Do Creationists Believe in Talking Snakes?

[Religiot]

I’ve seen no such verse, and that’s probably because a devil speaking through a possessed animal is impossible.

Where in the bible does it say that's impossible? [Staff Edit]

 

[Religiot]

I assume that you didn’t bother to read my comment in posts #48 and #49 or you wouldn’t be saying this. I explained in considerable detail why this identification of serpents is both strained and actually impossible.

I must also assume that you failed to read the various explanations provided to you on this thread, by various posters, that demonstrate the absurdity of your conclusions.

 

[Religiot]

Sorry, I really don't know the location. You're right, it sounds like something they would have. I was just pointing out that traditionally the pre-fall snake has been pictured with legs.

Yes--dragons are usually depicted with legs...

 

[Religiot]

BH: “So you have faith in what Darwin believed.”

What Darwin believed has nothing to do with it. No one believes that Charles Darwin was a prophet. Darwin arrived at natural selection by following the facts. Today, scientists are still following the facts.

It is apparent that you've not taken the time to hear the arguments against Darwin's theory... Today, actual scientists spend their time in performing experiments, not in believing theories: theoretical scientists are merely professional conjecturers, who have abandoned the scientific method for fantasy and fame.

 

[Religiot]

Where did you get that idea? Just look at limestone. Limestone consists of immense numbers of microorganisms along with other fossils. It is simply impossible for that many organisms to have lived at one time. Only millions of generations of these organisms could do it.

...really? micro organisms in immense numbers? --you claim that it is impossible for immense numbers of micro organisms, that are presently contained in fossilized form in limestone, that it is impossible for that many to have lived at one time... ... ...where did you get that idea, and how can you reconcile that that is exactly how we find micro organisms living today? --Truly, I'd love to hear it.

 

[Religiot]

It is obvious to me that the Eden story is a parable.

If it is truly "obvious", then it is an observation; so please, point us to where in the bible we may also observe this.

 

[Religiot]

Yes there are animals that have been known to talk, Einstien the African parrot with a vocabulary of over a 100 words! The last words it said to his trainer before passing away were "See you tomorrow, be good. I love you!".

Then there's Kiwi the Budgie, the talking parrot that sounds astonishingly human!

Or Hoover the talking seal who began to pick up on word and talked with the thick Boston accent of it's handler!
If these creatures talked on their own or were trained to do so! How hard would it be for GOD, or even satan or demons to enter into animals causing them to talk?

Not hard at all, but very natural indeed--for those with eyes to see.

 

[Religiot]

I don't see what the talking donkey in Numbers has to do with the Eden story in Genesis.

Genesis says that the snake was a creature. Creationists keep telling me that Satan caused the serpent to speak. But it isn't Satan that caused the donkey to talk in Numbers, so what is the connection?

An obvious one, to some, and impossible for most.

 

[coffee4u]

Coffee, do you doubt that the earth's crust has layers?

I only just saw this.

The flood laid down layers, but that's not to say God didn't create the earth in layers as well. Nothing in scripture says if he did or not. If it has layers down to the core who can say? It also doesn't matter. The core could be larva, rock or water, it is whatever God created it to be.

The Bible however has plenty to say on creation, sin, the fall and the flood.

 

[Dale]

I only just saw this.

The flood laid down layers, but that's not to say God didn't create the earth in layers as well. Nothing in scripture says if he did or not. If it has layers down to the core who can say? It also doesn't matter. The core could be larva, rock or water, it is whatever God created it to be.

The Bible however has plenty to say on creation, sin, the fall and the flood.

It sounds like you don’t care how many layers there are or how they got there.

Here is something that creationists don’t seem to know. In areas where there are oil bearing strata, it is common that there is more than one layer that contains oil. Oil was laid down at different depths at different times in geologic history.

Where I live in Florida, we depend heavily on ground water, which is found in aquifers. There isn’t just one aquifer, they are found in different layers. I believe that there are as many as four aquifers that can be easily identified, at different depths. You don’t have to be a scientist to know this. I’m sure that well-drillers know it. Surely God doesn’t object to our knowing what every well driller knows. Yes, there are many layers in the earth’s crust and they were laid down at different times in geologic history.

