Do good people always go to hell?

[Reverend DSD]

Ok, so the name of the thread may be a little off, but I got to thinking and was just curious to the views of others. So consider this hypothetical situation...

If there is a man living in a country that is untouched by Christianity. Nobody in the area has any clue that it even exists (so this would be a primitive culture). If there was a man in that group who was truely in every sense of the word, a good man. Never committed a "sin" in his life. If he dies does he go straight to hell because he was never "saved"? Now I'm not bashing any religions or ideas, I am just curious to see what the overall Christian view on this is? And most of all do you think (whatever you answer is) is fair? What do you all think?

Sincerely,
Rev. DSD

 

[Theresa]

Well, he had to have committed at least one sin, we all do.

But, it's called invincible ignorance. They were ignorant of God not of their own choosing. It appears that in Rom 1 there is a different criteria for Judgement, their conscience.

 

[wonder111]

some may argue that the truth is written on our hearts and in our conscience, so there is a way for God to reveal himself to anyone. A good book is "eternity on their hearts" by Don Richardson he is a missionary and writes of many different tribes around the world who already had the truth revealed to them (not by humans), and some were even expecting to meet this missionary. anways, an interesting read

 

[Rafael]

Only God knows how to judge that which He creates - not us, yet by our sinful nature, we just can't help imagining these scenerios that always hold God up to being guilty of unfair judgment. It just is not so. Since we have no more than imagination when it comes to creating life, judging according to what has been given in that creation of life is impossible for us to know. Leaving these matters of judgment to God honors Him with our faith and trust. Surely He is worthy of that instead of our imaginations that make Him unjustly to seem evil. There is a standard given that covers everyone in Jesus, but who knows what chances have been given to each person, and who can limit God's ability to reveal His salvation to these people?

Those who know better are held to a higher standard of judgment:

Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

 

[shprdslamb7]

Precisely what that above posters wrote. Clearly, people can look at creation and know that there is a Creator. Some of them chose to know God and listen to their conscience.

 

[MattMMMan17]

This thread is basically on the same topic. I hope some of the responses help. http://www.christianforums.com/t68581

 

[Reverend DSD]

Ok let me change the question around a little. The same man, never sinned in his life, but is of a different religion. Not because he hated Christians but because he was just raised to believe something else. Is he going to hell? And do you agree with it?

 

[wonder111]

Ok let me change the question around a little. The same man, never sinned in his life, but is of a different religion. Not because he hated Christians but because he was just raised to believe something else. Is he going to hell? And do you agree with it?

well, I would never agree to that if it was my choice, and someone asked me "am I more merciful than God?" i don't think so.

I posted this somewhere else, but I will add it here to.


It's kind of like the parable about the camel passing through the eye of a needle. That's impossible for us, but somehow it's possible through God. When the people asked Jesus "if a rich man can't enter heaven? than who can?" Jesus replied "with God all things are possible" he said it was basically impossible for a rich man to go to heaven, but many important figures in the bible were very very rich, and that would mean they can't get to heaven, but with God all things are possible.

 

[set free in Christ]

1. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
2. God will do all judging and since he is perfect his judgments will be perfect.

Remember the story of Hellen Keller. Blind and deaf from birth she still new who God was. I think the comment after she learned to communicate was...oh that is who that is!

 

[Rafael]

It is not for man to judge. The Holy Spirit speaks to each man, and that individuals response to the Holy Spirit is known only by God. We, as beings may observe some of the fruit of that relationship, but never know what a person sees or knows at death.

 

[Raterus]

Are you saying God is hard to find? You worry about yourself and let God worry about them.

 

[Svt4Him]

"No one will go to hell because they haven’t heard of Jesus Christ. The heathen will go to hell for murder, rape, adultery, lust, theft, lying, etc. Sin is not failing to hear the gospel. Rather, "sin is the transgression of the Law" (1 John 3:4). If we really care about the lost, we will become missionaries and take the good news of God’s forgiveness in Christ to them. "

Ray Comfort

 

[shprdslamb7]

It's kind of like the parable about the camel passing through the eye of a needle. That's impossible for us, but somehow it's possible through God. When the people asked Jesus "if a rich man can't enter heaven? than who can?" Jesus replied "with God all things are possible" he said it was basically impossible for a rich man to go to heaven, but many important figures in the bible were very very rich, and that would mean they can't get to heaven, but with God all things are possible.

What I have heard regarding this passage is that there was a part of the gate that the camels would have to get on their knees to pass through. It was called "the needle".

So, rich man...not impossible, but, certainly, hard for him to do...just like the camel.

Rev DSD,
If that man has never heard the Gospel and is following another religion....it still depends on if he is truly "following God" with his conscience.

Now, if that same man heard the Gospel and rejected...well, then, he rejected. And, we know that by rejecting you are not allowed to enter into Heaven.

 

[wonder111]

What I have heard regarding this passage is that there was a part of the gate that the camels would have to get on their knees to pass through. It was called "the needle".

interesting! so is the eye the centre of the passage?

