Do Mormons go to Hell?

[gort]

FB: Not all sin was covered by the atonement.

All sin but one, the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. All sin. Even the most scarlet of sin can be forgiven. But for one, in which there is no forgiveness. Neither in this world, or the next.


It is very clear to me what JS said about blood atonement. I do not need special ears and eyes to see that.

<><

Your founder stated adultery and murder could not be atoned for by the Blood of Christ Jesus. Read the NT and see what adultery means to Jesus. Almost, if not all, are guilty of that sin. I was. The lust of the eyes.

JS stated that because of this, now man must atone. In other words, a false teaching.

 

[MormonFriend]

I just read this post by MormonFriend from several pages back:


Skylark: .... I should add that I do not believe that anyone will be condemned to hell on the basis of their view on this issue, as long as they believe that it is Jesus Christ that saves them, not their own efforts.

MormonFriend: Skylark, do you think this analogy could apply?

The Ladder

If I were stuck in a deep pit with no way out, and someone lowered a ladder, could I boast that my works of climbing out is what was rescued me? I have always had the ability to climb, but that didn't do much good in the pit, without the gift from my rescuer. Did I have faith in the ladder, or in the provider of the ladder? Could I demonstrate that faith without climbing it? If I did not apply my faith by climbing, I would soon be as dead as was my faith. Yet if I climb out, it was the gift that saved me, through my faith in that gift. This has every application and fits every requirement of the Biblical requirements. Works are a necessity, but are powerless to save.



MormonFriend,

My words were not meant to condemn. I do not know if your faith is in your own efforts or in Jesus Christ. I am not judging you. God knows your heart, I don't.

For me, your analogy raises more questions than it answers. First, you claim that you always had the ability to climb. What exactly do you mean by this, and how does it relate to the Bible? Do you mean that you had the ability to live a sinless life?

Very good question Skylark, and by no means did I ever feel any condemnation in your remarks. I was surprised you asked that.

I only posted part of my analogy because I can get long winded. I'll post the rest and it should make more sense.

But your question: Absolutely no on my ability to be sinless. The idea of a rescuer lowering a ladder wouldn't do the person any good if he/she couldn't climb. Well, the same idea applys to how Jesus gave us His Gospel and He knew that we could live it, every step.

13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

(1 Corinthians10:13)

He knew that we would falter from time to time and He paid the price for those sins. Without His purchase we would be lost forever.

Here is the rest of the analogy.

The pit represents our separation from God. God has given us many gifts and talents, along with our weakness. But we can all climb! Jesus is the gift from God. His atonement and crucifiction/resurrection are the main poles of the ladder. Each and every step of the ladder represents God's laws or commandments, and are arranged in a particular order for us to climb. Each step must be attached to the two poles of Christ. The order of steps may vary with different individuals, as the personal refinement needed may vary, but all steps must be obeyed to climb. It is never a question if we can or cannot, it is a question if we will or will not. The first four steps however, are the same for all.

The first is faith in Jesus. Faith that the poles will sustain us. Faith that this gift is from God, with all due gratitude, indeed, Godly gratitude. Faith that we are indebted to Him beyond that which we can repay, because there is no other way of escape. He truly purchased us!

The second is repentance. Repentance is possible only because Jesus paid the price for our redemption. Repentance means that we truly regret our sinfulness, and love Jesus more than our sinful ways. That love is verified by the choices we make. We turn away from sin, and never look back.

The third step is baptism. Jesus said " ...follow me." He led the way and was baptized. We cannot follow Him unless we do the same. (Mark:16:16)

The fourth is to receive the gift of The Holy Ghost. The rest of the steps cannot be accomplished without this gift, that is, without divine help. Nor can we properly understand beyond the basics without His influence.

 

[MormonFriend]

You know I dont really know all that much about this topic and all but it is interesting.

I have one thing which I think is interesting though, Satan first decieved 'man' by telling him that if he ate the fruit that he would become as God, that is what got us in this mess in the first place.

I personally dont believe there is any proof in the Bible towards what the mormons believe.

In the same chapter of Genisis, God confirmed what Satan said.

22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: (Genesis3:22)

Satan can and will tell many truths to insert one lie.
Here is a modern day example of deception.