 

[coffee4u]

It sounds like you don’t care how many layers there are or how they got there.

Here is something that creationists don’t seem to know. In areas where there are oil bearing strata, it is common that there is more than one layer that contains oil. Oil was laid down at different depths at different times in geologic history.

Where I live in Florida, we depend heavily on ground water, which is found in aquifers. There isn’t just one aquifer, they are found in different layers. I believe that there are as many as four aquifers that can be easily identified, at different depths. You don’t have to be a scientist to know this. I’m sure that well-drillers know it. Surely God doesn’t object to our knowing what every well driller knows. Yes, there are many layers in the earth’s crust and they were laid down at different times in geologic history.

Layers got there because God created them and the flood caused more.

I am not bothered by secular science and it's assumptions.

God says he created in 6 days -So God created in 6 days.
Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.

Science is simply humans trying to make sense of what they see; who weren't there, who don't know everything. They may be very clever but they are fallible, God is infallible.
1 Corinthians 2:5

5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.

 

[Dale]

Layers got there because God created them and the flood caused more.

I am not bothered by secular science and it's assumptions.

God says he created in 6 days -So God created in 6 days.
Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.

Science is simply humans trying to make sense of what they see; who weren't there, who don't know everything. They may be very clever but they are fallible, God is infallible.
1 Corinthians 2:5

5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.

Coffee: “I am not bothered by secular science and it's assumptions.”

You mean that you aren’t interested in the physical world. Jesus didn’t say that you have to be interested in the physical world but if you aren’t you shouldn’t mock those who are. The physical world is God’s creation and there is a lot that can be learned from it.

When you are ill, do you go to someone who knows the Bible or someone who knows modern medicine, an MD? I’m guessing the latter. Are you being consistent?



Coffee: “Layers got there because God created them and the flood caused more.”

“Noah’s Flood” explains nothing and causes nothing but problems.

 

[Dale]

Layers got there because God created them and the flood caused more.

I am not bothered by secular science and it's assumptions.

God says he created in 6 days -So God created in 6 days.
Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.

Science is simply humans trying to make sense of what they see; who weren't there, who don't know everything. They may be very clever but they are fallible, God is infallible.
1 Corinthians 2:5

5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.

Coffee: “God says he created in 6 days -So God created in 6 days.”

It would be more accurate to say that Genesis 1:31 says that God finished creating beasts and birds on the sixth day.

Are you familiar with this passage.

3 You turn people back to dust,
saying, “Return to dust, you mortals.”
4 A thousand years in your sight
are like a day that has just gone by,
or like a watch in the night.
--Psalm 90: 3-4 NIV



"A thousand years in your [God's] sight are like a day ..." In other words, a thousand years to us are like a day to God. If the author of this Psalm were used to dealing with millions or billions he might have said "A million years in your sight are like a day ..." or "A billion years in your sight are like a day ..."

This Psalm is traditionally attributed to Moses, just like the first five books of the Bible. Whoever composed it, the author doesn't share your view that a "day" in the first chapters of Genesis can only mean twenty-four hours as we measure time today. The days in Genesis One could simply be dividers, turning the creation into chapters.

 

[coffee4u]

The physical world is God’s creation and there is a lot that can be learned from it.

The physical world we are on, the world they are testing is not the world God created. That world was as close to perfect as it could be. The whole point of it was to give mankind a taste of Gods plan for the future, the future new heavens and new earth.
The created world was changed and destroyed first at the fall and again at the flood. Its gone. What we are living on is the groaning world.

2Peter 3
5But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world of that time perished in the flood. 7And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

Romans 8:22
We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.

Any tests that come back can tell us about how the world currently works but nothing about how it was.
No death -death
Animals and humans all ate plants -many animals and humans eat meat
Very long life - short life
No weeds or thorns- weeds and thorns
No disease -disease.
No rain/water canopy- rain and hardly any canopy
And those are simply what the Bible tells us changed there were probably far more changes.

