Do not be afraid....fear the Lord

[Monna]

The Lord Jesus said that "if you love Me you'll obey my commands." So love for the Lord is synonymous with revering the Lord.

Yagna,
I sometimes get an image of judgement day. We're standing there waiting for the Lord to come in to begin his assessment of our lives.
He enters. The sight of him is so awesome, so overwhelmingly bright, so powerful, that he doesn't need to say a word - I totally condemn myself in seeing myself in contrast to him. "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." I am overcome by my insignificance, my unsightliness- He is awesome, I am awful. I know where I belong before he opens his mouth.

When his closest friend saw him in his vision in the beginning of Revelation, he knew who he was, and it was the one he loved, but he still fell down as if dead. There was something of a different level of reality. I love how he writes "I turned to see the voice." That's how solid, how substantial the sound was. Like standing at the bottom of Victoria Falls in the height of the rainy season! Wow!

Perhaps this is the level of awe that we need to begin to make us take notice, learn and grow in wisdom.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If you look up fear in the thesaurus you will find an amazing number of words that are synonyms. This suggests that this emotion is not only universal, but very complex and difficult to pin down.

At one level the emotion of fear is similar in purpose to pain, it is there in us to keep us alive. But we all know that there are huge differences in the nature and level of fear we experience - from being 'subconsciously anxious' to 'terrified.'

This morning I read this verse and it made me pause.
Exodus 20:20
Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning.”

The usual explanation I have been told, of the phrase "fear God" is that it means we should respect him. This doesn't seem adequate to me. There are lots of people I respect, but whom I don't fear. And I would never use the word fear in relation to them.

I think I understand the first sentence "Do not be afraid." It's the second use of the word for which I need a deeper understanding. The scriptures say "The fear of the Lord in the beginning of knowledge." (Proverbs 1:7) But it also says in 1 John 4:18 "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." and our relationship with the Father is one of love. Furthermore, I have been encouraged to stop sinning "because I love the Lord, who died for me to release me from the guilt and punishment of sin." This seems the opposite to "the fear of God will... keep you from sinning."

So I have two basic questions:
1) Does the original Hebrew in this verse use two different words, or the same one. and if two, what are the differences, what do they imply?
2) Can someone give me a more fitting synonym or explanation for the second use of the English word 'fear' in Exodus 20:20 and other verses admonitioning us to "fear the Lord.?"

It starts off as fear until you obey God. For we perfect the love of God in our lives by keeping His Word (1 John 2:5). Fearing Jesus is related with fearing men that can kill the body in Matthew 10:28. So yes. Fear means fear. Don't listen to others who say it means something else.

 

[Monna]

Fear means fear. Don't listen to others who say it means something else.

OK Jason. I hear you.
Can you explain what Moses meant then when he said "Do not be afraid?"

Or do you think the whole verse should read something like "Folks, don't be afraid. God has come to test you ... be terrified out of your sinfulness instead!"?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

OK Jason. I hear you.
Can you explain what Moses meant then when he said "Do not be afraid?"

Or do you think the whole verse should read something like "Folks, don't be afraid. God has come to test you ... be terrified out of your sinfulness instead!"?

Moses was telling them not to fear for their physical lives in hearing God. For they were afraid that they would die. Then Moses told them to fear God so that they will not sin. So they were using the fear of God in the wrong way. But both mentions of the emotion of fear are still the same, though. It was their use of that fear that was misdirected.

 

[Penny Feeley]

Thank you Penny, I think that's a good one. And I like it.

But for some of us it is linked to Reverend, reminding of us people "of the cloth" who are really not worthy of reverence. So how would you define 'reverence?' When you were little you cuddled with your mom, no doubt. And even today, you could give either of your parents a good hug. Does your view of reverence allow real closeness? For some, like orthodox Jews, reverence for God might lead them to hesitate to even say His name.

