more views on that Great City? I also put up a thread here on it:

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7263327&page=2
Early ECFs and Queen/Babylon in Revelation

 

[Bible2]

LittleLambofJesus posted in message #4:

Is Jesus indentifying that "Great City" in Revelation
in Luke 19:41? If not, why not. Thanks.

Luke 19:41 And as He nears, beholding the City and He
laments/eklausen <2799> (5656) on Her, 42 saying,
"That if thou-knew, and thou, even indeed in the day,
this, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was Hid
from thy eyes. 43 That shall be arriving days upon
thee, and thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/
caraka <5482> to thee, and shall be encompassing
thee, and pressing thee every which place.

Reve 18:19 and they casted dust upon the heads of
them, and were crying out, lamenting/klaionteV <2799>
(5723) and mourning, saying, "Woe, woe, the City the
Great! in which are rich all the ones having the
ships in the sea , out of the preciousness of Her to
one hour she was desolated"

Jerusalem could very well be included in the
figurative "great city" of Revelation 18:19, but so
could all the other cities of the world which will
be destroyed in the coming tribulation by Lucifer:

"That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed
the cities thereof ..." (Isaiah 14:17).

For the figurative "great city" of Revelation 18:19
could represent man's civilization as a whole, in all
its political (Revelation 17:18), religious
(Revelation 18:24), and economic (Revelation 18:11)
manifestations.

Jerusalem could be the epitome, the "crowning city"
(cf. Isaiah 23:8), of man's religious systems (compare
Revelation 18:24 with Matthew 23:35), while today
Washington D.C. could be the epitome, the "crowning
city", of man's political systems; and New York City
could be the epitome, the "crowning city", of man's
economic systems. In the future, God allowing Lucifer
to destroy these three cities (not to mention many
others) could serve as an example to the world that
God cares nothing for man's vaunted systems of
religion, politics, or economics, just as God's
allowing ancient Tyre, the "crowning city" (Isaiah
23:8), to be destroyed served as an example to the
ancient world that God could bring down any prideful
construct of man, no matter how glorious it seemed:
"The LORD of hosts hath purposed it, to stain the
pride of all glory, and to bring into contempt all
the honourable of the earth" (Isaiah 23:9).

In fact, some of the imagery regarding the destruction
of figurative "Babylon" in Revelation 18 is similar
to the imagery in Ezekiel 27 regarding the destruction
of ancient Tyre (cf. Revelation 18:17-19 and Ezekiel
27:29-34).

---

When we Christians see the future destruction of the
cities of the world during the coming tribulation, we
must remember the following:

"... here have we no continuing city, but we seek one
to come" (Hebrews 13:14), just as Abraham "looked for
a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker
is God" (Hebrews 11:10), and just as all the saints of
old "confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims
on the earth. For they that say such things declare
plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they
had been mindful of that country from whence they came
out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
But now they desire a better country, that is, an
heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called
their God: for he hath prepared for them a city"
(Hebrews 11:13-16).

This heavenly city prepared for us, in which Jesus
has prepared a place for us (John 14:2-3), is none
other than God the Father's house, His tabernacle,
the heavenly city of New Jerusalem, in which the
Father will descend to a new earth (Revelation
21:1-2, after the millennium and subsequent events
of Revelation 20:7-15), to dwell with us on the new
earth (Revelation 21:3).

So we mustn't lose hope when any city of this world
is completely destroyed in the future, in the coming
tribulation, but must keep our hope firmly stayed
upon the one and only eternal city of New Jerusalem
in heaven.

"While we look not at the things which are seen, but
at the things which are not seen: for the things
which are seen are temporal; but the things which are
not seen are eternal (2 Corinthians 4:18).

"Set your affection on things above, not on things on
the earth" (Colossians 3:2).

"Jerusalem which is above ..." (Galatians 4:26).

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So we mustn't lose hope when any city of this world
is completely destroyed in the future, in the coming
tribulation, but must keep our hope firmly stayed
upon the one and only eternal city of New Jerusalem
in heaven.

"While we look not at the things which are seen, but
at the things which are not seen: for the things
which are seen are temporal; but the things which are
not seen are eternal (2 Corinthians 4:18).

"Set your affection on things above, not on things on
the earth" (Colossians 3:2).

"Jerusalem which is above ..." (Galatians 4:26).

Greetings and good post. If as Paul says our Jerusalem is above, what need of there for a Jerusalem below, especially for the OC Jews/Israelites?

And from what I can see, there is only One Great City in Revelation burning forever not a multitude of them

Matt 24:30 "Then shall be appearing the sign of the Son of the Man in heaven, and then shall be wailing/koyontai <2875> (5695), all the Tribes of the land and they will shall be seeing the Son of the Man coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and glory, much.

Reve 18:9 and shall be lamenting and shall be wailing/koyontai <2875> (5695) over Her the kings of the land, the ones with her fornicating and indulging, whenever they may be observing the smoke of the fireing/purwsei <4451> of Her

Reve 19:3 and a second time They have declared "Hallelujah and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages"

 

[Bible2]

LittleLambofJesus posted in message #19:

If as Paul says our Jerusalem is above, what need of
there for a Jerusalem below, especially for the OC
Jews/Israelites?

The need for the Jerusalem below is twofold. First,
there is a need for Jerusalem to continue to exist
so that the Orthodox Jews can fulfill the scriptures
by rebuilding a temple there and restarting the
Mosaic animal sacrifices before it for two or three
years before the Antichrist stops those sacrifices
and sits in the temple and proclaims himself God
(Daniel 11:31,36, 9:27; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). Then,
Jerusalem has to continue to exist after that so that
the Antichrist can make one last attack on the Jews
there right before Jesus returns to the earth
(Zechariah 14:2-4).

Second, there is a need for Jerusalem below to
continue to exist so that the returned Jesus can then
fulfill all of the scriptures regarding Jerusalem in
the millennium (e.g. Zechariah 14:8-21, Micah 4:2).

But once the millennium and subsequent events are over
(Revelation 20:7-11), there will no longer be any need
for Jerusalem below to continue to exist, just as
there will no longer be any need for the current
heaven and earth to exist, for God will create a new
heaven and a new earth (Revelation 21:1), and the
heavenly city of New Jerusalem will then descend to
the new earth (Revelation 21:2-3), so that,
ultimately, Jerusalem above will become the new
Jerusalem below on the earth.

LittleLambofJesus posted in message #19:

... there is only One Great City in Revelation
burning forever not a multitude of them

That's right, the figurative city of "Babylon" will
burn forever (Revelation 19:3), which could come to
represent all of the unsaved burning forever in the
lake of fire (Revelation 14:10-11, 20:10,15, 21:8,
Matthew 25:41,46, Mark 9:45-46).

But during the tribulation Satan will destroy many
different cities of the world:

"That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed
the cities thereof" (Isaiah 14:17).

So we really should be prepared to flee out of the
cities and into wilderness/mountain places during the
coming tribulation:

"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she
hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed
her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days"
(Revelation 12:6).

"Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the
mountains" (Matthew 24:16).

"... they that escape of them shall escape, and shall
be on the mountains" (Ezekiel 7:16).

But so we don't starve and freeze to death when we
get out there, we should go out there before the
tribulation starts and bury plastic tubs filled with
canned food and water-containers and thermal sleeping
bags and plastic tarps and everything else that we'll
need to survive out in the wilderness/mountains until
Jesus returns.