When you are ill, do you go to someone who knows the Bible or someone who knows modern medicine, an MD? I’m guessing the latter. Are you being consistent?

Modern medicine can be very good when it actually helps. They can be very good at setting a broken leg or giving medicine when what you have is clear cut. The other half a time they don't help you at all and you end up trying to treat yourself. I was born with a rare condition, I have spent half my life trying to treat myself through diet and herbals and essential oils. Some of which is simply to try and combat the side effects of the medicines I need. (of which I am very grateful for since without them I probably wouldn't be here.) However doctors don't know it all either, of that I am painfully aware since they have failed me countless times. You would do well to not assume any doctor you see will be correct in the diagnoses they give you and go along like a sheep with whatever they say.
One of our friends recently got a phone call and told to come in because he had type one diabetes and they found blood in his urine. They told him he had kidney failure. He had a very worrying few days until it was realized that someone at the lab had got blood from someone else into his sample. Humans make mistakes.

Coffee: “Layers got there because God created them and the flood caused more.”

“Noah’s Flood” explains nothing and causes nothing but problems.

It is not 'Noah's flood' it was God's flood and part of scripture.

Is all scripture God breathed or just some?

 

[DaveISBA]

What Charles Darwin did was present a structure and a process for understanding how and why those changes happen.

Presented a structure and a process for his TOE but having no observable evidence, for the structure or process he imagined, ever occurring! Even admitting as much in his book (On the Origin of Species) Chapter IX p 251: "new varieties continually take the place of and exterminate their parent-form has acted on an enormous scale, (so must the number of intermediate varieties which have formerly existed on earth be truly enormous). Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? (Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain)" My emphasis!

I’ve been surprised by how little time creationists who attack “evolution” spend arguing with the biological theory of evolving species. Instead, they are inexplicably hostile to all of science.

Maybe because there is no need arguing a biological theory of gradualism (Darwin's TOE) that has no observable evidence it ever happened!

 

[DaveISBA]

"they [creationists] are inexplicably hostile to all of science. They spend immense amounts of time arguing with astronomers, cosmologists and geologists, despite knowing nothing of these disciplines."

Apparently your are making this accusation from a position of authority? What is your expertise in the disciplines of astronomy, cosmology and geology?

 

[Dale]

The physical world we are on, the world they are testing is not the world God created. That world was as close to perfect as it could be. The whole point of it was to give mankind a taste of Gods plan for the future, the future new heavens and new earth.
The created world was changed and destroyed first at the fall and again at the flood. Its gone. What we are living on is the groaning world.

2Peter 3
5But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world of that time perished in the flood. 7And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

Romans 8:22
We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.

Any tests that come back can tell us about how the world currently works but nothing about how it was.
No death -death
Animals and humans all ate plants -many animals and humans eat meat
Very long life - short life
No weeds or thorns- weeds and thorns
No disease -disease.
No rain/water canopy- rain and hardly any canopy
And those are simply what the Bible tells us changed there were probably far more changes.



Modern medicine can be very good when it actually helps. They can be very good at setting a broken leg or giving medicine when what you have is clear cut. The other half a time they don't help you at all and you end up trying to treat yourself. I was born with a rare condition, I have spent half my life trying to treat myself through diet and herbals and essential oils. Some of which is simply to try and combat the side effects of the medicines I need. (of which I am very grateful for since without them I probably wouldn't be here.) However doctors don't know it all either, of that I am painfully aware since they have failed me countless times. You would do well to not assume any doctor you see will be correct in the diagnoses they give you and go along like a sheep with whatever they say.
One of our friends recently got a phone call and told to come in because he had type one diabetes and they found blood in his urine. They told him he had kidney failure. He had a very worrying few days until it was realized that someone at the lab had got blood from someone else into his sample. Humans make mistakes.



It is not 'Noah's flood' it was God's flood and part of scripture.

Is all scripture God breathed or just some?

