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do I hear an echo? ~ site changes?

Nadiine

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Ok, I don't know how to check site numbers, but I dropped in
yesterday afternoon (about 3:30ish West Coast time)
& NOBODY was in Congregation or Theology.

Was there a site problem going on? Becuz the pages were
taking a long time to load & I know it wasn't my connection.

Wondering what's up... & if this (if it's lower member #'s)
might relate to the new changes/rules over the past month?

*I'm not looking to start a 'bash CF' fest, just asking about
site issues & I just learned that this site is an
"ecumenical" forum from RMW's post (hi RMW! :hug:)

I hadn't heard that before, was this site always ecumenical
& I've had my head buried in the sand? :o :confused:
 
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rmw8855

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Good morning Nadiine :hug:

The site has always been an ecumenical site as far as I know.

The congregational forums will still remain "safe havens" based on their FSG's. The only change is that moderators of different denominations will work on reports. Since the decisions should only be based on the rules instead of on beliefs this shouldn't be a problem.

Just a reminder - FreeinChrist, JoabAnias, and I (the admins for the Ecumenical Team - ET) are always available if anyone feels there is a problem. We may not agree with you but we are always willing to review a report or thread.
 
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mont974x4

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:hug: Hey, Sis!!


This time of year most message boards have a slow down, the holidays, vacations, kids home from school etc have an impact.

Yes, some major changes are taking place and CF usually loses people during those changes and I know many people are not happy about the new mod free for all. :doh:I wonder of CF will ever learn.
 
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Tonks

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I wonder of CF will ever learn.

meh...this is about my 5th (6th? 7th?) time going through CF "change." The only one that was ever really destructive was the 777 stupidity. That is the only time that the site lost a significant number of members that did not return.

The rest of these issues are marginal and more aimed at workflow than anything else.
 
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mont974x4

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lost members are lost members.


I understand the work flow issue with the new mod change, but do you really think it's going to help? The big problem I see is it is going to create more work in the long run because it will be so much easier for people to have a reasonable complaint of bias when mods who have dramatically different views of a given area are working reports. I know I would raise heck if I had a liberal atheist working one of my reports. Which means more complaints and appeals and a lot more work. We know the system is designed to help guard against bias by requiring a consensus but that won't matter to the members because the perception is more important.

I wonder, with these changes will we have a chance to know when we have been reported and be able to defend ourselves like we used to? Or are we to remain at the mercy of spite reporters and have no idea there's an issue until a decision is made?

It's -12, but the snow stopped and the sun is up. I'm going to go replace the window motor on my brides expedition while I consider what to do.
 
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Hentenza

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lost members are lost members.


I understand the work flow issue with the new mod change, but do you really think it's going to help? The big problem I see is it is going to create more work in the long run because it will be so much easier for people to have a reasonable complaint of bias when mods who have dramatically different views of a given area are working reports. I know I would raise heck if I had a liberal atheist working one of my reports. Which means more complaints and appeals and a lot more work. We know the system is designed to help guard against bias by requiring a consensus but that won't matter to the members because the perception is more important.

I wonder, with these changes will we have a chance to know when we have been reported and be able to defend ourselves like we used to? Or are we to remain at the mercy of spite reporters and have no idea there's an issue until a decision is made?

It's -12, but the snow stopped and the sun is up. I'm going to go replace the window motor on my brides expedition while I consider what to do.

There are no liberal atheist mods in ET.;):)
 
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Hentenza

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Ok, I don't know how to check site numbers, but I dropped in
yesterday afternoon (about 3:30ish West Coast time)
& NOBODY was in Congregation or Theology.

Was there a site problem going on? Becuz the pages were
taking a long time to load & I know it wasn't my connection.

No is not your connection. I am having the same issue. Sometimes the page loads with no active members showing but then if I refresh the page they show. :angel:
 
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Tonks

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lost members are lost members.


I understand the work flow issue with the new mod change, but do you really think it's going to help? The big problem I see is it is going to create more work in the long run because it will be so much easier for people to have a reasonable complaint of bias when mods who have dramatically different views of a given area are working reports. I know I would raise heck if I had a liberal atheist working one of my reports. Which means more complaints and appeals and a lot more work. We know the system is designed to help guard against bias by requiring a consensus but that won't matter to the members because the perception is more important.

