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Thats been done - they sought to correlate it with other scales, and the results were not conclusive, all they could say was: well it seems at times to be measuring this, though it calls it that.I think the best thing to do would be to clarify what the Myers-Briggs is supposed to do. It's not supposed to be psychological, and it's not supposed to define your personality.
Thankyou for your good natured reply, yes there seems to be some irony there, if not hypocrisy, and thankyou for pointing it out. I am sorry.
I have been through these systemical failure hitting the fan moments and they are not nice when you have no say. Personal choices are not predictable - that the nature to my mind of personhood - the good thing being truly personal decisions value all concerned as persons, not types, and not cogs, and valuing the person of another can't result in harm surely? Personhood is the highest value.
I have spent a good part of my life thinking of ways to defuse the sort of psychological determinism mindset so others, even if I can't can have some psychological space and freedom back.
I was wrong to say you sounded like a "straight-jacketer".
A reader shared the following infographic with me and I thought it would be interesting to review and discuss. The infographic compares introverted Christians with extroverted Christians. It suggests that in our culture we tend to hold up extroverted Christians as the model while diminishing the value or esteem of introverted Christians.
Introverts: Preferences for privacy; preference for hunches, visionary ability; preferences for hard facts over feelings; preferences for open-endedness, casual approach to life
Extroverts: Preference for groups, companionship; preference for concrete data when making decisions; reliance on feelings in decision making; preferences for closure, focus on clear objectives
That's likely true of every culture.
Am I the only person who doesn't see any real difference between most of those "differences?" And it seems rather strange to me that the introvert would have "preferences for open-endedness, casual approach to life" while the extrovert would have "preferences for closure, focus on clear objectives."
It seems to me that by the descriptions of the author, an "extroverted church" sounds like a lot of non-denoms and the "introverted church" sounds like a lot of denominational mainstream churches. However, the article is 'way too vague with a clear ax that that the author is grinding.
Going back to my first sentence, extroverts are likely to be successful in any culture and obviously will be the most noticeably successful. I haven't attended a congregation that didn't have roles for introverts, but I would say it's true that pastoral staffs are not as attentive as they should be to make sure every member is offered a role that suits his abilities.
Honestly most people don't need to get that involved. I want to go to church to worship, give thanks, join in prayers, repent if I need too, receive the sacraments and have some fellowship. I don't want any role particularly thanks.Going back to my first sentence, extroverts are likely to be successful in any culture and obviously will be the most noticeably successful. I haven't attended a congregation that didn't have roles for introverts, but I would say it's true that pastoral staffs are not as attentive as they should be to make sure every member is offered a role that suits his abilities.
I have never felt comfortable at church. It has been 20 years since I last had a church home. And when you hear something about yourself enough times, you believe it. Therefore, with the people around me at church playing a big part in it, I developed the belief that I was pathologically shy. Only in the last several years have I discovered and been able to fully appreciate that I am simply highly introverted. That does not repair the damage done from many years of believing that there is something wrong with you. Anyway, I can empathize with the writer's concerns here.
I tend to think that the difference is one of awareness.
the introvert is more likely to be aware of self, while the extrovert is more likely to be aware of others.
Myers-Briggs was for only some workplaces (particularly a post-war industrial workplace, and even more so for women in the industrial workplace due to post-war labour shortages), not for places of worship, missions, or fellowships, or families, or finding a husband or wife.
Psychological typing is putting people in a box, in a box for others convenience.
Honestly most people don't need to get that involved. I want to go to church to worship, give thanks, join in prayers, repent if I need too, receive the sacraments and have some fellowship. I don't want any role particularly thanks.
It's simply to meet with other christians, and for worship. If I am well spiritually I'll then be salt and light outside. That's all I am after. I have served in other ways, but really I don't go there for a role, or to be psycho-analysed. If they want me to move chairs, wash up, or make tea, no problem at all, done it many times in the church I grew up in.
Honestly most people don't need to get that involved. I want to go to church to worship, give thanks, join in prayers, repent if I need too, receive the sacraments and have some fellowship. I don't want any role particularly thanks.
It's simply to meet with other christians, and for worship. If I am well spiritually I'll then be salt and light outside. That's all I am after. I have served in other ways, but really I don't go there for a role, or to be psycho-analysed. If they want me to move chairs, wash up, or make tea, no problem at all, done it many times in the church I grew up in. Far to much going on in some churches - sickly bubbles, what do people think the church is there for?
If these churches are so 'extroverted' its amazing how few people bother to move away from their little friendship circle to speak to someone who is new, they wouldn't even know who was new. I stood drinking a cup of tea many times and looked toward people to start to chat, and the so called more "extroverted" ones are just caught up with themselves. Someone had the rudness to say well you better just go up to people and introduce yourself. Joined their small group and before long they blamed the new-comer for their loss of a sense of togetherness they had before. Started talking to a girl once, and she wanted to know my "type" she said she gets on better with an 'N' or a "J' or something? Forget it, if a church wants to keep going down that road it'll be finished within a generation. Why would I want to go somewhere God was almost ready to spit out of his mouth, or that was opening the door to a gnostic spirituality that would destroy any renewal, or vitality they had.
My depressions are due to this accursed Jungian typing, and the spirituality in it. I debated with someone who was into it and always on at me to let her test me, and I refused repeated. They're blinded by it, no amount of reason would make some of them see. Just avoid.
Persons are more than phenomena. But what's the point? People will only understand once they repent.
I do know a bit about this, if you don't mind me saying. It opens the door to gnostic spirituality, because that was the spirituality of CG Jung whose psychological types it was based on. I am willing to accept I may be wrong. A spiritually mature christian, secure in their faith, won't be affected by having a Myers-Briggs test done perhaps. But I really can't see any point in it for christians. For baptised christians their identity has a completely new basis. Jung and Myers Briggs can't tell them anything about who they are or will become as followers of Jesus. Jung's types are based on who they were before their conversion. He never embraced christianity himself, because he accepted a false revelation as a child, and he wrote that "Lord Jesus never became quite real for me, never quite acceptable, never quite lovable..." (See Leanne Payne's book : The Healing Presence.)Also, there's no spirituality in Myers-Briggs.
Thanks. A while ago I read about churchism from John MacKay's book: Christian Reality and Appearance.Also, I'd look into the phenomenon known as "churchism".
I have never felt comfortable at church. It has been 20 years since I last had a church home. And when you hear something about yourself enough times, you believe it. Therefore, with the people around me at church playing a big part in it, I developed the belief that I was pathologically shy. Only in the last several years have I discovered and been able to fully appreciate that I am simply highly introverted. That does not repair the damage done from many years of believing that there is something wrong with you. Anyway, I can empathize with the writer's concerns here.
Its still widely used.
Psychological typing is putting people in a box, in a box for others convenience.
And religious ideologues like to obliterate distinctions between real people.
I have never felt comfortable at church. It has been 20 years since I last had a church home. And when you hear something about yourself enough times, you believe it. Therefore, with the people around me at church playing a big part in it, I developed the belief that I was pathologically shy. Only in the last several years have I discovered and been able to fully appreciate that I am simply highly introverted. That does not repair the damage done from many years of believing that there is something wrong with you. Anyway, I can empathize with the writer's concerns here.
Yes, I agree 100%, even though I never watched Dead Poets' society. Which is ironic considering that a few months ago I had the opportunity to do so, but declined
There is nothing wrong with being extrovert. There is nothing wrong with being the life of the party. There is nothing wrong with being outgoing or the great communicator.
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