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Do Not Bash Muslims

Joyousperson

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One of the greatest misunderstanding in discussing the issue of Islamic-based terror, evil and violent acts, is barking up the wrong tree, fire fighting and missing the critical root cause, thus allowing the problem to fester and grow.
In most cases [presumption all religions are peaceful], the attention is always on the terrorists themselves whom I believe are victims of an evil laden ideology.

Here is my argument;

A Muslim is a person who had entered into a covenant with Allah to comply with the covenanted terms as in the Quran [final authority of Islam] with support from the Ahadiths.

Note the following conditions surrounding who is a Muslim, his/her obligation and actions;

1. DNA wise ALL humans are embedded with an existential crisis,

2. The most effective strategy to deal with the existential crisis is at of a promise of salvation to soothe the existential pains with the assurance of eternal life.

3. To be assured of the promise of salvation, believers MUST enter into a covenant with God/Allah to comply with the stipulated covenanted terms in the holy texts.

4. The covenanted terms of the ideology of Islam contain loads of evil and violent elements, (evidence available) [in contrast while that of Christianity is purely pacifist.]

5. DNA wise ALL humans has the potential to commit evil and violent acts. [argument available]

6. Appx 20% of all humans are born with an active evil tendency [evidence available] who will be naturally drawn towards evil and violent elements and commit them.

7. Potentially, SOME of the 20% of all Muslims [300 million!!!] will likely commit evil and violence in alignment with their obligation to gain salvation. Note the seriousness of this number when even a lone wolf can create terrible terrors.​
From the above, ALL humans are 'cursed' with an embedded existential crisis naturally and thus all will seek solutions to deal with the existential crisis.

The majority take the religious or spiritual, where the Abrahamic followers [thus Muslims] has to enter into a covenant with their God to comply with the covenanted terms to gain salvation with eternal life.

It is very evident there are SOME [from a pool of 300 million!!] Muslims who had committed terrible terroristic and other forms of evil and violent acts.
Here is a crude stat but [even if reduced to 50% or 10% ] in essence is very valid to justify the above point;

TROP.jpg


However from the logical syllogism re point 1-6, it is very logical we cannot blame the Muslims who as vulnerable human beings are seeking salvation to deal with an inherent existential crisis.
Alternatively and in contrast where any one who had followed the Christianity path, they will NOT be influenced in any way to commit any evil or violent act since the overriding moral maxim of Christianity is purely pacifist in nature.

In the above case of evil and violent acts committed by SOME Muslims, we cannot primarily blame those Muslims.
The critical cause for the Muslims in committing terrible evil and violence is point 4, i.e. the ideology of Islam that contain loaded evil and evil elements that would compel and inspire SOME [from a pool of 300 million] to commit terrible evil and violent [in their eyes a divine duty] to secure their salvation and eternal life in paradise.

As a control point [in theory], if there is no Islam with the evil and violent element in its ideology, there will be no Islamic-based evil and violent terror at all. In fact there will be no purely religious driven evil and violent acts at all. This is because no other mainstream religion condone evil and violence in their ideology, the only exception is Islam.

Of course, those extremist Muslims and others who commit evil and violent acts must be accountable for their crimes but for humanity sake in seeking effective solutions, the primary blame should never be pointed at the extremist Muslims but the attention should be on the root cause, that is in the ideology of Islam. If we blame the extremist Muslims, then we are fire-fighting the symptoms rather than tackling the ultimate root cause.

Note there other factors in the above model which are the inherent existential crisis, the evil potential. But these are DNA based element thus difficult to control and change.

Affiliation with a religion is a serious emotional and psychological affair but it can be changed or modified for the better. There are many who have converted in and out of religions.

My point;
In any discussion of Islamic based evil and violent acts, we must differentiate the Muslims as human beings from the ideology of Islam [as ideas and beliefs].
(note the guilty Muslims must be accountable to the laws of the land)

Per the model above, we must not put the primary blame and direction attention at the Muslims and even extremist Muslims for the evil and violent acts they committed in the name of their religion.

The main attention and focus must be on the evil and violent elements within the ideology of Islam.

