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The question is if it is true.This is a conspiracy theory.
The Torah and the Gospel aren't God's "words".Hi Joyousperson,
I am familiar with the verses you posted. If we take away what is written in parenthesis, and stick with just what the Qur'an states, we really see absolutely no clear evidence that the Qur'an suggests that the Torah or the Gospel were themselves altered. And that would be ridiculous, since the Qur'an keep repeating that no one can alter Allah's words, that Allah protects His words.
The Quran confirms the revelation given to Moses (alaihi Salam) - not the texts written about him, and the Gospel, not GospelS, but GospeL.The Quran did confirm the OT and Gospels existed during Muhammad's time, but there is no confirmation from the Quran, those OT and Gospels then are the same as the present ones which were corrupted somehow along the way.
The Quran confirms the revelation given to Moses (alaihi Salam) - not the texts written about him, and the Gospel, not GospelS, but GospeL.
You are creating a slander and libel on me.Once again, Muslims don't interpret Islam or the Qur'an as you do. What you are doing is legitimizing a violent sect of Islam that is rejected by the vast majority of the world's Muslims. What's motivating you to push a such a violent and distorted interpretation of Islam and what exactly are you hoping to accomplish?
So what?? Your point is off topic.And in that book Hitler praises a prominent figure in the Protestant Reformation.
Among them must be counted the great warriors in this world who, though not understood by the present, are nevertheless prepared to carry the fight for their ideas and ideals to their end. They are the men who some day will be closest to the heart of the people; it almost seems as though every individual feels the duty of compensating in the past for the sins which the present once committed against the great. Their life and work are followed with admiring gratitude and emotion, and especially in days of gloom they have the power to raise up broken hearts and despairing souls.
To them belong, not only the truly great statesmen, but all other great reformers as well. Beside Frederick the Great stands Martin Luther as well as Richard Wagner. -- Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf Volume One, Chapter VIII
Noted those interesting points re foreign words and grammar you mentioned.Hi Joyousperson,
I am familiar with the verses you posted. If we take away what is written in parenthesis, and stick with just what the Qur'an states, we really see absolutely no clear evidence that the Qur'an suggests that the Torah or the Gospel were themselves altered. And that would be ridiculous, since the Qur'an keep repeating that no one can alter Allah's words, that Allah protects His words.
Rather, we see that the Jews write books with their hands and sell them, which is historically accurate. That is why we have apocryphal and traditions and legendary/mythical books written by those professing to be Jews or Christians. Some of these books were readily available during the time of Muhammad.
Unfortunately, Muhammad could not tell truth from fiction when he gave Qur'anic revelations. Anyone living at that time could see that Muhammad was just repeating myths and legends that would be told during Muhammad's day.
Qur'an 25:5
And they say: “Tales of the ancients, which he has caused to be written: and they are dictated before him morning and evening.”
Qur'an 8:31 And when OUR verses are recited to them, they say, `We have heard. If we wished we could certainly say the like of it. This is nothing but mere tales of the ancients'.
Qur'an 16:24 And when it is said unto them: What hath your Lord revealed? they say: (Mere) fables of the men of old...
Qur'an 68:15 That, when Our revelations are recited unto him, he saith: Mere fables of the men of old.
Qur'an 83:13 Who, when thou readest unto him Our revelations, saith: (Mere) fables of the men of old.
Qur'an 16:103-104
“We know indeed that they say “It is a man that teaches him.” The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notable foreign while this is Arabic pure and clear. Those who believe not in the Signs of Allah, Allah will not guide them and theirs will be a grievous Penalty.” (Yusef Ali’s translation)
Interesting that Allah's eternal book, the Qur'an contains about 35% foreign words, not Arabic - vocabulary that was adopted into the Arabic language of the Qur’an as words derived from Aramaic, Syriac, Ethiopian, Hebrew, Greek, and other languages, especially words used from Jewish-Christian tradition. Besides this, the Quran includes many passages modified from biblical and extra-biblical texts - the Talmud, mythical Christian tales, and from Syrian legends - all of which were widely circulated in Mecca and the Middle East during the time of Muhammad.
