Do Creationists Believe in the Universe

[AV1611VET]

Why pretend anything other than evaporation occurred? Exactly as described by the Bible?

Then where did the waters come from, when God opened the windows of Heaven to [play on words] precipitate [/play on words] the Flood?

Specifically "the waters which were above the firmament."[VERSE=Genesis 1:7,KJV]And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.[/VERSE]

 

[Givemeareason]

Is there one of any theory? Get 10 people in a room and you'll have 11 different views of any subject you care to name.

But isn't there a consensus view of interpreting Genesis creation?

 

[AV1611VET]

Is there one of any theory? Get 10 people in a room and you'll have 11 different views of any subject you care to name.

With the exception of one: IN THE BEGINNING, GOD.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Then where did the waters come from, when God opened the windows of Heaven to [play on words] precipitate [/play on words] the Flood?

That is, the "waters which were above the firmament."[VERSE=Genesis 1:7,KJV]And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.[/VERSE]

From those same waters that are still there, right back where they started from.

http://biblehub.com/genesis/7-11.htm

http://www.iflscience.com/environment/huge-underground-ocean-discovered-towards-earths-core

http://www.weather.com/science/news/oceans-water-discovered-deep-beneath-north-america-20140613

Notice before it rained - the underground oceans all first erupted. Now you know how long it will rain if a lot of that water underground shoots up into the high stratosphere. About 40 days and nights I'd say.

Don't you know water is an electrical event?

http://www.space.com/27377-moon-water-origin-solar-wind.html

 

[AV1611VET]

At what point does earth interact and become part of the solar system orbiting the sun?

On Day Four of the creation week.[VERSE=Genesis 1:16,KJV]And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.[/VERSE]

Presumably the sun and the other planets had not formed yet?

They never "formed" [by accretion] in the first place.

They were created ex nihilo.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

But it's time to get back on topic, since this is a post about the universe and apparently the Big Bang - not how the earth was created. Or are we just sidetracking things to not discuss the universe?

 

[AV1611VET]

From those same waters that are still there, right back where they started from.

http://biblehub.com/genesis/7-11.htm

http://www.iflscience.com/environment/huge-underground-ocean-discovered-towards-earths-core

http://www.weather.com/science/news/oceans-water-discovered-deep-beneath-north-america-20140613

Notice before it rained - the underground oceans all first erupted. Now you know how long it will rain if a lot of that water underground shoots up into the high stratosphere. About 40 days and nights I'd say.

I'm familiar with those links.

But your theory presents a problem with literalism.

The waters below and the waters above were created before the land was created.

Don't you know water is an electrical event?

If you say so.

Electro-chemical, I would assume.

 

[Givemeareason]

Is there a contest I wasn't aware of to see who could make the most ridiculous post? Yours has my vote.
Do evolutionists believe in kitchens, since they seem to thing that things can create themselves, from the universe to first life, to a peach cobbler.
The Big Bang happened on day four, when the entity called light became the sun, moon and stars. We don't deny the Big bang, just your failed and ridiculous version of it.

Don't you ever get tired of falsely accusing Bible believers of believing in geocentrism?

By modern I presume you mean your opinion.

This is not about my view. I am just trying to understand your views and what they actually are. Obviously science is taken into account and I am trying to see how that is reconciled.

 

[Givemeareason]

But it's time to get back on topic, since this is a post about the universe and apparently the Big Bang - not how the earth was created. Or are we just sidetracking things to not discuss the universe?

But how could the big bang and the universe have occurred if the earth were already here?

 

[KWCrazy]

But how could the big bang and the universe have occurred if the earth were already here?

The earth was already here.
There was a big bang, it you will; the rapid explosion of the singularity once called "Light" that became the sun, moon, stars and the known universe. Science now has a theory called "inflation theory" which essentially admits that the universe was fully formed as it rapidly expanded from a singular point. This universe surrounded the earth but did not displace it. The earth took its intended spot in the Milky Way galaxy. There was no simple explosion, because the universe has no blast pattern. It has patterns and order, and it all came about on day four.

Everything God does is for reason. In think at times the reason is that He chooses methods which cannot be confused with natural processes to prove that He is the supernatural Creator. While we come to God now through faith and He doesn't prove anything to the non-believers, when we were under the law He did so repeatedly. We have the Scriptures that state how He froze the sun in the sky for a day.... or suspended time. We can read about His miracles and sometimes hear from people who have experienced them. We can accept it or reject it. We can't prove it or disprove it.

 

[JustHisKid]

I started to wonder if Creationists even believe in the universe since I know they argue against the Big Bang. Since there was no concept of the universe when Genesis was written I am wondering if they also deny the universe in order to retain the earth centered view of all existence. Otherwise, I don't see how they can reconcile belief in Genesis with the modern view of the universe.