As soon as I wrote down reverence I had a feeling you would think of Reverend which most of us do. I had just read off a kjv website " God alone has a name worthy of reverence" Also Psalm 111.9.
I don't know why in a church the name Reverend is used for a title. That would be great if someone can answer that. Within the past few years I've been more involved in Reading God's word. Because I do reverence God and I know he loves me because he created me. I also wanted to know what happens to me when I die. That is such a scary thought to not know what happens to your soul. He gave us all gifts that we can use in society to make it a better place. It's just up to us whether we use the gifts or not.
I'm very new at the Forum and I know that there is a way to quote verses I just haven't figured it out. I do apologize for that so my point might not come across so easily. I do intend on studying other faiths because I cannot comment on what I don't know.

 

[Introverted1293]

If you look up fear in the thesaurus you will find an amazing number of words that are synonyms. This suggests that this emotion is not only universal, but very complex and difficult to pin down.

At one level the emotion of fear is similar in purpose to pain, it is there in us to keep us alive. But we all know that there are huge differences in the nature and level of fear we experience - from being 'subconsciously anxious' to 'terrified.'

This morning I read this verse and it made me pause.
Exodus 20:20
Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning.”

The usual explanation I have been told, of the phrase "fear God" is that it means we should respect him. This doesn't seem adequate to me. There are lots of people I respect, but whom I don't fear. And I would never use the word fear in relation to them.

I think I understand the first sentence "Do not be afraid." It's the second use of the word for which I need a deeper understanding. The scriptures say "The fear of the Lord in the beginning of knowledge." (Proverbs 1:7) But it also says in 1 John 4:18 "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." and our relationship with the Father is one of love. Furthermore, I have been encouraged to stop sinning "because I love the Lord, who died for me to release me from the guilt and punishment of sin." This seems the opposite to "the fear of God will... keep you from sinning."

So I have two basic questions:
1) Does the original Hebrew in this verse use two different words, or the same one. and if two, what are the differences, what do they imply?
2) Can someone give me a more fitting synonym or explanation for the second use of the English word 'fear' in Exodus 20:20 and other verses admonitioning us to "fear the Lord.?"

Well I personally believe it means actual fear as in being afraid of God. It is that fear that causes me to seek God.

 

[Monna]

I'm very new at the Forum and I know that there is a way to quote verses I just haven't figured it out. I do apologize for that so my point might not come across so easily.

Penny, you have absolutely no need to apologize! I thought your response was perfect. It was my mind that went farther...and now I know that you had similar thoughts. I still think reverence is a good word to use.

 

[Anguspure]

Yes, but is that fear as "terror" or fear as "nervousness bordering on excitement... don't wake the sleeping bear, or else...?"

Fear, as in the fear that one might get standing in front of a judge knowing that one is as guilty as sin. I think the bear is wide awake, see's everything and will judge everything.

 

[Blade]

Fear of the lord is not MANS meaning for fear. It means to respect and reverence.. so forth so on. God NEVER wants anyone to fear Him.. like man thinks. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. And I REJOICE I am there!...and yet.. fear

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I just cannot understand how people can think the word "fear" means "reverence" in Matthew 10:28. Such a thing makes no sense.

 

[mukk_in]

Yagna,
I sometimes get an image of judgement day. We're standing there waiting for the Lord to come in to begin his assessment of our lives.
He enters. The sight of him is so awesome, so overwhelmingly bright, so powerful, that he doesn't need to say a word - I totally condemn myself in seeing myself in contrast to him. "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." I am overcome by my insignificance, my unsightliness- He is awesome, I am awful. I know where I belong before he opens his mouth.

When his closest friend saw him in his vision in the beginning of Revelation, he knew who he was, and it was the one he loved, but he still fell down as if dead. There was something of a different level of reality. I love how he writes "I turned to see the voice." That's how solid, how substantial the sound was. Like standing at the bottom of Victoria Falls in the height of the rainy season! Wow!

Perhaps this is the level of awe that we need to begin to make us take notice, learn and grow in wisdom.

Indeed. But glory to God that we're judged through the Lord Jesus and His righteouness. Otherwise, none of us would have a chance. "Perfect love casts out all fear." "There's now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus." "When we see Him we'll be like Him." Peace in Christ .