Muhammad also made up, or changed, words and whole verses copied from the Hebrew Scriptures into the Quran. Even the word “Quran” is a Syrian word meaning “text.”
Besides that, many grammatical errors exist in the perfect word for word recitation of Allah's eternal word - the Quran. A few major ones are as follows:
•In Quran 2:177, there are actually FIVE grammatical errors in this verse alone!
'aaman should read tu'minuu
'aata shoud be tu'tuu
'aqaama should be tuqimuu
'aata shoud be tu'tuu
saabiriina should be saabiruuna
•The yakuun in 3:59 should read kana
•The muqiimiin in 4:162 should read muqiimuun
•The Saabi'uuna in 5:69 should read Saabi'iina
•The qaribun in 7:56 should read qaribah
•The asbatan in 7:160 should read sebtan
•The 'asarru in 21:3 should read 'asarra
•The 'ikhtasamuu in 22:19 should read 'ikhtasamaa
•The ta'e'een in 41:11 should read be ta'e'atain
•The 'eq-tatalu in 49:9 should read 'eqtatalata
•The 'akun in 63:10 should read 'akuuna
•The ma in 91:5 should read man
•The haazaani in 20:63 should read haazayn
Regarding the Bible, Muhammad took all the important names: Abraham (rendered into Arabic as Ibrahim), Moses (Musa), Joseph (Yusuf), Ishmael (Ismail) etc. He took many of the customs, such as the weekly Sabbath day, the Holy Book or written Scripture, forswearing of idolatry, and the concept of monotheism, from the Christians and Jews who at that time constituted a large proportion of the population of Arabia.
To say that Jews or Christians actually altered the manuscript text, that would be impossible. If you alter even one word in any one manuscript in the NT, there are at least 20,000 others to compare to all over the known world. As regards the OT writings, we have books of the OT found among the Dead Sea Scrolls and other such caves showing the accuracy of the OT Scriptures we have today with minor differences, mostly grammatical.
By comparing manuscripts we can determine fraudulent and spurious writings from the real thing.
Unfortunately for the Muslims, their own writings state that chapters and verses were lost, such as the chapter on stoning, and the chapter on breast feeding adult men.
To add to that, those closest to Muhammad were at odds as to which Qur'anic verses were authentic and which were added and which were lost.
Then we have all the manuscripts of the Qur'an that were conveniently burned up by Caliph Uthman after creating a copy from them.
Fortunately not all the manuscripts were burned, and we have the oldest ones in libraries around the world. After being studied and reviewed, we see thousands of variants and differences between them, some very significant.
The Quran confirms the revelation given to Moses (alaihi Salam) - not the texts written about him, and the Gospel, not GospelS, but GospeL.
Joyousperson said: ↑
The Quran did confirm the OT and Gospels existed during Muhammad's time, but there is no confirmation from the Quran, those OT and Gospels then are the same as the present ones which were corrupted somehow along the way.
It's pretty relevant that you use completely wrong words. There is no such thing in the Qur'an as an old testament or the Gospels. There is Torah, the revelation given to Moses (alaihi salam), and the Gospel, the revelation given to Isa (alaihi salam). Naturally the revelation given to Moses (alaihi salam) doesn't include anything not received by him such as stories about him or anything regarding after his death. And the revelation to Isa (alaihi salam) doesn't include anything written about Isa (alaihi salam), but only what he SAID and what is TRUE from those. Which all reduces the worth of the bible as a whole to almost nothing in Islam.Whether Gospel or Gospels [refer to the 4] is not a significant issue.
I was only using the OT and Gospels in general.It's pretty relevant that you use completely wrong words. There is no such thing in the Qur'an as an old testament or the Gospels. There is Torah, the revelation given to Moses (alaihi salam), and the Gospel, the revelation given to Isa (alaihi salam).