Seriously?

 

[Justatruthseeker]

I'm familiar with those links.

But your theory presents a problem with literalism.

The waters below and the waters above were created before the land was created.If you say so.

Electro-chemical, I would assume.

Except it wasn't, the entire universe, and the earth, were created in verse 1.

The earth "became" desolate and waste - the dinosaurs died out because of those waters. Dry land wasn't created - it appeared when the waters were separated through evaporation - a literal translation since that's how we know it happens. You ever seen water magically float upwards?

"And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so."

Dry land appeared because the waters were gathered into one place - underground and in the oceans. According to you they were already in one place, so could not have been gathered anywhere. Dry land appeared because land was already there previously - it just needed the water removed from it.

 

[AV1611VET]

Dry land appeared because the waters were gathered into one place - underground and in the oceans.

Underground and in the oceans are not "one place."

According to you they were already in one place, so could not have been gathered anywhere. Dry land appeared because land was already there previously - it just needed the water removed from it.

"Gathered" means "stand aside."

If you have 30 men in a company gathered around 5 civilians, the company commander might say, "Stand aside and let the civilians come forth."

 

[Weaser999]

I was referring to young earth creationism primarily or any creationism where Genesis is claimed to be taken literally. In Genesis the earth is created before the sun or the stars. Thus the earth was supposedly at the center.

Didn't it say in the Bible that God created light first?

 

[Givemeareason]

Just

The earth was already here.
There was a big bang, it you will; the rapid explosion of the singularity once called "Light" that became the sun, moon, stars and the known universe. Science now has a theory called "inflation theory" which essentially admits that the universe was fully formed as it rapidly expanded from a singular point. This universe surrounded the earth but did not displace it. The earth took its intended spot in the Milky Way galaxy. There was no simple explosion, because the universe has no blast pattern. It has patterns and order, and it all came about on day four.

Everything God does is for reason. In think at times the reason is that He chooses methods which cannot be confused with natural processes to prove that He is the supernatural Creator. While we come to God now through faith and He doesn't prove anything to the non-believers, when we were under the law He did so repeatedly. We have the Scriptures that state how He froze the sun in the sky for a day.... or suspended time. We can read about His miracles and sometimes hear from people who have experienced them. We can accept it or reject it. We can't prove it or disprove it.

Just to be clear I am only trying to understand views. This is not about faith or even beliefs. I notice that AIG which claims to be the largest creationism organization in the US does not support the Big Bang at all. Either way it seems the earth was here first and the universe was created around us. Is that correct?

 

[Givemeareason]

No.

Didn't it say in the Bible that God created light first?

Heaven and earth were created first.

 

[KWCrazy]

Either way it seems the earth was here first and the universe was created around us. Is that correct?

That would be consistent with what we read in Genesis 1.
There is a disclaimer.
Stars in other galaxies are not close enough to be useful for signs and seasons. There is nothing that declares whether they were or were not in existence. Forming the sun, moon and stars could have meant the totality of the universe or our galaxy. This is never explained. There are millions of questions unanswered because to answer them all the text would be too voluminous to read.

 

[Ben West]

God created the universe and all that is in it. God created all things.

In the beginning of the perfect physical third Heaven God brought into the physical world, from things which do not appear, the Heaven/air and the Earth/ground. But the ground was without form and void/empty and darkness/death was upon the deep/water which came from the gases in the Heaven/air. At this time, there was NO physical Earth but only ground without form/dust.

God moved/brooded on the face of the waters because of the death which was upon everything He had created APART from Himself. EVERYthing apart from God is subject to death and it moved God and He Spoke:

Let there be Light. Jesus IS the Light of the first Day and He came into the physical world from within the invisible Spirit of God. Jesus will form/shape the air, dust and water into everything which exists in the physical world and He will give life to Humans, beasts of the field and fowl of the air.

The first firmament which God called Heaven was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8
The other firmaments/heavens (the present Cosmos and the Third Heaven) were made on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4 Amen?

 

[AV1611VET]

God moved/brooded ...

Which was it?

Did He move, or did He brood?

Or did He move brooding?

 

[Givemeareason]

That would be consistent with what we read in Genesis 1.
There is a disclaimer.
Stars in other galaxies are not close enough to be useful for signs and seasons. There is nothing that declares whether they were or were not in existence. Forming the sun, moon and stars could have meant the totality of the universe or our galaxy. This is never explained. There are millions of questions unanswered because to answer them all the text would be too voluminous to read.

I am reading another literal interpretation of Genesis in which it argues that the creation events of the fourth day only made things visible as they had been obscured from view due to the accretion disk from the formation of the earth. In other words the sun, moon and stars were there all along. So is it just a matter of understanding its interpretation?