Three men traveling together shared a hotel room to save expenses. The desk clerk charged thirty dollars and each man gave him ten dollars. After they settled in their room, the clerk remembered they were having a special price at twenty-five dollars, so he called the bell boy, and gave him five one dollar bills for their credit. On his way to their room to refund the money, the bell boy didn't know how he could split the five dollar bills three ways, So he took advantage of the situation and put two dollars in his own pocket, knocked on the door and said "Gentlemen, we overcharged you. Here is one dollar each". Now each man paid nine dollars for the room, having received one dollar credit from the ten they paid originally. Three times nine is twenty-seven, plus the two dollars in the pocket of the bell boy makes twenty-nine..... What happened to the thirtieth dollar?

Most people have a terrible time figuring this out. A few do so quickly, that are good at math. But the point is we all have weak points and Satan will find our weakness and write a custom riddle according to our weakness.

 

[gort]

mormonfriend quote:
Satan can and will tell many truths to insert one lie.

Hello,

I am hoping that you can show this scriptually, because Jesus said that Satan was the author of all lies.

Even when Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, satan lied and tried to mislead. Jesus countered satan at every step, quoting scripture in Truth.

There is no place in the Bible that says satan tells truths. satan decieves.

You go outside the Bible in this case, and as someone already said, that is a dangerous thing to do.

Find Der Alters meaning of this Genesis scripture you are quoting for understanding.

Peace

<><

 

[MormonFriend]

And you do realize that by highlighting certain words and ignoring the other words in this verse you are violating the total context of the verse? It does not say what you think it does.

God did not say the “man is become one of us” God said “the man is become as one of us.” And God very narrowly limited that similarity, "[only to the extent that man] know good and evil:” God further limits the similarity of man to God, after eating the fruit, by saying, “and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:” If man had become a god, he would have had eternal life, and God, the one and only God, could not have prevented him from gaining eternal life and kicked him out of the garden.

Unless you want to argue that once man becomes a "god," he is not omnipotent, and can be demoted back to being a common man again, by a more powerful God? Would you care to quote some scripture on that? Or maybe one of the LDS prophets has had a revelation on it.

I had no intention of ommiting (or ignoring) the word "as."
"As" can mean equal to.

(Dictionary.com)To the same extent or degree; equally: The child sang as sweetly as a nightingale.

But I would never consider myself equal to God.

So in a series of progression by Divine design and foreknowledge, man was created in His image and likeness. (Did God "... very narrowly (limit) that similarity ..." in this aspect of our being?) Then man obtained a knowledge of good and evil. Now what is lacking is, as you pointed out, is imortality and power.

If man had partaken the fruit of the tree of life, the plan would have been void. Adam would have lived forever in his sins. So, again as was planned from the beginning, a space of time was granted for man to repent, and at the same time learn how to properly use this newly aquired knowledge of good and evil, and balance that knowledge in righteousness with free will.
A Saviour was provided to bring man back into God's presence, if man chooses to repent, and use his knowledge as God does. Immortality is obtainable because of Jesus Christ.
So that leaves power. That is one of the mysteries of Godliness, but I deeply sense a relationship of His Priesthood, when given to man, as a training course.

I'm sure we will continue this, but my wife needs the computer. Bye.

 

[MormonFriend]

Hello,

I am hoping that you can show this scriptually, because Jesus said that Satan was the author of all lies.

Even when Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, satan lied and tried to mislead. Jesus countered satan at every step, quoting scripture in Truth.

There is no place in the Bible that says satan tells truths. satan decieves.

You go outside the Bible in this case, and as someone already said, that is a dangerous thing to do.

Find Der Alters meaning of this Genesis scripture you are quoting for understanding.

Peace

<><

Here is what Satan said:
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

(Genesis3:4 - 5)

And here is what God said:

22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: (Genesis3:22)

God confirmed what Satan said.

I absolutely agree that Satan is the Father of all lies. That does not mean that his mouth is gagged or bound from speaking truths with the intent to deceive. He can and does use strategy in his deceit.

And yes, I did respond to DerAlter

 

[Wrigley]

I see you have defined the term anti-mormon a little better. If we spit and spout anything it is against the false teachings of your founder and presidents, which have no foundation in the Holy Bible.
Hopefully those who are open minded will see the truth. I can quote your Joseph Smith and his revelation of the insufficient Blood Atonement for some sins many times, and get no honest response. However there was one or two here that recognized a truth.

I will ask you, fatboys, to try and say out loud, just as JS did, and say that the Atoning Work of Christ Jesus is insufficient for some multiple sins. You don't have to say it here, just tell yourself that, outloud, even in jest, and you just might see what I see. Many of your prophets and presidents way into this century have espoused that belief. Ask yourself how you could "error" in that regard.

The LDS beliefs and doctrines are another testament......in other words another gospel, another good news.

It is JS that started the blood atonement thing, it is JS that saw many other supposed revelations.