Naturally the revelation given to Moses (alaihi salam) doesn't include anything not received by him such as stories about him or anything regarding after his death. And the revelation to Isa (alaihi salam) doesn't include anything written about Isa (alaihi salam), but only what he SAID and what is TRUE from those. Which all reduces the worth of the bible as a whole to almost nothing in Islam.
That I agree that is the view of the Quran in the later Medinian verses and Muslims, but note this refer to the present Bible in the hands of the Christians at present. The Quran claimed they are not the original versions in totality [100%] sent to Moses and Isa from Allah, thus are corrupted versions.Which all reduces the worth of the bible as a whole to almost nothing in Islam.
Noted those interesting points re foreign words and grammar you mentioned.
Re the alteration, it is stated in the Quran the Jews did alter the original Torah from Allah.
The Quran claimed the Jews were sent a Torah from Allah, but the early Jews deliberately 'hide' certain verses, thus the Torah that were supposedly transmitted to the present Jews is the corrupted version.
The Quran did assert the holy texts from Allah cannot be changed, but then the Jews deliberately disobeyed Allah's command and hide/conceal thus omitted certain verses in the original Torah sent by Allah. This is why the Jews had incurred Allah's wrath as represented in many verses in the Quran.
Obviously the above scenario has nothing to do with a God and the original Torah of the Jews, but they are all created in the Quran by Muhammad to justify his claim as a prophet [in truth, a false prophet].
Here are two of the verses among the others above;
40. Or say ye [Jews and Christians] that Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes were Jews or Christians? Say [Muhammad]: Do ye [Jews and Christians] know best, or doth Allah? And who is more unjust than he [the Jews] who hideth [KTM: katama] a testimony which he hath received from Allah? Allah is not unaware of what ye [Jews and Christians] do. 2 140
146. Those [proto-Muslims] unto whom We gave the Scripture recognize (this revelation) [Quran] as they recognize their sons. But lo! a party of them [Jews of old] knowingly conceal [KTM: layaktumūna] the truth. 2 146
I deleted some in [] but the rest are relevant.
I believe it is obvious the Quranic verses above claimed the Jews "hide" and "conceal" the critical verses from the original Torah which is relevant to confirm Muhammad as the messiah or prophet.
The above is the reason why the Jews are the most condemned people in the Quran and in reality many have been killed for the above underlying reason. The Jews in the Quran were dehumanized as pigs, ass, and other derogatory names.
And the hatred for the Jews is immortalized in verse 1:7 that is repeated by all Muslims 17 times a day.
1:7 The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.In Quran approved by the Saudi Government, it is explicitly stated;
1:7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).Even if "Jews" is not stated in 1:7, it is very obvious in the context of the whole Quran and most clerics would have mentioned it to their members on the side.
That is the reason why the Jews are the most hated group of people by the Muslims as per command from Allah in the Quran.
Hi Joyousperson,
Thank you kindly for your reply.
You wrote:
<<
The Quran claimed the Jews were sent a Torah from Allah, but the early Jews deliberately 'hide' certain verses, thus the Torah that were supposedly transmitted to the present Jews is the corrupted version.
>>
setst RE: It seems to me that you are taking a big leap of logic (or leap of faith) to assume that, because the Jews hide verses, means that they physically corrupted their own Scriptures. I don't see that as being the intent that the Qur'an is trying to convey. The Qur'an never states that the Jews actually corrupted the manuscripts of the Torah - you have to imply that from personal bias. And Muhammad appears to have great respect for the Torah.
Qur'an 10:94 And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (Torah and Gospel) that was before thee...
Qur'an 5:43 But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) Law before them?- Therein is the (plain) command of God; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) people of faith.
Qur'an 5:68-69
68 Say: "O People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless you stand fast by the Torah, the Gospel and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord.
69 If only they had stood fast by the Torah, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: But many of them follow a course that is evil.
Qur'an 7:159 Of the people of Moses there is a party (of Jews) who guide and do justice in the light of truth.
