Do Mormons go to Hell?

[Wrigley]

Nice post happy.

 

[doclkk]

Let me be clear with some theology - Mormons have the Book of Mormon - In Galatians 1:8-9, it states clearly that if another "gospel" is given, let us eternally condemn that individual.

My question to mormons, where is the original Book of Mormon that Moroni "gave" to Jospeh Smith?

Moroni gave Joseph Smith a book that DOES contradict the Bible and therefore according to Paul - should be eternally condemned.

 

[TOmNossor]

Skylark,

The key distinction is the word ALONE.

I believe in salvation by grace through faith and works.



Happyinhisgrace,

No, the entire new testament is not about faith ALONE. I believe that faith precedes efficacious works because for one to be saved on must be subordinating one’s will to the will of God and without faith in God that is impossible.



Before on this board I said:

Imputed righteousness was theological novem put forth for the first time in all of history by Martin Luther.





Alister E. McGrath, Iustitia Dei, vol. 1, pp. 184, 185 - emphasis in the original:

The significance of the Protestant distinction between iustificatio and regeneratio is that a fundamental discontinuity has been introduced into the western theological tradition where none had existed before. Despite astonishing theological diversity of the late medieval period, a consensus relating to the nature of justification was maintained throughout. The Protestant understanding of the nature of justification represents a theological novem...However, it will be clear that the medieval peried was astonishingly faithful to the teaching of Augustine on the question of the nature of justification, where the Reformers departed from it.



Alister E. McGrath is neither a Catholic nor a LDS.



Now let me quote a larger section from a web site I just found that included the same things and more.



This is in response to James White the counter cultist (or whatever he claims to be). To my knowledge James White failed to respond to this response.



http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a98.htm

Evangelical Anglican scholar Alister McGrath writes at the conclusion of his doctoral dissertation IUSTITIA DEI: A History of the Christian Doctrine of Justification (Cambridge Univ Press, 1986), Volume 1, Chapter 5, Section 19 --

"The significance of the Protestant distinction between -iustificatio- and -regeneratio- is that a FUNDAMENTAL DISCONTINUITY has been introduced into the western theological tradition WHERE NONE HAD EXISTED BEFORE [emphasis by McGrath]."

"However, it will be clear that the medieval period was astonishingly FAITHFUL to the teaching of Augustine on the question of the nature of justification, WHERE THE REFORMERS DEPARTED FROM IT [emphasis mine]."

"The essential feature of the Reformation doctrines of justification is that a deliberate and systematic distinction is made between JUSTIFICATION and REGENERATION. Although it must be emphasised that this distinction is purely notional, in that it is impossible to separate the two within the context of the -ordo salutis- [the order of salvation], the essential point is that a notional distinction is made WHERE NONE HAD BEEN ACKNOWLEDGED BEFORE IN THE HISTORY OF CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE [emphasis mine]."

"A fundamental discontinuity was introduced into the western theological tradition WHERE NONE HAD EVER EXISTED, OR EVER BEEN CONTEMPLATED, BEFORE [my emphasis]. The Reformation understanding of the NATURE of justification -- as opposed to its mode -- must therefore be regarded as a genuine theological NOVUM."



TOm:

The link will go on to speak of Augustine and John Chrysostom.

The Bible does not say faith alone. The Bible does say works are important.

The Reformist abandoned this.

I have put this forth before. Others have put this forth before. To my knowledge no one has shown an author who proposed FAITH ALONE and the separation of Justification and Regeneration as Luther and the Reformist did.



Charity, TOm

 

[gort]

The Bible does not say faith alone.

Yes it does, TOm.

To my knowledge no one has shown an author who proposed FAITH ALONE

The author is Jesus.............you find the verse, I cannot find it for you

<><

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Alister E. McGrath is neither a Catholic nor a LDS.

To be honest with you, I don't care if McGarth is a green space alien from the planet Groomtoid (I obviously made that name up...lol), I still believe what the Bible says over the word of Man. And yes, I do believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God and contains all we need to know to get to eternal life with God.

I know, I know...us crazing, Bible thumping, washed clean in the blood, born of the spirit, dyed in the wool, Jesus Freak, grace believing Christians...when will we ever learn to quit trusting God and start trusting "modern prophets". Us silly Christians...lol


Grace

 

[Wrigley]

Yes it does, TOm.
The author is Jesus.............you find the verse, I cannot find it for you

<><

Hmm, I could have sworn I read Paul in Ephesians saying that.

 

[quichua_girl]

just to answer this question.... i'll have to say yes... I'm not a Bible scholar... but i know if you don't except Jesus into your life as your Savior and Lord you'll go to hell. And mormons, from what i understand have very mixed up beliefs and really dont' believe in Jesus as a Savior...

 

[gort]

Hmm, I could have sworn I read Paul in Ephesians saying that.

I guess when Jesus spoke, Paul listened..........

 

[Wrigley]

I guess when Jesus spoke, Paul listened..........<g>

He listened very well.

I needed this post. I saw I was stuck on 666,

 

[fatboys]

Let me be clear with some theology - Mormons have the Book of Mormon - In Galatians 1:8-9, it states clearly that if another "gospel" is given, let us eternally condemn that individual.

My question to mormons, where is the original Book of Mormon that Moroni "gave" to Jospeh Smith?

Moroni gave Joseph Smith a book that DOES contradict the Bible and therefore according to Paul - should be eternally condemned.

FB: I will not believe the Bible to be the word of God unless I have the original writings of the prophets who got them from God. Where are these originals? Are you hiding them from us?

 

[fatboys]

Alister E. McGrath is neither a Catholic nor a LDS.

To be honest with you, I don't care if McGarth is a green space alien from the planet Groomtoid (I obviously made that name up...lol), I still believe what the Bible says over the word of Man. And yes, I do believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God and contains all we need to know to get to eternal life with God.