One problem is the ideology of Islam within the Quran [& supporting texts] is extremely difficult to grasp in its totality. Thus the first attention is to ensure the Quran and its essence is easily understood by all. This is a difficult task, but must be undertaken with an academic, objective and philosophical basis.

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Tone

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we must not put the primary blame and direction attention at the Muslims and even extremist Muslims for the evil and violent acts they committed in the name of their religion

Why can't we extend this thinking to everybody in the world? Who can we put the primary blame on, since we are all in crisis? Christianity already has a principle and a saying for this, "Love the sinner, hate the sin."
 
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Joyousperson

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Why can't we extend this thinking to everybody in the world? Who can we put the primary blame on, since we are all in crisis? Christianity already has a principle and a saying for this, "Love the sinner, hate the sin."
We should promote the above thinking to the whole word thus we need to spread the word on this matter. The OP is critical to avoid people from blaming all Muslims for the acts of SOME Muslims who are inspired by verses from the Quran, the core and final authority of Islam.

Whilst the perpetrators who committed the crimes in the names of their religion must be accountable for their evil and violent acts under local laws, we need to focus on the critical root causes, that is the ideology of Islam as the primary blame.

The fact is the ideology of Islam as represented in the 6236 verses of the Quran contain loads of evil and violent elements that influence and inspire SOME evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evil and violent acts in the name of Islam.

The first step for humanity is to highlight and ensure all people [Muslims included] recognized and understand the existence of such evil and violent elements within the ideology of Islam that triggers SOME evil prone Muslims to commit evil and violent acts as a religious duty and to please Allah.

The problem with the ideology of Islam is that it does not have any overriding pacifist maxim to prohibit Muslims on a doctrinal basis from committing evil and violent acts upon non-Muslims.

In contrast, as you mentioned Christianity has this saying "Love the sinner, hate the sin" and most critical, Christianity has an overriding pacifist maxim imposed on all Christians to "love all - even enemies" thus not to kill non-Muslims.

Islam on the other hand, do not have an overriding prohibition on Muslims to kill non-Muslims. Instead, the ideology of Islam do exhort Muslims to war against and kill non-Muslims under very vague conditions of threat against the religion. Note,

2:216. Warfare [l-qitālu] is ordained [kutiba: prescribed] for you [Muslims], though it is hateful unto you [Muslims]; but it may happen that ye [Muslims] hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.
The above is merely one verse, but there are 1000s verses along the same vein of aggression toward non-Muslims.

Once we have done the first step as above, humanity can proceed to resolve the problem of Islamic evil and violence systematically.
 
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Joyousperson

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We shouldn't be "bashing" anyone. Isn't that what Jesus was all about?
Agree.

The problem is humans has this tendency to get into hasty generalization mode when they encounter some issues;

Hasty generalization is an informal fallacy of inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence—essentially making a rushed conclusion without considering all of the variables.

For example, if a person travels through a town for the first time and sees 10 people, all of them children, they may erroneously conclude that there are no adult residents in the town. -wiki
This is why is very common for people to blame all Muslims-in-general for the evil and violent acts by SOME evil prone Muslims.
There has been many cases where innocent Muslims and people who look like Muslims [e.g. Sikhs] were killed by association due to hasty generalization to the acts of SOME Muslims.

This is why it is critical to promote the OP that no one should bash or blame Muslims in general for the acts of SOME evil prone Muslims. In addition, we need to dig deeper into the root cause to the inherent evil elements within the ideology of Islam.
 
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Tone

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Once we have done the first step as above, humanity can proceed to resolve the problem of Islamic evil and violence systematically.

But don't you think that this is common knowledge? How will the problem be resolved if the whole world publicly affirms that Islam is evil at its core?
 
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Joyousperson

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But don't you think that this is common knowledge? How will the problem be resolved if the whole world publicly affirms that Islam is evil at its core?
First, 99% of the 1.6 billion of Muslims at present will not likely agree that the ideology of Islam contain evil and violent elements.
Most of the world leaders and apologists insist Islam is a religion of peace either by following their leaders and being ignorant of the true nature of the ideology of Islam.