Note: The Truth (the Torah) was still with them. While some of the Jews are accused of hiding verses, or speaking evil with their tongues, or writing books for money, the obvious conclusion from the WHOLE CONTEXT of the Qur'an is that the Torah was clearly considered Allah's Word, and reliable, un-corrupted and to be followed to receive favor from Allah. The Torah, therefore, still existed un-corrupted at the time of Muhammad.
And Muhammad certainly considered the Torah to be the genuine Torah that is to be relied upon.
Sunan Abu Dawud
Book 38, Number 4434
Narrated Abdullah Ibn Umar:
A group of Jews came and invited the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) to Quff. So he visited them in their school.
They said: AbulQasim, one of our men has committed fornication with a woman; so pronounce judgment upon them. They placed a cushion for the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) who sat on it and said: Bring the Torah. It was then brought. He then withdrew the cushion from beneath him and placed the Torah on it saying: I believed in thee and in Him Who revealed thee.
Considering the context, I believe the Qur'an makes very clear that the Torah, as well as the Gospel, is to be relied upon and followed to receive favor from Allah, and being Allah's Word, would be protected from corruption.
Qur'an 10:64 No change can there be in the Words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme triumph.
Any corruption mentioned, is not corruption of the Torah or Gospel; but rather, of those Jews or Christians who try to distort or hide verses from others - especially to those who did not know how to read Hebrew or Greek.
"setst RE: It seems to me that you are taking a big leap of logic (or leap of faith) to assume that, because the Jews hide verses, means that they physically corrupted their own Scriptures. I don't see that as being the intent that the Qur'an is trying to convey. The Qur'an never states that the Jews actually corrupted the manuscripts of the Torah - you have to imply that from personal bias. And Muhammad appears to have great respect for the Torah."As I had stated, when Muhammad appeared to have great respect for the Torah, it was only in the general sense like the following example;
Example: This is like the many leaders and authorities who merely presume in general, the Quran is a holy texts which has a peaceful message. Many Muslim leaders and parliamentarian even [ignorantly] swear upon the Quran to do their duty. But I believe you know how inherently evil and violent the Quran really is.In his early preaching days, Muhammad has to be an apologist to win over the Jews and Christians, thus he presented a general view with the presumption the Torah and Injeel are the same as the original version from Allah.
USING A QURAN TO SWEAR IN TO CONGRESS: A BRIEF HISTORY OF OATHS AND TEXTS
https://psmag.com/news/using-a-quran-to-swear-in-to-congress-a-brief-history-of-oaths-and-texts
But later after the Jews and Christian rejected his teachings, he condemned the Torah and Gospel as corrupted.
If the present Torah is not corrupted as Muhammad claimed and condemned, then the detailed Torah, in Muhammad's Medinian phase and now would contain the specific verses that affirm Muhammad as the messiah.
But there is no such verses that confirm Muhammad's messiah in the present Torah held by the Jews.
This prove Muhammad's condemnation of the Torah during his Medinian phase and at present as corrupted is correct.
As for the Injeel, the Quran condemned the Trinity and have a different interpretation of the crucifixion, the story of Mary and other stories from the Bible.
The present Gospel accept the Trinity and its version of same subject are different from the claims in the Quran. The Christians will claim their version of the Gospel is the true one.
In this case, if the Muslim insist their version is the true version as the original, then the Muslims will have to claim the Christian's version is corrupted.
It is obvious the present Muslims agree with Muhammad, the Jews and Christians has corrupted their holy books, this is why the present Muslims will not comply with the contentious elements in the present Torah and Injeel.
I believe my view is very objective based on evidence rather than guessing.
The exact term 'corrupted' is implied from the circumstances that the present version in the hand of the present Jews and Christians are different from the original version.Hi Joyousperson,
You write:
<<
But later after the Jews and Christian rejected his teachings, he condemned the Torah and Gospel as corrupted.
>>
setst RE: You have given no example where the Qur'an or Muhammad ever claimed the Torah or Gospel were corrupted. You have given no Qur'anic verses that state that Muhammad condemned the Torah and Gospel later on. NO such verse.