The bias issue is overblown. Having been around for a while the two worst times for bias were 1) when mods were "elected" and 2) in late 2005-2006 when the Catholic - Protestant wars were in full swing. I could care less whether someone is "liberal or conservative" when it comes to working reports. People should be able to work reports with fairly regular neutrality. I'm smart enough to realize that that will not always occur but it really isn't that hard. If there is a demonstrable inability to do so...people should be removed from staff. Likewise, I think that several posters really need to recalibrate their expectations of what CF "is." The number of people that simply cannot post without being a jerk to someone that believes different is fairly surprising. Of course, these are also the first people to complain - loudly and openly - about "bias" (real or perceived) simply because of someone's professed political or theological orientation. Frankly, these people need to grow up and get a life. Or leave. I'm fine with either solution. Staff is not a bunch of boogeymen that is looking to nail people that we disagree with.

I wonder, with these changes will we have a chance to know when we have been reported and be able to defend ourselves like we used to? Or are we to remain at the mercy of spite reporters and have no idea there's an issue until a decision is made?

Open reports aren't coming back (if that is what you're getting at). Whether or not the "reported" tag will show for regular users like it does for staff...I dunno. I'm strongly against the idea as I've seen the problems that it causes...but I may be in the minority on that point. Personally...I really don't care why you (not you...you know what I mean) posted something incredibly flamey and I don't really care to read a long ex post facto explanation of why you thought it was necessary. If it is some random member that never gets reported...I'm will than willing to listen. However - you've seen the report forums - it is the same people over and over. Under the new protocols it is almost impossible to be permanentely banned (it seems) unless something comes down from on high that mandates such a course of action. It will be interesting to see what happens.
 
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CaliforniaJosiah

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CF has simply lost a LOT of members....

Three years ago, I seem to recall that 2,000 + posters on the site at any given moment was quite normal, and in GT (where I tend to make my home), we often had more than 50 signed in and there. Oh, well....

SOME of this, IMHO, is a result of the "war" and some "hurts" and all the constant changes. But, IMHO, it's just how it goes with websites. People like to be where people are. Success breads success, decline is self-perpetuating. I've been a part of two websites that don't even exist anymore - but at their peak, had dozens at the site at any time. Happens. I decided to return to CF, from another site that is now bigger than CF (well, at least the forums I frequent). I like the balance and at least desire to be fair and ecumenical here (as opposed to an apologetic agenda). I HOPE to be a part of re-building CF and turning the tide. I've emailed lots of friends, encouraging them to come here, but universally I've gotten, "I remember CF - and I'm staying away!"




.
 
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pgp_protector

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Nadiine

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The bias issue is overblown. Having been around for a while the two worst times for bias were 1) when mods were "elected" and 2) in late 2005-2006 when the Catholic - Protestant wars were in full swing. I could care less whether someone is "liberal or conservative" when it comes to working reports. People should be able to work reports with fairly regular neutrality. I'm smart enough to realize that that will not always occur but it really isn't that hard. If there is a demonstrable inability to do so...people should be removed from staff. Likewise, I think that several posters really need to recalibrate their expectations of what CF "is." The number of people that simply cannot post without being a jerk to someone that believes different is fairly surprising. Of course, these are also the first people to complain - loudly and openly - about "bias" (real or perceived) simply because of someone's professed political or theological orientation. Frankly, these people need to grow up and get a life. Or leave. I'm fine with either solution. Staff is not a bunch of boogeymen that is looking to nail people that we disagree with.



Open reports aren't coming back (if that is what you're getting at). Whether or not the "reported" tag will show for regular users like it does for staff...I dunno. I'm strongly against the idea as I've seen the problems that it causes...but I may be in the minority on that point. Personally...I really don't care why you (not you...you know what I mean) posted something incredibly flamey and I don't really care to read a long ex post facto explanation of why you thought it was necessary. If it is some random member that never gets reported...I'm will than willing to listen. However - you've seen the report forums - it is the same people over and over. Under the new protocols it is almost impossible to be permanentely banned (it seems) unless something comes down from on high that mandates such a course of action. It will be interesting to see what happens.
As far as I see this, the site is trying to unite 2 complete opposites
& that is causing most all the trouble.
I almost wish they'de consider a split of CF into liberal/unorthodox &
conservative/orthodox & keep them apart than try to pretend the 2
will ever mesh politically or spiritually in either worldview & MOST of
the conservatives I know who've left have left due to the
this war. (probly equally liberal as well).

& as I see it, as the 2 are growing further & further apart, the
screws are tightening w/ the rules to keep people from being able
to say as much against the other group. Tightening the rules
doesn't change the source of the problem & people get
exhasperated & post much less.

CJ has a point that when something is hemorraging, people do tend to
go with the tide & just bail ship with the rest to find another
popular site.