The most critical act at present is for the whole world to understand [thoroughly and objectively] Islam has inherent evil and violent elements that influence SOME Muslims to commit terrible evil and violent acts.

Ideally, if all Muslims were to convert to Christianity and other non-violent religions, that would resolve the problem. But this is not practical at the present.

On the practical side at present, once Muslims and non-Muslims are aware Islam as evil and violent potentials, then, steps should be taken to ensure Muslims are not blindly influenced by the evil and violent elements.

The problem is the Quran from Allah is supposed to be immutable and thus cannot be edited nor changed in anyway by humans.
Within this limitation, Muslims need to be educated to mindfully focus solely on the soteriological and good elements.
This is like cutting up a puffer fish for cooking where one must be very careful to remove the poison sac first before cutting up the fish.
In the longer run [>50 years, 75?], I believe [you may not agree] and is optimistic, Muslims with the awareness of the limitations of Islam, will convert to Christianity or other non-violent religions on a voluntarily basis to deal with their soteriological needs.
 
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setst777

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First, 99% of the 1.6 billion of Muslims at present will not likely agree that the ideology of Islam contain evil and violent elements.
Most of the world leaders and apologists insist Islam is a religion of peace either by following their leaders and being ignorant of the true nature of the ideology of Islam.

The most critical act at present is for the whole world to understand [thoroughly and objectively] Islam has inherent evil and violent elements that influence SOME Muslims to commit terrible evil and violent acts.

Ideally, if all Muslims were to convert to Christianity and other non-violent religions, that would resolve the problem. But this is not practical at the present.

On the practical side at present, once Muslims and non-Muslims are aware Islam as evil and violent potentials, then, steps should be taken to ensure Muslims are not blindly influenced by the evil and violent elements.

The problem is the Quran from Allah is supposed to be immutable and thus cannot be edited nor changed in anyway by humans.
Within this limitation, Muslims need to be educated to mindfully focus solely on the soteriological and good elements.
This is like cutting up a puffer fish for cooking where one must be very careful to remove the poison sac first before cutting up the fish.
In the longer run [>50 years, 75?], I believe [you may not agree] and is optimistic, Muslims with the awareness of the limitations of Islam, will convert to Christianity or other non-violent religions on a voluntarily basis to deal with their soteriological needs.

Hi Joyousperson,

You are totally right on about Islam Ideology as being the foundation for most terrorism in the world, since all other religions do not have such an Ideology to conquer the world for their religion.

The Quran and the Hadith command and teach Muslims to accomplish this will of Allah through terror, through populating foreign countries, through political means, through deception (taqiyya), through demonstrations, violence, threats, destruction of the foreign countries culture, and eventually war. All this is taught in Islamic Ideology in order.

However, I take issue with your following comment...

<<
Within this limitation, Muslims need to be educated to mindfully focus solely on the soteriological and good elements.
>>

My reply:
The use of deception in using the Qu'an's peaceful verses will fail, since most Muslims will eventually figure out the reality.

Why?
The reason most Muslims will eventually see through this deception is that they will eventually learn that later verses abrogate earlier verses - so if two verses disagree or teaches contrary to the other, then the later verse abrogates the earlier verse.

Muslims are not as naive as you might think...


Muslims today typically uses Taqiyya (deception), picking convenient verses from the Quran to try to prove they are peaceful. Those peaceful verses were made when Muhammad was still in Mecca, was a minority, and had no power.

Since the later Qur'anic verses are quite violent, commanding Muslims to fight Christians, Jews, and all unbelievers, until the whole world is for Islam, then those are the verses that hold the authority.

More Muslims then you think are already aware of this and are supportive of terrorism and the destruction of the West and of Israel, even though they may not actively pursue terrorism themselves. Once you see the consensus results of Muslims throughout the world, you will immediately see that most support Shariah Law - which, among other things, embodies the hate that we find in the later verses.

Once you educate the remaining naive Muslims as to what the Quran actually teaches about their faith, then they will have two choices...

1) to leave Islam

2) to live out their faith and become terrorists.

Living as hypocrites will no longer be an option, because they know they will not be accepted by Allah unless they obey.