Yes, Muhammad did not believe what the Christians were saying about the Trinity, or what the Jews were saying. However, the Qur/an never claims that the Trinity is taught in the Gospel, or that what the Qur'an claims the Jews were falsely saying.
Remember, Muhammad did not know how to read or write.
I believe Muhammad (the revelations of the Qur'an) clearly was not aware that the Trinity was expressed in the Christian Scriptures. I mean, Muhammad did not even know what the trinity doctrine was - he got it all wrong (Trinity = God, Jesus and Mary). Muhammad thought the Christians were making this all up.
I see no clear verses anywhere in the Qur'an or Hadith that states that the Jews or Christians corrupted their manuscripts of their Scriptures. Not even the early Muslim scholars believed the Christian Scriptures were corrupted. Such a teaching is expressed only by contemporary Muslims in order to explain away inconsistencies or contradictions between the Qur'an and the Bible.
The exact term 'corrupted' is implied from the circumstances that the present version in the hand of the present Jews and Christians are different from the original version.
Example, what is claimed by Muhammad of his prophesy as in the original version of the Torah is not present in the current version in the hands of the present Jews.
Muhammad was said to be illiterate, but he can listen and understand. Note his hearing the message from Angel Gabriel.
Thus Muhammad understood the idea the false Trinity from Allah [all knowing] via the revelation, e.g.
4:171. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His Word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" [God, Jesus, Mary -wrong concept of the Trinity]. Cease! (it is) better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that He [Allah] should have a son.The above is supposed to be Allah's words not Muhammad's words. [Muhammad was supposed to be a parrot].
Muhammad obviously has to trust the words from Allah via Angel Gabriel as the truth that the above were in the corrupted gospel of the later Christians.
Thus when the Christians claimed otherwise from the above, Muhammad has to insist the Christians' version is the corrupted version while what he heard from Allah is the true one [it has to be regardless].
How so? What I said about you in that post is true.You are creating a slander and libel on me.
I haven't ever seen where you have done this, nor have I ever suggested that you have.Where did I ever assert I agree with and condone the evil and violent acts by any Muslim, group, sect or school of thought of Islam.??
No. What you are doing is counterproductive to reducing and/or eliminating violent Islamic extremism. You are highlighting the ethos of evil and violence that is inherent within Islamic extremism and sects such as Wahhabism, not the religion of Islam that almost every Muslim on the planet follows and trying to convince people that these perverted interpretations of Islam are true Islam. There are well over a billion Muslims in this world young and old alike that will tell you what you are posting on this forum is wrong about what Islam teaches and what they believe. Do you really believe that going against the grain is going to be productive?I have already posted above, my main point is to highlight the ethos of evil and violent that is inherent within Islam as within the 6236 verses of the Quran - the core and final authority of Islam.
It is from the above fact that we will be able to resolve and eliminated all Islamic-related evil and violent acts in the future.
You're the one who brought up Mein Kampf, I was only responding to your post.So what?? Your point is off topic.
How so? What I said about you in that post is true.
Muslims don't interpret Islam or the Qur'an as you do and you are legitimizing a violent sect of Islam that is rejected by the vast majority of the world's Muslims.
I haven't ever seen where you have done this, nor have I ever suggested that you have.
No. What you are doing is counterproductive to reducing and/or eliminating violent Islamic extremism. You are highlighting the ethos of evil and violence that is inherent within Islamic extremism and sects such as Wahhabism, not the religion of Islam that almost every Muslim on the planet follows and trying to convince people that these perverted interpretations of Islam are true Islam. There are well over a billion Muslims in this world young and old alike that will tell you what you are posting on this forum is wrong about what Islam teaches and what they believe. Do you really believe that going against the grain is going to be productive?
For the sake of argument, let's say you are 100% correct in what you are saying here. You're certainly not, but let's just say that you are for a moment. What good will come from trying to convince the greater than 90% of the world's Muslim population that currently reject the extremist narrative and who are currently living peacefully among their non-Muslim neighbors around the world that the Qur'an commands all Muslims to hate non-Muslims, not to be friends with non-Muslims, that it's OK to kill non-Muslims under the most vague conditions, that Islam is to be spread through violent jihad, and if they do kill a non-Muslim they will be guaranteed salvation and be rewarded in paradise?