 

[aiki]

Proverbs 1:7
7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

A craven fear of God as wrathful and terrible Judge of the wicked has its place in bringing sinners to repentance and faith in Christ. But this fear ought to be abandoned (or transformed) as the sinner receives the gift of salvation offered to him in Jesus and in so doing steps out from under the condemnation and wrath of God. Spiritual regeneration brings a new understanding of God as one's loving and gracious Heavenly Father and this ought to mature the craven fear of God as Judge into the reverential awe of a grateful, and admiring, and loving child. Such "fear" is not at odds with the love we are called to have for our Maker, but establishes the proper context or dynamic within which we fellowship with Him.

 

[Neogaia777]

If you look up fear in the thesaurus you will find an amazing number of words that are synonyms. This suggests that this emotion is not only universal, but very complex and difficult to pin down.

At one level the emotion of fear is similar in purpose to pain, it is there in us to keep us alive. But we all know that there are huge differences in the nature and level of fear we experience - from being 'subconsciously anxious' to 'terrified.'

This morning I read this verse and it made me pause.
Exodus 20:20
Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning.”

The usual explanation I have been told, of the phrase "fear God" is that it means we should respect him. This doesn't seem adequate to me. There are lots of people I respect, but whom I don't fear. And I would never use the word fear in relation to them.

I think I understand the first sentence "Do not be afraid." It's the second use of the word for which I need a deeper understanding. The scriptures say "The fear of the Lord in the beginning of knowledge." (Proverbs 1:7) But it also says in 1 John 4:18 "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." and our relationship with the Father is one of love. Furthermore, I have been encouraged to stop sinning "because I love the Lord, who died for me to release me from the guilt and punishment of sin." This seems the opposite to "the fear of God will... keep you from sinning."

So I have two basic questions:
1) Does the original Hebrew in this verse use two different words, or the same one. and if two, what are the differences, what do they imply?
2) Can someone give me a more fitting synonym or explanation for the second use of the English word 'fear' in Exodus 20:20 and other verses admonitioning us to "fear the Lord.?"

It takes a long time to be perfected in Love, the journey there is wise when you fear God in a reverential way, until you get closer to him, and closer to him, and closer to him, until your made perfect in love with him, then you fear no longer...

We fear God because of our sinful state also, because we do bad, in the process of getting closer, and closer, and closer to God incrementally, we find ourselves giving up and not doing sins as much or as often incrementally, till we are made perfect in Love, and when you are perfect in Love, the thought of sin, does not even enter your mind anymore, you not only stop sinning, but you stop thinking about sinning, in time... Oh, and you must have the correct view of love too, Godly love, and know that Godly love has nothing to do with sexual desire(s) at all...

Fear of God can be tutor, it can teach you in other words, so it wise to be in fear, if you can learn that about the fear, and use it to grow, develop, and mature, (in God's way, as he defines it), fear can actually help you do that much more rapidly than if one does not fear God, or anyone or anything at all...

Until you no longer need it anymore, and the fear progressively gets less and less as you get closer to him (God) and get use to being close to and with him...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Someone who has never really had a reason to fear much in their lives, or don't seem to fear at all, if there genuinely not fearing (anything) and have not really feared hardly anything at all in their lives, when they get to be an adult, their usually a very cocky, selfish, self-centered, egotistical and very arrogant, and thinking they know everything, when, in truth, if they've basically never feared, then they know "nothing at all" really...

It is only when they are given something to fear, that they really begin to grow and mature and know, not otherwise...

 

[Monna]

I just cannot understand how people can think the word "fear" means "reverence" in Matthew 10:28. Such a thing makes no sense.

I take it that you, Jason, read this verse to mean that the one who can destroy both soul and body in hell is God. And I have seen some translations that make it more explicitly "God." Most however do not, leaving it only as 'the one' or 'he.'

