Do born-again Christians sin?

[Reformationist]

That wasn?t nice. The person is wrong but reporting him would have been the right thing to do instead of personally insulting him, don?t you think?

Yes.

 

[Reformationist]

That wasn?t nice. The person is wrong but reporting him would have been the right thing to do instead of personally insulting him, don?t you think?

Strange though...you're not so clear headed when someone is calling your beliefs hell spawn...

Maybe you don't feel that much differently than he does.

 

[Reformationist]

Don,

When I ask you if Christ is secondary, I am asking if you see your salvation coming from Him or coming from the fact that you believe God regenerated you?

My salvation was granted because Jesus' death was effective in appeasing the wrath of God against me. By virtue of the righteous blood of Christ God can now show me mercy where I only deserved death. There is no "secondary" in the Godhead. The primary purpose for everything they do is their glory and every part of the Godhead is glorified by every action of the Godhead.

Does Jesus' blood regenerate you or is it God's choice that does?

You speak of the blood of Christ and the sovereign authority of God as if they ever oppose each other in purpose. It is pointless to ask these types of questions because every action of the Father is purposed to glorify the Godhead as is every action of the Son and the Holy Spirit.

I will tell you that it was by the power of God's grace that I am regenerate. That will have to do as an answer for you.

God bless

 

[Benedicta00]

Strange though...you're not so clear headed when someone is calling your beliefs hell spawn...

Maybe you don't feel that much differently than he does.

In all honesty, now your attacking me? What is going on, is something bothering you?

There is a Catholic saying, Mother Theresa... "We should try to recognize the face of Christ is all of His distressing disguises."

Those you do not treat kindly bare the image of Christ in their souls even though he is veiled under the wounds of sin. Try to remember this. “What so ever you do to the least of my brethren, you do unto me.”

 

[Benedicta00]

I will tell you that it was by the power of God's grace that I am regenerate. That will have to do as an answer for you.

Do you think God’s grace is in connection with Jesus sacrifice?

 

[Reformationist]

In all honesty, now your attacking me?

What??!! I'm not attacking you. I was just pointing out that there's a huuuuge difference between the way you respond to those attacking a belief you hold dear and those attacking a belief you also disagree with.

What is going on, is something bothering you?

Well, I'm not particularly keen on having someone call beliefs the spawn of the devil but, as I said, I thought it was more pitiful than offensive.

There is a Catholic saying, Mother Theresa... "We should try to recognize the face of Christ is all of His distressing disguises."

Those you do not treat kindly bare the image of Christ in their souls even though he is veiled under the wounds of sin. Try to remember this. ?What so ever you do to the least of my brethren, you do unto me.?

Here's a "Don" saying:

"God often exposes us to the sins of others so that we may see our own weaknesses and be better equipped to view ourselves with humility and approach others in a spirit of Christian love.

Those you do not treat kindly are often not in a position where they can receive your guidance, godly though it may be, strictly because you're the one offering it."

God bless

 

[Grammalamma]

Born again Christians do sin, everybody sins. Although we try to be more Christlike, we wont reach that goal until we are with Him in Heaven. Jesus died for all sins, past, present and future.

 

[Reformationist]

Do you think God?s grace is in connection with Jesus sacrifice?

I'm not sure where I was circumspect. EVERYTHING that the Godhead does is "connected" with every aspect of every action taken by every facet of the Godhead because it is ALL purposed to glorify the Godhead.

That any better?

 

[Benedicta00]

What??!! I'm not attacking you. I was just pointing out that there's a huuuuge difference between the way you respond to those attacking a belief you hold dear and those attacking a belief you also disagree with.

What is going on, is something bothering you?

Well, I'm not particularly keen on having someone call beliefs the spawn of the devil but, as I said, I thought it was more pitiful than offensive.



Here's a "Don" saying:

"God often exposes us to the sins of others so that we may see our own weaknesses and be better equipped to view ourselves with humility and approach others in a spirit of Christian love.

Those you do not treat kindly are often not in a position where they can receive your guidance, godly though it may be, strictly because you're the one offering it."