If these are stupid silly theories, remember your founder invented them. They are not compatible with the Bible.

<><

My computer screen is dry. Is yours? And my dog is peacefully sleeping on the couch. No shouting here. It's peaceful by you too?

 

[Wrigley]

FB: You are saying that all sin is paid for by Christ?

Yes.

FB: Not all sin was covered by the atonement.

.

Which is one of the faulty foudations of mormonism. You have a god who didn't atone for all sins on the cross. You have a soteriology where man must do something to save himself. You are saved by grace, AFTER all you do. Its a sad thing fatboys when you see it as you stated so plainly. I hope and pray that God will open your eyes that you may see that sadness and recieve the joy that He gives.

 

[skylark1]

MormonFriend,

After reading your sequential posts of your analogy of the ladder (#422), and your story of the money paid for the hotel room (#423), it seems clear to me that it is best to stick with the Bible, and use any anaolgies, parables, and statements found there.

Jesus did not say that he is the poles of a ladder, and that we are to add the rungs. He said:

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 10:9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
​

I do not see anyplace where Jesus speaks of "steps" and progression. Climbing the rungs of a ladder is so much more complicated than simply opening the door! When we open the door, He will come to us.

It is grace.

 

[gort]

Wrigley quote:
My computer screen is dry, Is yours? And my dog is peacefully sleeping on the couch. No shouting here. It's peaceful by you too?

Actually mine is dry too unless I choke and gag. However, my chair can get a little itchy and uncomfortable at times.....

your friendly anti-mormonite,

<><

 

[InnerPhyre]

What'll you have - coffee or a beer? (grin?

That was just rude

 

[Wrigley]

That was just rude

Really?

 

[Svt4Him]

22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: (Genesis3:22)

Not as Us, all powerful, all knowing, equal, but to know good and evil. There is a qualifier in that statement.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: (Genesis3:22)

Not as Us, all powerful, all knowing, equal, but to know good and evil. There is a qualifier in that statement.

4Him, I was wondering how long it would be before someone pointed that out. Thank you.

God bless-
Grace

 

[happyinhisgrace]

That was just rude

What is rude...the beer or the coffee? lol

Grace

 

[Wrigley]

What is rude...the beer or the coffee? lol

Grace

Light beer and decaf coffee are rude.

 

[LifeLuver]

Hi all!

I've been reading through this topic from about pg 5 and have enjoyed the debate so far. I'd like to make a quick note from my readings though to point out a few quotes from Tom777 and I believe Thinkr

Tom777

"- the Mormon god was once a man, a space alien, born on another planet who grew up to be god. this space alien currently resides on or near Kolob (depending upon which mormon source that you use). The Mormon god did not and cannot create matter or people, but rather only re-arranged matter to "create". Quite different from the one true Almighty immutable, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent God who created everything and everyone and who has existed from eternity to eternity without beginning or end."

.....This is found in the Book of Abraham, in part, which is considered scripture by the Mormons. Check it out. Other parts of what I said were given by Joseph Smith. Quotes available upon request.


Me:

in the BoA there is only one thing about Kolob in there (Also Kolob is a star) and that is to say it is near unto the kingdom of G-d...or something like that. I'm not exactly sure it exactly (been awhile since I've taken a peek) but I believe that's the gist of it. It speaks nothing of G-d being once a man on another planet is not mentioned there and this I believe stems more from a small saying Snow (I think. Also thinkr I'm certain it wasn't BY). Also I don't understand how we do not believe in ExNihlo would change G-d being " immutable, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent God who created everything and everyone and who has existed from eternity to eternity without beginning or end."


Okay... I'm done until i finish reading...by the way thnx for everyone whose posted I enjoy the read.

 

[InnerPhyre]

Mormons don't drink beer or coffee. To suggest either option was making fun of mormons....at least that's how it came off.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Mormons don't drink beer or coffee. To suggest either option was making fun of mormons....at least that's how it came off.

correction: Mormons aren't SUPPOSED to drink beer or coffee but several do, they are just very seceretive about it. Would it have been better if he had said, "will that be meat all year long or a tall glass of hot cocoa" (since hot drinks and eating meat more than just sparingly are also in the WofW. ?

God Bless,
Grace

 

[MormonFriend]

You have a soteriology where man must do something to save himself.

I believe that is Biblical.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
(Matthew24:13)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
(Hebrews5:9)

4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
(1 John5:4 - 5)

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved ....

(Mark16:16)

But you are not representing our faith and beliefs when you say "himself."