Do facts actualy point to a Creator?

[Extraneous]

I also want a pony. Does this mean someone is going to give me a pony? I want to fly. Does this mean someone is going to give me the power of independent flight?

No sir, it doesn't. However, we want to understand all the mysteries of the universe, but does that mean we will? No, but we search anyway. Its not illogical to seek God.

 

[Chris B]

The fact that we don't want to die, this points to a creator. .

No. It points at least as well to each of us being at the end of an incredibly long line of those successfully fulfilling a desire to live and to breed. Genes not supporting these characteristics tend to get eliminated by failure to live and reproduce.
We have been very much programmed, blindly, by success.

Ephesians 5:29 For no one ever hated his own flesh...

Well that's not true.
"I hate my own body" (in quotes) in Google returns "[a]bout 19,500 results"
Without the quotation marks it returns "[a]bout 119,000,000 results"

 

[The Cadet]

No sir, it doesn't. However, we want to understand all the mysteries of the universe, but does that mean we will? No, but we search anyway. Its not illogical to seek God.

Is it illogical for me to search for a magical flight-giver? You're conflating a bunch of different things and what you're saying makes no sense.

 

[Extraneous]

No. It points at least as well to each of us being at the end of an incredibly long line of those successfully fulfilling a desire to live and to breed. Genes not supporting these characteristics tend to get eliminated by failure to live and reproduce.
We have been very much programmed, blindly, by success.



Well that's not true.
"I hate my own body" (in quotes) in Google returns "[a]bout 19,500 results"
Without the quotation marks it returns "[a]bout 119,000,000 results"

The flesh mentioned they may be life itself, not our body necessarily, and it may also refer to family instead. It doesn't matter to me though, because i know whats in my heart and how it has helped me. You will be in for a surprise one day friend. Im convinced of that. If not in this life, then afterward.

 

[Extraneous]

Is it illogical for me to search for a magical flight-giver? You're conflating a bunch of different things and what you're saying makes no sense.

I never refereed to such a thing. Talking to Atheists is like talking to a robot. No heart and soul. Have a pleasant day friend.

 

[The Cadet]

I never refereed to such a thing. Talking to Atheists is like talking to a robot. No heart and soul. Have a pleasant day friend.

If talking to atheists is like talking to the tin man, then talking to theists is like talking to the scarecrow.

 

[bhsmte]

The flesh mentioned they may be life itself, not our body necessarily, and it may also refer to family instead. It doesn't matter to me though, because i know whats in my heart and how it has helped me. You will be in for a surprise one day friend. Im convinced of that. If not in this life, then afterward.

I always get a kick, when the threat card is used by christians.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Doesn't the fact that "we" don't know at this point in human history seem bizarre to you?

Errr... no.
We barely have a proper grasp on quantum mechanics.
We barely have a proper understanding of what gravity is.

I mean, how many brilliant people, way smarter than you and I, have tried to answer this question and still "we've" failed to find the true answer?

So?

And where are the aliens!! "We" need help figuring this out!!

If by "help" you mean "more study, more research, more science", then I agree.

What if the answer is so simple that collective human knowledge has just passed right by it in the pursuit for more knowledge and less truth?

"What if we missed it" ... ?
Well, then we've missed it. And we won't know until someone discovers it.

Just venting some thoughts.

Quite silly thoughts, imo.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The fact that we don't want to die, this points to a creator. Who else will we call upon to make us live, instead of die? If we deny that we want to live forever, then we deny the truth that is in us.

It seems to be a property of living things that they try to survive.

Last time I checked, it's a logical "beneficial" trait to have in living things, to try and survive.

I don't see how this requires a god existing.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Cause and effect are quite established. To claim cause and effect are not relevant or active is the end of scientific discovery. I'm afraid that the given argument is literally, the end of reason.

It's also quite established causes preceed effects. As in, they happen before the effects happen.

Tell me, how do you have anything happening before T = 0?

 

[DogmaHunter]

No, but in the end we will still want to live, and no logical argument is needed to prove this. Who will you call on? Yourself?

Who does the Gazelle call on when it flees from the Lion?

 

[Hieronymus]

The teleological argument is very strong.
So yes, facts point to a creator.
(chiming in very late...)

 

[DogmaHunter]

I never refereed to such a thing. Talking to Atheists is like talking to a robot. No heart and soul. Have a pleasant day friend.

I'm not sure what you are saying here, but it smells like an insult and attack on my person, being an atheist.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Talking to Atheists is like talking to a robot. No heart and soul.

Does talking to someone with a heart and soul mean that they just automatically agree with you instead of using logic and critical thinking skills, by any chance?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[DogmaHunter]

The teleological argument is very strong.

The teleological argument is a fallacy.

 

[Hieronymus]

....because the universe is apparently fine tuned...
By chance?
The probability of that is infinitesimally small, so it does not point to chance, at all..

 

[Hieronymus]

Does talking to someone with a heart and soul mean that they just automatically agree with you instead of using logic and critical thinking skills, by any chance?


eudaimonia,

Mark

No need to prove his point.

 

[DogmaHunter]

....because the universe is apparently fine tuned...

Did you expect a universe with parameters that did not allow for our existence?

It's funny really, because if we would actually find ourselves in a universe in which we, in fact, could not exist, but exist anyway,... now THAT would require an extra ordinary explanation (like god(s)).

However, that is not the case.

I don't see what is so surprising about the fact that we live in a universe in which we can live.

By chance?

Says who? For all you know, this is the only way a universe can exist.

The probability of that is infinitesimally small, so it does not point to chance, at all..

How do you calculate the probability of a universe with these parameters if:
- you have just this one example
and
- you don't know how universes come about

??

 

[Extraneous]

Does talking to someone with a heart and soul mean that they just automatically agree with you instead of using logic and critical thinking skills, by any chance?


eudaimonia,

Mark

I love star trek. I tried using thinking skills, to talk about the heart of man, but unless it can be seen under a microscope, people wont believe it exists, even though its already inside them. Even Spock had a heart, he was half human.

 

[Eudaimonist]

The fact that we don't want to die, this points to a creator.

Only with great ambiguity. It also points to a survival instinct that is a product of evolution.

Who else will we call upon to make us live, instead of die?

Ourselves and medical experts, as much as we can manage.

If we deny that we want to live forever, then we deny the truth that is in us.

I don't want to live forever. A few thousand years, sure. It is unclear that we could stay sane living forever.


eudaimonia,

Mark