God bless

You were offended and that is well and good but it does not justify unkind words about some personally nor does it justify you accusing me of agreeing with the person whom offended you.

And I have no idea what your saying means.

 

[Reformationist]

You were offended and that is well and good

It's "well and good" that I was offended? Okay.

but it does not justify unkind words about some personally

I agree.

nor does it justify you accusing me of agreeing with the person whom offended you.

I never said you agreed with them. I said, "Maybe you don't feel that much differently than he does." I make enough ungodly statements that you should be more than able to harp on something I actually say. You needn't accuse me of saying something I didn't.

And I have no idea what your saying means.

Well, it means two things primarily. First, the reason God exposes you to the sins of others is so that you may learn to acknowledge that you are just as much a sinner and, therefore, be in a position to humbly approach them with Christian love and sincerity.

And secondly, it is often wise to think about the type of relationship you have with someone before you go offering advice. In the case of you and I, your advice is often more of a stumbling block to me. I imagine it's the same way for you when I presume to advise you on godly behavior.

 

[Benedicta00]

Don,

You really should just apologize for insulting that poster’s personal character and questioning what I agree with or what I don't agree with.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

1 John 3:9 Webster
9 Whoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin,
because he is born of God.

Fantastic verse! The important words to see in this verse are "for his seed remaineth in him".
What part of your human makeup is this "seed"?
Is it your spirit, soul, or body?
I think we can all agree it is your spirit:

2 Corinthians 5:17 Webster
17 Therefore, if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature:
old things have passed away; behold, all things have
become new.

When you were born again, your body and soul remained the same as they were. They were not done away with and made completely new. Your spirit was! It was replaced by the spirit of Christ:

Galatians 2:20 Webster
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless, I live;
yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh,
I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me,
and gave himself for me.

The new spirit that is in you, which is "His seed", cannot sin. It is holy and righteous just like Jesus:

Ephesians 4:24 Webster
24 And that ye put on the new man,
which after God is created in righteousness
and true holiness.

If we walk according to the ability of this new spirit, we will never sin. We will always do what God would do in every situation. We cannot sin when we do this.

Now the problem. We do not always walk according to ability of the spirit of Christ in us. We should, but we sometimes fail. Sometimes we walk according to the leadings of our flesh and unrenewed mind. This always causes us to sin:

Galatians 5:
16 This I say then, Walk in the spirit,
and ye will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the spirit,
and the spirit against the flesh:
and these are contrary the one to the other;
so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye are led by the spirit,
ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest,
which are these, Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations,
wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like:
of which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past,
that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

The challenge for every believer is to walk according to the perfect spirit of Christ that has been born into us. It is only then that we do not sin outwardly

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Hi DE, good scriptures to bring up in this discussion. Shows you have some knowledge of the Word! Let's look at some of them.

Romans 7:
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Many people believe that Paul is speaking reflectively here. He is referring back to when he was un-saved and truly a "wretched " or unregenerate man. What Paul describes here is not a born again child of God. Verse 14 says he is "sold under sin"... which is not descriptive of a Christian. Verse 17 says "but sin that dwelleth in me" which again is not descriptive of a born again person who does not have sin dwelling (or living) in him. Verse 18 again: "but how to perform that which is good I find not" is not descriptive of a born again beliver who has the nature, holiness and righteousness of God in them. Verse 19 is the more of the same "but the evil which I would not, that I do" which would contradict many NT passages if it were talking aobut a believer. I could go on... but the entire passage continues this way. Paul is describing his experience leading up to his salvation, not his present life experience as a believer.

1 John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The key to understanding this passage are the words "if" which appear in verses 6,7, and 8.

1 John 1:6 WNT
6 If, while we are living in darkness, we profess to have fellowship with Him, we speak falsely and are not adhering to the truth.

Read this carefully without the pre-notion that all Christians walk in darkness. He is not saying all Christians walk in darkness. He is saying IF you find yourself in darkness, you got there by sin. You are only speaking falsely if you deny that darkness is the result of sin. He is in no way saying that darkness and sin are the norm for Christians. The norm for Christians is to walk in the light as He is in the light.... completely free from sin, righteous in every way.