When I read it in context, and especially with verse 30, it has always been my assumption that "the One" here is the devil. But I admit that I could be wrong and so could those who taught me this over many years. Perhaps there is someone reading this thread that can elucidate more on the aramaic or hebrew or greek words used here, to clarify. If it is God, as you obviously feel, we have the same kind of contrast as in Exodus 20:20 but in reverse order (discounting the first "do not be afraid" in vs 28 that seems to be refering to 'people')... Be afraid of God who can....(vs 28); So don't be afraid, you are worth more..[presumably to God] (vs 30). Are the two words for fear the same here? how should we understand the contrast - remember this is presented as one conversation to one group of people, the Lord's disciples before he sends them out on a special mission. Yet he seems to be saying one thing one moment, then the opposite the next. Being slow in the head, I am confused.

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows. (Matt.10 28-30)

 

[Monna]

It is only when they are given something to fear, that they really begin to grow and mature and know, not otherwise...

like, you cannot know joy if you haven't known sorrow?

(Reminds me of the story "Hey John, why are you beating your head against the wall?" "Because it feels to good when I stop.") (Neogaia, I am not trying to mock or even challenge what you say, because I think there is a lot to it, but...)

I have read of people who grew up with such fear of their father, that they were not able to accept God as a father figure.

God uses many different ways to draw people to himself. And he knows the way that will work best with each individual. For some fear has worked, for others fear has had the opposite effect. One testimony I heard recently showed how the path to salvation started without any thought of God, but a determination to be thankful for a few specific things - which felt so good, that the person began to practice expressing gratitude, brought this into the home...and one step of gratitude led to another and then to God.

Sometimes I think we mess up this individualised work of God by trying to find and apply a set "model" to teach and use in witnessing, regardless of who our target is (and seeing people as "our target" may be part of the problem) and never listening to either where the individual is at, nor to the Holy Spirit's guidance in the specific instance.

There are many kinds of fear (at least in my experience), many circumstances within which it is experienced. Not all of them have positive and constructive effects on growth and maturity, and each of us may react differently in the same fearful circumstances. Children who have grown up with the fear of a brutal parent, may grow into men and women who in turn becomes brutal parents, using fear as a tool to maintain control. Others may grow from the same situation into adults who swing to the opposite extreme with their children, but never being able to stand up for something they believe in "for fear of...."

 

[Monna]

Fear of God can be tutor, it can teach you in other words, so it wise to be in fear, if you can learn that about the fear, and use it to grow, develop, and mature, (in God's way, as he defines it), fear can actually help you do that much more rapidly than if one does not fear God, or anyone or anything at all...

Here I agree with you Neogaia, though you see I added my own emphases. For some people there is a very big 'if' involved here. Do you have any tips on how to help people to learn the constructive use of fear, when they have come out of some pretty dreadful backgrounds? becoming either monsters themselves or totally passive and apathetic as a result?

 

[Neogaia777]

Here I agree with you Neogaia, though you see I added my own emphases. For some people there is a very big 'if' involved here. Do you have any tips on how to help people to learn the constructive use of fear, when they have come out of some pretty dreadful backgrounds? becoming either monsters themselves or totally passive and apathetic as a result?

Without fear their can be no courage... (movie Eragon)

It can kinda be like the effect of scary movie, or thriller, and it can excite you and give you energy that you can focus or apply to something...

If you kind of view the fear as challenge, and something you battle, you can get a special thrill out of that/those battles...

When someone says, to someone who maybe pulled a elaborate trick on them and scared them, "I about had a heart attack... and... It was the "best thing ever"... Then thanks the ones who pulled the prank (episode of Reba)...

I don't know, but, I have to deal with fear, and this has helped me "use it"...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Without fear their can be no courage... (movie Eragon)

It can kinda be like the effect of scary movie, or thriller, and it can excite you and give you energy that you can focus or apply to something...

If you kind of view the fear as challenge, and something you battle, you can get a special thrill out of that/those battles...

When someone says, to someone who maybe pulled a elaborate trick on them and scared them, "I about had a heart attack... and... It was the "best thing ever"... Then thanks the ones who pulled the prank (episode of Reba)...

I don't know, but, I have to deal with fear, and this has helped me "use it"...

God Bless!

It can be a shot of adrenaline, which can be refocused into something good...