 

[Reverend DSD]

Ok well I will add on more question. The same man (remember this is hypothetical) did nothing but good in his life, never sinned. Knew the bible, but didn't think it felt right in his heart so he never really believed in god. Not because he disagreed with it, wanted to believe it just didn't make sense to him. He was a good man though, never did any harm in his life. Does he go to hell for enernity simply because in his mind he never found god (even though he was looking?). And do you agree with it? I'm not asking you to make a judgement, just do you agree or disagree with your answer?

Rev. DSD

 

[wonder111]

Ok well I will add on more question. The same man (remember this is hypothetical) did nothing but good in his life, never sinned. Knew the bible, but didn't think it felt right in his heart so he never really believed in god. Not because he disagreed with it, wanted to believe it just didn't make sense to him. He was a good man though, never did any harm in his life. Does he go to hell for enernity simply because in his mind he never found god (even though he was looking?). And do you agree with it? I'm not asking you to make a judgement, just do you agree or disagree with your answer?

Rev. DSD

well that's just it, everyone will think differently. But if to God all things are possible, than who are we to say who God accepts, and even how he does it. I am also a firm believer in "seek and you shall find" even if we don't find it the same way everyone else does.

Jesus never denounced sinners. He reserved that for the hypocritical, self-righteous religious leaders who did not draw people to God by mirroring His loving compassion. So we shouldn't make judgements about who is saved and who is not. That is God's business. Jesus said (to the chief priests and elders) "I tell you solemnly, tax-collectors and prostitutes are making their way into the kingdom of heaven before you" (Matt.21:31).

 

[shprdslamb7]

I tell you solemnly, tax-collectors and prostitutes are making their way into the kingdom of heaven before you

Ahh, but who was He talking to? The ones that DID NOT believe. The prostitutes and tax collectors did.

Yes, if that "good man" hears the Gospel and chooses to reject it (by not accepting that Jesus paid our sins)...he will go to hell. The only way that we can pay our own sins, ourselves, is to go to hell. Jesus paid the price so we wouldn't have to do that....but, we have to accept what He did. He was the Lamb (burnt offering in the OT) that was slaughtered and sacrificed for our sin.

There would have been no point in Jesus dying on the cross if we could do it ourselves by being "good". That is what God was trying to show us.

interesting! so is the eye the centre of the passage?

I would assume.

 

[Reverend DSD]

Ok hold on, first of all I did specifically say that this was a hypothetical person, also stating that they had committed no sins. And I am not saying that they rejected the "word of god", but didn't understand it, didn't find any personal truth in it. Not saying that it was wrong or incorrect. I don't know maybe this was a tough question to understand or a bad topic to bring up in the first place however I am just seeing flaws in the whole idea of a person suffering for an eternity or something that he really had no control over even though he was morally and ethically a very good person.

Rev. DSD

 

[Ragman]

Ok, so the name of the thread may be a little off, but I got to thinking and was just curious to the views of others. So consider this hypothetical situation...

If there is a man living in a country that is untouched by Christianity. Nobody in the area has any clue that it even exists (so this would be a primitive culture). If there was a man in that group who was truely in every sense of the word, a good man. Never committed a "sin" in his life. If he dies does he go straight to hell because he was never "saved"? Now I'm not bashing any religions or ideas, I am just curious to see what the overall Christian view on this is? And most of all do you think (whatever you answer is) is fair? What do you all think?

Sincerely,
Rev. DSD

Rev:

We must agree that the example is stated is quite "hypothetical", since we "all" have our "stuff".

Nonetheless, there is only one source of true goodness. There is superficial goodness, which is doing good things or acting good in order to control circumstances in my life to avoid pain or to get what I want-a form of manipulating circumstances and others. This is not true goodness.

But there is only one source of true goodness, and it does not originate within ourselves. As Jesus said, "There is only one that is good....." and as James states, "every good and perfect gift comes from the Father of lights...". And all mankind has their being and are connected to God in the Son. For all mankind (indeed creation) was made through the Son (Jn. 1:1) and exists in Him (Col. 1:17) and in Him we live and move and have our being (Acts 17:28). I have said this to make that point that all humanity is connected and united to God in Christ.

Now back to your illustration, if there were a man in an land untouched by Christianity who was truly good. His goodness can only come from the life of the Father, Son and Spirit of whom He is included in the Son. His receiving this goodness and sharing it with others is to "receive" the Son and live in Him. Certainly He does not know the "prayer", but salvation is not primarily geographical, but personal and relational. And this man is receiving Christ.

When he dies and he sees Jesus face to face. I am sure that he will recognize Him and the source of His very life.

Ragman

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

What I have heard regarding this passage is that there was a part of the gate that the camels would have to get on their knees to pass through. It was called "the needle".

So, rich man...not impossible, but, certainly, hard for him to do...just like the camel.

Alas, this is the Christian equivalent of an urban myth. Often told, but no real basis in fact - mentioned here: http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.htm

It's simple hyperbole, and aimed at destroying the common misconception at the time that riches meant God's favour, and therefore being in a good position for salvation.