Do Messianic Jews keep the law? (FAQ Discussion)

[MissytheButterfly]

Yesterday at 10:47 PM Yahweh Nissi said this in Post #30

Do Messianics try to stick to the 613 Orthodox Jewish Laws? (Or at least 'evangelical' Messianics, if such a term could be at all applicable). If so, do people think that only circumsized Jewish Messianics aught to, or do they think that evangelical christian teaching on following the laws is generally badly misguided.
Note, I realise that this is likely to be quite a contentious issue! I would not expect a short, simple answer!

Well the answer actually can be rather short. Messianic Jews most certainly follow the Law. But let me explain that several of them cannot be fulfilled today. It's only about approx 300 (give or take a few) that are still in effect today because some cannot be still carried out.

Now with Messianic Gentiles it is varied. Many follow the Law to the letter (of course those that can still be accomplished) because it is either encourage by their Messianic congregation, they feel compelled to do so, or a combo of both. Then you have some Messianic Gentiles that follow a large portion of the law but stick with what was for Gentiles that was settled at the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15.

As far as circumcision is concerned. All Messianic Jewish males are circumcised. Because Messianic Jews follow the law. And law is that Jewish males are to be circumcised 8 days after birth unless medical reasons then it is another 8 day weight after the child is well. Most Messianic Gentiles also observe this Law.

Frankly, a Christian isn't bound by certain laws given to the Jews. As Paul says that it is no need for a non-Jew to try to become a Jew. But of course what was stated in Acts 15 for Gentiles should be followed and observed by Christians. Christianity yields some liberties that Judaism does not.. also simply being a Gentile yields some liberties that being Jewish does not.

Missy

 

[Talmid HaYarok]

Not all the laws every could be kept by everyone of course. There is one law that states that a King isn't allowed to have more than one wife. Hard to do back in the early days when Israel didn't even have Kings....

Also, since the loss of the 2nd temple of course many of the Levitical laws aren "kept" by anyone. As my Univeristy Torah professor would say: Nobody "does" Leviticus. Nobody owns slaves any more, so do we keep the laws regarding slaves?

We generally keep what is in our power to keep.

There are two contentious areas within this though. Probably the more argued one (though lesser of the two issues in my mind) is between the Law and Talmudic Halachah. Talmudic teaching actually contradicts with the Torah in a few spots (Do you put a blue stripe in your Tzitzit if you wear them?), and too many Messianics these days are from the new movements which try to keep the traditions of Rabbinic Judaism rather than reaching back to the Nazarene Jews. This is probably to be expected with the explosive growth of Messianic Judaism and so few having any connection to older Messianic traditions. Its easy to fall back on the cultural traditions instead (just look at the Gentile church for instance).

The more important issue to me, but argued less often is that of cleanliness laws. It was important to be "clean" rather than unclean for going to the temple, making sacrifices, or any time one might be considered as appearing before the Lord. Leprosy made on unclean, a woman's period made her unclean, wounds, sickness, Sin, etc.

I consider that Yeshua's sacrifice means a permanent sacrifice has been made and we've been "made" clean by the blood of the Lord. I quickly note that this is only applied to people, and not to unclean foods which it is a Sin to eat. This would again relate to the Levitical priestly laws and not to the Laws given to Moses in Exodus.

In the end I'd say most Messianic Jews keep the Law (Not Halachah) as well or better than most Orthodox Jews.

 

[Yahweh Nissi]

What do Messianic Jews make of Romans 14, then?

 

[dignitized]

Question - it is often touted that one should keep the mitzvah of the OT and one in particular is often brought forth - that being "keeping the Sabbath." Tell me, where in the 613 mitzvah is it commended to worship on the Sabbath? Also, I'll like to know, SERIOUSLY, what about Sabbath years?? How can you claim to "keep the Sabbath" without keeping all which is Sabbatical?

 

[MissytheButterfly]

Br. Max I see what you are saying and it does indeed make a lot of sense.

I would like to know what you make of this:


The 613 Mitzvot
At the heart of halakhah is the unchangeable 613 mitzvot that G-d gave to the Jewish people in the Torah (the first five books of the Bible). The word "mitzvah" means "commandment." In its strictest sense, it refers only to commandments instituted in the Torah; however, the word is commonly used in a more generic sense to include all of the laws, practices and customs of halakhah, and is often used in an even more loose way to refer to any good deed.

Some of the mitzvot are clear, explicit commands in the Bible (thou shalt not murder; to write words of Torah on the doorposts of your house), others are more implicit (the mitzvah to recite grace after meals, which is inferred from "and you will eat and be satisfied and bless the L-rd your G-d"), and some can only be ascertained by Talmudic logic (that a man shall not commit incest with his daughter, which is derived from the commandment not to commit incest with his daughter's daughter).

Some of the mitzvot overlap; for example, it is a positive commandment to rest on Shabbat and a negative commandment not to do work on Shabbat.

From: http://www.jewfaq.org/halakhah.htm#Contents

And this:
Times and Seasons

That the new month shall be solemnly proclaimed as holy, and the months and years shall be calculated by the Supreme Court only (Ex. 12:2) (affirmative) (the authority to declare months is inferred from the use of the word "unto you").
Not to travel on Shabbat outside the limits of one's place of residence (Ex. 16:29) (CCN7).
To sanctify Shabbat (Ex. 20:8) (CCA19). .
Not to do work on Shabbat (Ex. 20:10) (CCN6). .
To rest on Shabbat (Ex. 23:12; 34:21) (CCA20).

From here: http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

And this one: http://www.jewfaq.org/shabbat.htm

I was just wondering what you thought about that and do you think since that was OT Law it should not be followed ?

I mean these questions in sincerity. I would like to know your personal opinion on these just to get an aspect of what you believe because I do not wish to misinterpret you.

Blessings,
Missy

 

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

What do Messianic Jews make of Romans 14, then?

Shalom Yahweh Nissi,

Here is an article I found in my searches for Messianic answers:
http://www.torahresource.com/English%20Articles/Rm%2014%20&%20Sabbath.pdf

I can only answer what I learn and pray over.

Shalom,
Tag