Why would anyone even want to teach such an extreme interpretation of Islam or post this nonsense on a public forum?
Wouldn't it be much easier to try and convince the less than 10% of Muslims who adhere to the extremist teachings of Islam and the 1/0th of 1% of those who proclaim to be Muslims who are actively participating in violent jihad that they are wrong about what Islam teaches, rather than try to convince the greater than 90% of Muslims who currently reject the extremist interpretation of Islam that they are the ones who are wrong?
You are obviously putting a whole lot of time and energy into promoting this violent interpretation of Islam not only on this forum, but many others as well. You keep repeating the same content, often word for word, in multiple threads and on multiple online forums. In fact, every thread you have started since joining this forum has the exact same content in one form or another. You have even managed to incorporate this narrative into the two or three threads you started with titles not related to Islam. This is the same MO you use on other forums as well. Why do you do this? These forums you are posting on are public and can be read by people all over the world. Your method isn't going to lead to peace in the world, it's only going to lead to more confusion, division, and hate.
You're the one who brought up Mein Kampf, I was only responding to your post.
There is no relation between Shari'a and terror and I'm pretty sure what you believe about Shari'a is not the same as that of Muslims. Shari'a is not much different than halakhah in Judaism or the magisterium found in Catholicism.You actually have to read the Qur'an and also Sharia Law. A huge number of Muslims around the world would like to see Sharia Law instituted even thought they are not actively involved in terror, although many do support it.
Islamic fundamentalists fail to put the Qur'an and other Islamic texts into textual and historical context. This is why greater than 90% of the world's Muslims reject the teachings of Islamic fundamentalism and have done so historically. It's much the same in Christianity where the majority of Christians reject the teachings of the extreme fundamental denominations.Wahhabism is a name given to that sect of Muslims who want to go back to practicing exactly what the Qur'an teaches. They are fundamentalists. Therefore the blame is not on the Wahhabists, but on the Qur'an and Sharia Law.
Right now greater than 90% of the world's Muslims interpret the Qur'an and what Muhammad taught differently than how you and the OP do. Most of these Muslims were born into Islam and have practiced it their entire lives and includes Islamic Scholars and clerics who have devoted their entire lives to knowing their religion, not a few hours, weeks, or months browsing the internet or skimming through Islamic texts. If anyone knows how to define Islam, it's Muslims.Islam is not defined by what individual Muslims may believe or not. Rather, Islam is founded on what the Qur'an and Muhammad actually taught.
Usually when someone feels their way of belief is being threatened they dig in even deeper to defend it. Very few Muslims have left Islam because of someone debating with them or by trying to teach them that it's a violent religion. People come to Christ because of Christ Himself and seeing Christ in others. As personal witnesses to Jesus Christ and the gospel, living our lives in a Christlike manor and treating others with a Christlike attitude is of upmost importance.The only benefit I see is that at least some will reject Islam once they see its true colors - its doctrine enshrined in Sharia Law. By so rejecting, they then have a window of opportunity to offer true salvation to them before they die without Christ. That alone may be worth the effort.
One of the greatest misunderstanding in discussing the issue of Islamic-based terror, evil and violent acts, is barking up the wrong tree, fire fighting and missing the critical root cause, thus allowing the problem to fester and grow.
In most cases [presumption all religions are peaceful], the attention is always on the terrorists themselves whom I believe are victims of an evil laden ideology.
Here is my argument;
A Muslim is a person who had entered into a covenant with Allah to comply with the covenanted terms as in the Quran [final authority of Islam] with support from the Ahadiths.
Note the following conditions surrounding who is a Muslim, his/her obligation and actions;
1. DNA wise ALL humans are embedded with an existential crisis,From the above, ALL humans are 'cursed' with an embedded existential crisis naturally and thus all will seek solutions to deal with the existential crisis.