Coffee “The created world was changed and destroyed first at the fall and again at the flood. Its gone.”

I don’t believe this is true. There is no sign that all of creation was damaged at the time of the Expulsion from Eden. Genesis One tells us that the sun, moon and stars were placed by God to mark days, months, years and seasons. This hasn’t changed.

And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky
to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs
to mark seasons and days and years,
and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light
on the earth.” And it was so.
Genesis 1:14-15 NIV

Psalm 104 recapitulates the creation story with no sign of a Fall of Man.

He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. --Psalm 104: 5 NIV

While we know today that the earth moves around the sun, it is placed at the right distance from the sun for life to flourish. It is substantially true that God laid the foundation of the earth, and no event in human history has changed that. Psalm 104 presents a God who is actively involved in His creation.

He waters the mountains from his upper chambers; the earth
is satisfied by the fruit of his work. --Psalm 104:13 NIV

God is not inconceivably remote, as some think. God has not abandoned the earth and the earth is not cut off from God’s attentions.

There is nothing in the Gospels about the world being damaged. The problem is not some horrible event in the past but the tendency of mortals to ignore God and depart from His ways.

 

[Dale]

Presented a structure and a process for his TOE but having no observable evidence, for the structure or process he imagined, ever occurring! Even admitting as much in his book (On the Origin of Species) Chapter IX p 251: "new varieties continually take the place of and exterminate their parent-form has acted on an enormous scale, (so must the number of intermediate varieties which have formerly existed on earth be truly enormous). Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? (Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain)" My emphasis!

Maybe because there is no need arguing a biological theory of gradualism (Darwin's TOE) that has no observable evidence it ever happened!

Dave: “Maybe because there is no need arguing a biological theory of gradualism (Darwin's TOE) that has no observable evidence it ever happened!”

The Geologic Column is well known and it shows simpler forms in the distant past and more complex living things closer to the present.

“Because fossils actually record the slow but progressive development of life, scientists use them to identify rocks of the same age throughout the world.”

“It is shown that the entire geologic column exists in North Dakota.”

“Massive floods leave massive evidence in the geological record. None of these 25 geologic column sites give correlated evidence of a massive, worldwide flood at any time during at least the last 600 million years (to the base of the Cambrian).”

Link
Evolution -- Geology -- Planet Earth

 

[Dale]

Apparently your are making this accusation from a position of authority? What is your expertise in the disciplines of astronomy, cosmology and geology?

Dave: “Apparently your are making this accusation from a position of authority? What is your expertise in the disciplines of astronomy, cosmology and geology?”

It’s a matter of experience. A few years ago, I bought a book from a local church, The Evolution Cruncher. It is about 1100 pages and it’s by a man named Ferrell. He does spend most of his time arguing geology and cosmology. Ferrell makes incredible mistakes, and he probably makes errors that I don’t even catch since I’m not an expert in everything. Ferrell has no clue how gravity works, no idea that the universe is expanding. Ferrell denies that the sun is powered by hydrogen fusion, he says that the slow contraction of the sun is what is producing heat and light. Yet fusion has been demonstrated on earth many times. Why argue with it?

On biology, Ferrell says that there is only one species of hummingbird. Science says there are over 350 species of hummingbird, and more are still being identified. I’ve met a biologist who spent years in South America on expeditions where new birds are sometimes identified.

Ferrell says that a zebra is a type of horse. Science says that there is one species of horse and three species of zebra. What is going on here? It’s not just that he’s wrong, or that he’s wrong about things that can be easily checked. Ferrell convinced me that creationists are people who put their guesses above the conclusions reached by the recognized experts.

 

[Job 33:6]

Apparently your are making this accusation from a position of authority? What is your expertise in the disciplines of astronomy, cosmology and geology?

I'm a geologist and I would agree that there are creationists who are very hostile toward science. Such as ken ham. And Ken ham has never displayed any evidence of familiarity with the sciences he critiques. But he does appear to be well versed with scripture or "hammonism" as it is sometimes referred to.