I know, I know...us crazing, Bible thumping, washed clean in the blood, born of the spirit, dyed in the wool, Jesus Freak, grace believing Christians...when will we ever learn to quit trusting God and start trusting "modern prophets". Us silly Christians...lol


Grace

You will believe in dead prophets and there contaminated words as translated by uninspired man, over living, breathing prophets? What do you suppose you would say to those same prophets if you lived during their day?

 

[Toms777]

just to answer this question.... i'll have to say yes... I'm not a Bible scholar... but i know if you don't except Jesus into your life as your Savior and Lord you'll go to hell. And mormons, from what i understand have very mixed up beliefs and really dont' believe in Jesus as a Savior...

They follow a different Jesus (confirmed by the President of the Mormon church).

 

[Wrigley]

You will believe in dead prophets and there contaminated words as translated by uninspired man, over living, breathing prophets? What do you suppose you would say to those same prophets if you lived during their day?

You're assuming facts not in evidence. You have no proof that the Bible is corrupted. When you do a study of all the texts we have of the Bible, you have to be amazed at how much those all agree.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

The Bible does not say faith alone.

Really? Then how do you explain these? As you read these, remember that according to God, the only way we can obtain heaven is to be free of sin (forgiveness...aka grace from the Lord)

Matt 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

Matt 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

Mark 10:52 And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.

Luke 5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Romans 3:27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 3:30 Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (faith is the new law estabished by Christ)

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 4:9 .... for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: (notice this verse is also saying that we become the children of God when we believe in him)

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Romans 4:16 Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is ****** if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.

1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Gal 3:25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Phl 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

1 Titus 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

1 Titus 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

2 Titus 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

James 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, [even] the salvation of [your] souls.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith

 

[Toms777]

I believe in salvation by grace through faith and works.

Consider...if works could pay for even the tiniest fraction of our sin, then more works would pay for more and the possibility of paying for all of our sins through works is a reality.

That allows for the possibility that Jesus did not need to die on the cross because we can earn our salvation and is a denial of the gospel.

 

[TOmNossor]

Daneel,



Perhaps you are speaking of Rom 3:28 and Martin Luther’s added words during his translation.

Concerning being asked by the Pope why he did this addition Luther said, "Tell his holiness that it is becuase Dr. Luther says so."

So perhaps this is where you find your by “faith alone.”



Happyinhisgrace,

I understand you do not care, but you stand beside Martin Luther who ignored sections of the Bible when you say the Bible says “faith alone.” Those who do not have the biased teachers as they learn the Bible do not make the mistakes you seem to make. At the very least, you must acknowledge that the LDS interpretation of the Bible is quite solid (even if you do not agree with me that it is far more solid than yours).



Charity, TOm

 

[happyinhisgrace]

You will believe in dead prophets and there contaminated words as translated by uninspired man, over living, breathing prophets? What do you suppose you would say to those same prophets if you lived during their day?

First of all, I believe in a God that was and still is powerful enough to preserve his holy word, and did just that. Secondly, if you are reffering to the LDS "prophets", they are not true prophets of God so of course I do not take their word for anything more than falsehoods. The best way to see that the LDS prophets are not true prophets of God is to compare what they teach as compared to the Bible. The LDS "prophets" have fallen very short when it comes to conforming with the Word of God.

God Bless,
Grace

 

[arizona_sunshine]

The Bible does not say faith alone.

Really? Then how do you explain these? As you read these, remember that according to God, the only way we can obtain heaven is to be free of sin (forgiveness...aka grace from the Lord)

Matt 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

Matt 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

Mark 10:52 And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.

Luke 5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Romans 3:27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 3:30 Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (faith is the new law estabished by Christ)

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 4:9 .... for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: (notice this verse is also saying that we become the children of God when we believe in him)

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Romans 4:16 Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is ****** if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.

1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Gal 3:25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Phl 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

1 Titus 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

1 Titus 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

2 Titus 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

James 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, [even] the salvation of [your] souls.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith

James 2:14 & 17

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.


Faith includes work! Faith inspires work! We exercise faith--- that in and of itself is an action! Why is this concept so bitterly distasteful to so many Christians?

Faith is first, I completely believe that. It is the only key toward understanding Christ's life, ministry and atonement.

It is not enough, however, to say that we have faith if we do not show forth the fruits of that faith and follow the perfect example of Christ.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Daneel,



Perhaps you are speaking of Rom 3:28 and Martin Luther’s added words during his translation.

Concerning being asked by the Pope why he did this addition Luther said, "Tell his holiness that it is becuase Dr. Luther says so."

So perhaps this is where you find your by “faith alone.”



Happyinhisgrace,

I understand you do not care, but you stand beside Martin Luther who ignored sections of the Bible when you say the Bible says “faith alone.” Those who do not have the biased teachers as they learn the Bible do not make the mistakes you seem to make. At the very least, you must acknowledge that the LDS interpretation of the Bible is quite solid (even if you do not agree with me that it is far more solid than yours).



Charity, TOm

Actually, I stand beside God and his Holy word, plain and simple. If Martin Luther agreed with the same things I do, then great, wonderful, terrific. If not, that's fine too. All I care about is what the Bible says.

And NO, I must not agree that the LDS interpetation of the Bible is solid, it is so full of holes, it could be swiss cheese.

Grace

 

[Toms777]

Daneel,



Perhaps you are speaking of Rom 3:28 and Martin Luther’s added words during his translation.

Concerning being asked by the Pope why he did this addition Luther said, "Tell his holiness that it is becuase Dr. Luther says so."

So perhaps this is where you find your by “faith alone.”

Maybe you need to read the full context:

Rom 3:21-28
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
NKJV