I'd also like to say that some transparency regarding staff is also
very necessary - as it is, the power has shifted far too much on both sides over the past year & 1/2.
The elections of mods didn't work well (mods had too little control & were at the utter mercy of members in that fiasco of a time) -
then what we have now which is everything is blind on member's ends, we can't speak out in any posts (open criticism/displeasure is silenced - & I know some people's rants have been obnoxious & needed to be kept in some sort of check),
rules have been changing to start reading more into posts to decide violations, & we can't explain our reported posts, let alone even know they were reported or anything.

The control needs to be balanced & being at staff's mercy to this
extent is truly unsettling; esp. when you know some dislike you.

The atmosphere here feels like it's changed.
 
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Nadiine

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CF has simply lost a LOT of members....

Three years ago, I seem to recall that 2,000 + posters on the site at any given moment was quite normal, and in GT (where I tend to make my home), we often had more than 50 signed in and there. Oh, well....

SOME of this, IMHO, is a result of the "war" and some "hurts" and all the constant changes. But, IMHO, it's just how it goes with websites. People like to be where people are. Success breads success, decline is self-perpetuating. I've been a part of two websites that don't even exist anymore - but at their peak, had dozens at the site at any time. Happens. I decided to return to CF, from another site that is now bigger than CF (well, at least the forums I frequent). I like the balance and at least desire to be fair and ecumenical here (as opposed to an apologetic agenda). I HOPE to be a part of re-building CF and turning the tide. I've emailed lots of friends, encouraging them to come here, but universally I've gotten, "I remember CF - and I'm staying away!"
I never left even when it's gotten really bad.
Maybe I'm just tired -- but I do think format needs to be changed
if this will revive again. & by that, I mean specific groups that are
posting are only in a full blown war.
Theology is in shambles -
you have people with Christian icons claiming sex outside marriage is just fine, polygamy, homosexuality, open nudity & Lord knows whatever else -

& the orthodox who are blown away by the blatant condonement
& support of sin in God's name. It's gotten out of hand imo.
& that does nothing but keep people away as they see those battles
raging on.
 
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mont974x4

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Tonks, it doesn't matter what you say or what the policy is, or even the intention of mods to be unbiased the issue is the perception of the members and how they re-act to it, knowing that none of us can truly be unbiased and knowing that we have mods of various faiths now allowed to mod outside of their zone of understanding. The reason the new idea is bad is the same reason congregational areas are supposed to be safe zones.
 
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mont974x4

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I never left even when it's gotten really bad.
Maybe I'm just tired -- but I do think format needs to be changed
if this will revive again. & by that, I mean specific groups that are
posting are only in a full blown war.
Theology is in shambles -
you have people with Christian icons claiming sex outside marriage is just fine, polygamy, homosexuality, open nudity & Lord knows whatever else -

& the orthodox who are blown away by the blatant condonement
& support of sin in God's name. It's gotten out of hand imo.
& that does nothing but keep people away as they see those battles
raging on.

Don't forget people getting reported, counseled, and their posts deletd or edited for flaming for simply saying something is a sin when the Bible itself says it's a sin....and now a humanist, buddhist, or person from another faithgroup can mod my posts? :doh:And it's not supposed to be a reason to be concerned?
 
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Nadiine

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Don't forget people getting reported, counseled, and their posts deletd or edited for flaming for simply saying something is a sin when the Bible itself says it's a sin....and now a humanist, buddhist, or person from another faithgroup can mod my posts? :doh:And it's not supposed to be a reason to be concerned?
The line should be drawn at Christian mods only - on a Christian site.
Unless they want to put non Christians in the nonChristian areas maybe.
I'm not sure on that one.

But yes, Angel4Truth who's a wonderful witness for the Lord got posts
removed for quoting scriptures on sin like that - so it's gotten sketchy
in how we can even stand in our own doctrines & claim things are false
without violation.
For the first time a few wks back, I actually had to remove a section of
a verse becuz I knew it would get me in trouble.
SAD.

At that point, I don't see how a site can even claim it's Christian - or just
do everyone a favor & change the definition of what one is & make
the dividing lines where they need to be.
If they go liberal, I'm outta here & they can have CF as their playground.
 
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Nadiine

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you have people with Christian icons claiming sex outside marriage is just fine, polygamy, homosexuality, open nudity & Lord knows whatever else -
sorry, I forgot to add one in a current thread,
some are supporting "Christian Swingers" -
people who swap spouses is fine too.

:dead:
 
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