My feeling is that the more Muslims that find out about what is expected of them to follow Muhammad and the Qur'an, the more will turn to terrorism, or will actively support terrorism while waiting for orders from the next Caliph to fight for Allah to kill the non-Muslims in the countries they now reside.

Yes, more Muslims will also leave Islam once they found out about Islams true teachings. But many more of the over 1 billion Muslims in the world will follow their faith more accurately in the supporting or pursuing terrorism.

So, in essence, educating Muslims about the true Ideology of their religions will, in effect, wake up a sleeping giant in our midst - many living all over Europe and the United States.

Besides this, the Western nations have been put under the spell of Satan, so that even those who claim to be Christian are easily deceived by Islam and - despite claiming to be against hate - are actually ending up supporting the most hateful and destructive force the world will ever see - the rise of the Anti-Christ.

I truly believe the only thing that will stop Islam is the return of Christ. The battle lines are being prepared, and Islam's intentions have repeatedly been made clear by the leaders of hard core Islamic countries - the destruction of Israel, the West, and true Christians.

The Islamic nations that surround Israel will one day form a united coalition against Israel, with the help of Europe (which will do their bidding), and will plan to utterly destroy Israel forever.

However,
the True God has other plans. That PLAN will be the great Battle of Armageddon.

The world will learn that Israel (ZION) is the place God has chosen as His Eternal Resting place with His faithful followers...

Psalm 132:12-14 (NASB)

12 “If your sons will keep My covenant
And My testimony which I will teach them,
Their sons also shall sit upon your throne forever.”
13 For the Lord has chosen Zion;
He has desired it for His habitation.
14 “This is My resting place forever;
Here I will dwell, for I have desired it.

Revelation 21:2-9 (NASB)
2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them… 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God.

Hebrews 4:9-11 (NIV)
9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that place of rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
 
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Yytz6

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Note the following conditions surrounding who is a Muslim, his/her obligation and actions;

1. DNA wise ALL humans are embedded with an existential crisis,

2. The most effective strategy to deal with the existential crisis is at of a promise of salvation to soothe the existential pains with the assurance of eternal life.

3. To be assured of the promise of salvation, believers MUST enter into a covenant with God/Allah to comply with the stipulated covenanted terms in the holy texts.

4. The covenanted terms of the ideology of Islam contain loads of evil and violent elements, (evidence available) [in contrast while that of Christianity is purely pacifist.]

5. DNA wise ALL humans has the potential to commit evil and violent acts. [argument available]

6. Appx 20% of all humans are born with an active evil tendency [evidence available] who will be naturally drawn towards evil and violent elements and commit them.

7. Potentially, SOME of the 20% of all Muslims [300 million!!!] will likely commit evil and violence in alignment with their obligation to gain salvation. Note the seriousness of this number when even a lone wolf can create terrible terrors.​
I think you meant to put the sahada and the five pillars of Islam.

DNA?
 
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FireDragon76

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The Bible actually contains more violent imagery than the Quran, even in the New Testament. And far right Christian nationalist groups in the US are actually considered a significant domestic terrorist threat in the US by the FBI.
 
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Hieronymus

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The Bible actually contains more violent imagery than the Quran, even in the New Testament. And far right Christian nationalist groups in the US are actually considered a significant domestic terrorist threat in the US by the FBI.
It's about the teachings though.
Teachings make a religion.
 
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FireDragon76

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It's about the teachings though.
Teachings make a religion.

Interpretations of the Quran vary wildly, from the theocratic to the mystical.
 
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Hieronymus

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Interpretations of the Quran vary wildly, from the theocratic to the mystical.
That's not as relevant as you think (i think).
There are rules of engagement with the Quran.
When later passages contradict earlier passages, the earlier passages are overruled.
Islam, according to their scripture, wants to conquer the world by any means available.
 
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Yytz6

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That's not as relevant as you think (i think).
There are rules of engagement with the Quran.
When later passages contradict earlier passages, the earlier passages are overruled.
Islam, according to their scripture, wants to conquer the world by any means available.
Nothing in the Qur'an is overruled. There is not a single abrogation in the Qur'an.
 
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