2. The most effective strategy to deal with the existential crisis is at of a promise of salvation to soothe the existential pains with the assurance of eternal life.
3. To be assured of the promise of salvation, believers MUST enter into a covenant with God/Allah to comply with the stipulated covenanted terms in the holy texts.
4. The covenanted terms of the ideology of Islam contain loads of evil and violent elements, (evidence available) [in contrast while that of Christianity is purely pacifist.]
5. DNA wise ALL humans has the potential to commit evil and violent acts. [argument available]
6. Appx 20% of all humans are born with an active evil tendency [evidence available] who will be naturally drawn towards evil and violent elements and commit them.
7. Potentially, SOME of the 20% of all Muslims [300 million!!!] will likely commit evil and violence in alignment with their obligation to gain salvation. Note the seriousness of this number when even a lone wolf can create terrible terrors.
The majority take the religious or spiritual, where the Abrahamic followers [thus Muslims] has to enter into a covenant with their God to comply with the covenanted terms to gain salvation with eternal life.
It is very evident there are SOME [from a pool of 300 million!!] Muslims who had committed terrible terroristic and other forms of evil and violent acts.
Here is a crude stat but [even if reduced to 50% or 10% ] in essence is very valid to justify the above point;
However from the logical syllogism re point 1-6, it is very logical we cannot blame the Muslims who as vulnerable human beings are seeking salvation to deal with an inherent existential crisis.
Alternatively and in contrast where any one who had followed the Christianity path, they will NOT be influenced in any way to commit any evil or violent act since the overriding moral maxim of Christianity is purely pacifist in nature.
In the above case of evil and violent acts committed by SOME Muslims, we cannot primarily blame those Muslims.
The critical cause for the Muslims in committing terrible evil and violence is point 4, i.e. the ideology of Islam that contain loaded evil and evil elements that would compel and inspire SOME [from a pool of 300 million] to commit terrible evil and violent [in their eyes a divine duty] to secure their salvation and eternal life in paradise.
As a control point [in theory], if there is no Islam with the evil and violent element in its ideology, there will be no Islamic-based evil and violent terror at all. In fact there will be no purely religious driven evil and violent acts at all. This is because no other mainstream religion condone evil and violence in their ideology, the only exception is Islam.
Of course, those extremist Muslims and others who commit evil and violent acts must be accountable for their crimes but for humanity sake in seeking effective solutions, the primary blame should never be pointed at the extremist Muslims but the attention should be on the root cause, that is in the ideology of Islam. If we blame the extremist Muslims, then we are fire-fighting the symptoms rather than tackling the ultimate root cause.
Note there other factors in the above model which are the inherent existential crisis, the evil potential. But these are DNA based element thus difficult to control and change.
Affiliation with a religion is a serious emotional and psychological affair but it can be changed or modified for the better. There are many who have converted in and out of religions.
My point;
In any discussion of Islamic based evil and violent acts, we must differentiate the Muslims as human beings from the ideology of Islam [as ideas and beliefs].
(note the guilty Muslims must be accountable to the laws of the land)
Per the model above, we must not put the primary blame and direction attention at the Muslims and even extremist Muslims for the evil and violent acts they committed in the name of their religion.
The main attention and focus must be on the evil and violent elements within the ideology of Islam.
One problem is the ideology of Islam within the Quran [& supporting texts] is extremely difficult to grasp in its totality. Thus the first attention is to ensure the Quran and its essence is easily understood by all. This is a difficult task, but must be undertaken with an academic, objective and philosophical basis.
Views?
In some locations it does apply to non-Muslims. Actually in many places it applies to some level; drinking alcohol in Saudi Arabia for instance.It has no application to non-Muslims, so it's not something to be feared.
What to do about those terrorists who admit that the teachings they claim are from the Quran aren't there? I dare say one would have to be illiterate or so for such a misunderstanding to take place at all. So I assume they know full well what they're doing and because of what.The fundamental Muslims cannot be convinced because they know the truth of what Islam teaches, they believe it, and will follow it to their deaths.
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