LDS Do Mormons Comprehend God?

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"It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being" (Deseret New, 16 Nov. 1859, p. 290).
Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 153

Doctrine and Covenants 20
17 By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them;

“Finite powers and capacities cannot comprehend that which is infinite.”
Bruce R. McConkie , (Promised Messiah, p. 208)
Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Enrichment D, p. 381
Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual Enrichment D Contributions of the Doctrine and Covenants to an Understanding of Jesus Christ

The Mormon god must be incomprehensible.

Our first and foremost article of faith in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.” We believe these three divine persons constituting a single Godhead are united in purpose, in manner, in testimony, in mission. We believe Them to be filled with the same godly sense of mercy and love, justice and grace, patience, forgiveness, and redemption. I think it is accurate to say we believe They are one in every significant and eternal aspect imaginable except believing Them to be three persons combined in one substance, a Trinitarian notion never set forth in the scriptures because it is not true...
We agree with our critics on at least that point—that such a formulation for divinity is truly incomprehensible. With such a confusing definition of God being imposed upon the church, little wonder that a fourth-century monk cried out, “Woe is me! They have taken my God away from me, … and I know not whom to adore or to address.” How are we to trust, love, worship, to say nothing of strive to be like, One who is incomprehensible and unknowable? What of Jesus’s prayer to His Father in Heaven that “this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”?

Jeffrey R. Holland, The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent, General Conference, October 2007
The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent - Jeffrey R. Holland

Of course, there are a lot of other things these fish gathered of every kind don’t know, but if they are to embrace the restored gospel and truly find salvation for their souls, it will have to begin with some knowledge and understanding of the members of the Godhead. Ultimately, “true and saving worship is found only among those who know the truth about … the Godhead and who understand the true relationship men should have with each member of [what one of the Brethren has called] that Eternal Presidency.”
...Christian Confusion
Regarding the distinct nature of these Divine Beings, our latter-day revelations teach that “the Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit” (D&C 130:22).
You can’t get a baseline statement clearer than that! But unfortunately, nearly two millennia of Christian history have sown terrible confusion and near-fatal error in this regard. Many evolutions and iterations of religious creeds have greatly distorted the simple clarity of true doctrine, declaring the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost to be abstract, absolute, transcendent, immanent, consubstantial, coeternal, and unknowable; without body, parts, or passions; and dwelling outside space and time.
In such creeds, all three members are separate persons, but they are a single being, the oft-noted “mystery of the trinity.” They are three distinct persons, yet not three Gods but one. All three persons are incomprehensible, yet it is one God who is incomprehensible.
We agree with our critics on at least that point—that such a formulation for divinity is incomprehensible. With such a confusing definition of God being imposed upon the Church, little wonder that a fourth-century monk cried out, “Woe is me! They have taken my God away from me, … and I know not whom to adore or to address.” How are we to trust, love, and worship, to say nothing of striving to be like, One who is incomprehensible and unknowable? What of Jesus’s prayer that it “is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”? (John 17:3; emphasis added).
Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, Knowing the Godhead, Ensign, January 2016
Knowing the Godhead - Ensign January 2016 - ensign
 

Greg J.

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@Phoebe Ann, I am not seeing the point of your post. It appears to be a list of statements by Mormons opposing the first paragraph by a Mormon. If you wrote anything other than the title of the OP, I can't tell. I don't understand what is meant by "comprehending God." i.e., I comprehend God is real and sometimes what he said to some degree, but I do not understand many details about him. (I don't even understand all details about any human, including myself!)
 
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fatboys

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@Phoebe Ann, I am not seeing the point of your post. It appears to be a list of statements by Mormons opposing the first paragraph by a Mormon. If you wrote anything other than the title of the OP, I can't tell. I don't understand what is meant by "comprehending God." i.e., I comprehend God is real and sometimes what he said to some degree, but I do not understand many details about him. (I don't even understand all details about any human, including myself!)
Amen
 
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@Phoebe Ann, I am not seeing the point of your post. It appears to be a list of statements by Mormons opposing the first paragraph by a Mormon. If you wrote anything other than the title of the OP, I can't tell. I don't understand what is meant by "comprehending God." i.e., I comprehend God is real and sometimes what he said to some degree, but I do not understand many details about him. (I don't even understand all details about any human, including myself!)

Let's see if this helps:

God isn't a finite human. We aren't expected to understand everything. Mormons have criticized us for not explaining our God so that they can understand Him.


Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised, and his greatness is unsearchable. (Ps. 145:3)

Behold, these are but the outskirts of his ways, and how small a whisper do we hear of him! But the thunder of his power who can understand? (Job 26:14)

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isa. 55:8–9)

Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! "For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?" (Rom. 11:33–34; cf. Job 42:1–6; Ps. 139:6, 17–18; 147:5; Isa. 57:15; 1 Cor. 2:10–11; 1 Tim. 6:13–16)
.................................

Knowledge of God in Christ should be our greatest delight (Jer. 9:23–24; 1 Cor. 2:2; Gal. 6:14). It is the basis of attaining eternal life (John 17:3); it is at the heart of life in the new covenant (Heb. 8:11–12); it was Paul’s primary goal (Phil. 3:10); and it leads to godly love (1 John 4:7–8). God will never be known absolutely, but we can know things about him that are absolutely true, so much so that we can be willing to live and die for those beliefs. God has provided knowledge of himself that is personal, relational, and sufficient for fruitful, faithful, godly living. No one will ever be able to say he lacked the necessary revelation to know God and to start living as God intends.
https://www.crossway.org/blog/2016/...comprehensible-and-knowable-at-the-same-time/
 
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KevinSim

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Infinite beings know they are infinite. If you aren't one of those, then you are finite.
Greg J., I assume that you believe you are a finite being. So I would ask you, how do you, a finite being, come to the conclusion that you just came to, that infinite beings know they are infinite?
 
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It just depends on one's definition of what an "infinite being" is. My statements reflect my definition, which includes the fact that God exists outside of time. Space and time are inseparably connected (something that has been and can be proven) and God created the universe. Scripture says in many ways that God was without beginning and is without end.
 
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fatboys

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It just depends on one's definition of what an "infinite being" is. My statements reflect my definition, which includes the fact that God exists outside of time. Space and time are inseparably connected (something that has been and can be proven) and God created the universe. Scripture says in many ways that God was without beginning and is without end.
I don't doubt you but could you give a scripture that reference this
 
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Greg J.

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Sure. Many of the passages that are often referred to are supporting evidence, which may not do much for a skeptic. (e.g., Revelation 22:13) As with all of Scripture, even these can be explained away if someone wants to.

Below, I quoted verses from the NASB which is a very literal English translation of the Hebrew and Greek. For investigating things like what "everlasting" and "eternal" mean in more detail requires a word study of the actual Hebrew and/or Greek words used. (People in these forums can help with that.)
__________
Abraham planted a tamarisk tree at Beersheba, and there he called on the name of the LORD, the Everlasting God. (Genesis 21:33, NASB)
__________
Before the mountains were born Or You gave birth to the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God. (Psalms 90:2, NASB)
__________
‘Indeed, I lift up My hand to heaven, And say, as I live forever, … (Deuteronomy 32:40, NASB)
__________
and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there will be delay no longer, (Revelation 10:6, NASB)
__________
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. (1 Timothy 1:17, NASB)
__________
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (Genesis 1:1, NASB)

The heavens were what people of that time saw when they looked up which, at night, included a dome of darkness, stars, etc. i.e. the universe. The creation of space required the creation of time in that created space, since space and time are parts of the same thing (spacetime). If the universe was created by God, then God existed before space and time were created.

The beginning of John 1 mimics the beginning of Genesis 1. John was well aware of Genesis 1:1 and he said:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. (John 1:1-3, NASB)

v. 4 shows the Word was a “he” and in him was life, and the life was light.
v. 7 and on shows Jesus (the life in Jesus) was the light.
__________
“The eternal God is a dwelling place, And underneath are the everlasting arms; And He drove out the enemy from before you, And said, ‘Destroy!’ (Deuteronomy 33:27, NASB)
__________
About Melchizedek:

The LORD has sworn and will not change His mind, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.” (Psalms 110:4, NASB)

Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually. (Hebrews 7:3, NASB)

Verses like John 1:3 remind us that Melchizedek couldn’t have been greater ("more eternal") than God.
 
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KevinSim

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The creation of space required the creation of time in that created space, since space and time are parts of the same thing (spacetime). If the universe was created by God, then God existed before space and time were created.
What do you mean by "before space and time were created"? Doesn't the word before imply something prior? If time was created, wouldn't that mean there wasn't anything before it? What kind of sense does it make to talk about anything before time was created?
 
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It just depends on one's definition of what an "infinite being" is. My statements reflect my definition, which includes the fact that God exists outside of time. Space and time are inseparably connected (something that has been and can be proven) and God created the universe. Scripture says in many ways that God was without beginning and is without end.
I believe that. I believe that God is in many ways without beginning and without end. And I believe that when Jesus transforms us into what He prayed for, into becoming fully one with Him and His Father, in the same way, He said, as He was one with His Father, we will at that point become part of what is without beginning and without end.
 
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Greg J.

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What do you mean by "before space and time were created"? Doesn't the word before imply something prior? If time was created, wouldn't that mean there wasn't anything before it? What kind of sense does it make to talk about anything before time was created?
God gave the Bible to humans and expressed himself in the best ways for humans to know him. While it doesn't make sense that he could do anything that required the passage of time to create time, that is the best way we can understand it. I accept it as one of the (many) things we cannot understand about existence outside of time. Although, one thing I do believe is that without time, there is no such thing as learning (or any kind of change), so such a being must either know nothing or know everything.
I believe that. I believe that God is in many ways without beginning and without end. And I believe that when Jesus transforms us into what He prayed for, into becoming fully one with Him and His Father, in the same way, He said, as He was one with His Father, we will at that point become part of what is without beginning and without end.
I almost agree with this as stated, except that those who have genuinely believed in the Son of God and fully yielded to his Lordship are already reborn in Christ. That part is not yet to come—and we have eternal life now. (But we experience our new selves in Christ according to our faith.) So, there is a sense in which we are already fully joined with God (our reborn spirits), a sense in which we are becoming more like God (sanctification of our soul), and a sense in which we have yet to become like God (which will happen when we see his face, although there will still be a "final completion" at our resurrection).

(Sorry if this is a little off-topic for the thread.)
 
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From what I've read read of Mormonism, finite beings can become infinite. Example, they teach that the Father was once a finite being, yet now is infinite. Some have taught that the Father is not omnipotent.
 
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fatboys

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From what I've read read of Mormonism, finite beings can become infinite. Example, they teach that the Father was once a finite being, yet now is infinite. Some have taught that the Father is not omnipotent.
All these years and you still get it wrong
 
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