1 John 1:7 WNT
7 But if we live in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, cleanses us from all sin.

Verse 8 again only refers to Christians who have sinned and are in darkness:

1 John 1:8 Webster
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

This only refers to believers who have sinned and who find themselves in darkness. If you find yourself in darkness, and insist you have not sinned, then you deceive yourself. But you do not walk around in a state of sin all the time. That is not the normal Christian life. The normal Christian life is to remain in the light, sinless and righteous.

The question I put to anyone reading these verses is the question raised by verse 6:

Are you in darkness?

If the answer is no, then you have not sinned, sin is not in you, you are in the light, and these verses do not apply to you. These verses only apply to a believer who finds himself in darkness.

To interpret these verses to mean we all are in darkness and all sin all the time leads us to a terrible circle. We would be constantly confessing our sin, then being forgiven and cleanesed (but not really because we are still sinners) and then lying because the truth is not in us, then back to the confessing, round and round and round. This would not make any sense unless the norm is to live in the light without sin, and what we read here only applies to those of us who sin, fall into darkness, and need a way back into the light by confession.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Again the key word is if.
If the normal state of the believer was that of living in darkness and sin, then there would be not need for the word "if". He would just say "all you sinning believers make sure you get together with the advocate today..."
Thanks
Didy

 

[Watcher]

Amen. Excellent explanation.

 

[Reformationist]

Don,

You really should just apologize for insulting that poster?s personal character and questioning what I agree with or what I don't agree with.

1 John5:3, I apologize for returning your evil with evil and becoming a stumbling block to others. I pray that the Lord helps you to see the Truth of His Gospel and that you learn to temper your views of other's beliefs with love and charity.

How's that?

 

[Benedicta00]

1 John5:3, I apologize for returning your evil with evil and becoming a stumbling block to others. I pray that the Lord helps you to see the Truth of His Gospel and that you learn to temper your views of other's beliefs with love and charity.

How's that?

Who are you directing this to? I pray that the Lord helps you to see the Truth of His Gospel and that you learn to temper your views of other's beliefs with love and charity.

 

[Netpreacher]

[notroll]

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Selah............

Rule No. 1 - No "Flaming"

1) You will not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. This will include misquoting another member out of context. You may discuss another member's beliefs but there will be no personal attacks on the member himself or herself. This includes implied accusations that another member is not a Christian.


Everyone here is better than this!!!

Didy

 

[aanjt]

The Roman church is guilty of demanding obesiance to a wafer. This is idolatry. The Roman church is guilty of exalting Mary to a status she does not have nor ever want. This is idolatry. Faith in Christ alone makes us saints to God, not our works. And, the saints are currently in the ground, so they can't hear you anyway. Pray to Jesus Christ and give Him the glory He deserves rather than a dead man who cannot even hear your cries.

So, you do not ask anyone to pray for you? Saints are those who have passed and those who are still living. If you ask anyone to pray for you, then, by what you are saying, you are praying to them. Maybe you missed the part in scripture where it specifically states that the saints intercedes for us.

Catholics did not determine the canon of Scripture; the canon of scripture was decided long before the first ecumenical council, but not by some grand decree from an organization, but by the faith of the saints of God who clearly saw the books as being inspired by God. Just because the Roman church claims the Early Church Fathers were 'Catholics" doesn't mean they would be 'Catholic' today.

Whatever.

I am here to preach the truth of God, and this nation has violently departed from faith in Christ's power of holiness. Instead, you decide to defend your organization rather than let God be true and evey man a liar. ......

I haven't said one word about my "organization". Btw, in my church, Mary is a saint and the Mother of God. Let's put it this way:

Jesus is God in the flesh
Mary is the mother of Jesus
Mary is the mother of God

or:

Is there ever a time you can seperate the divinity and the humanity of Christ? Is there ever a time when the divine was not in Christ or the humanity was not in Christ? Roman Catholics do not worship Mary and neither does my church.


Yours in Christ,
Jen

 

[aanjt]

Oh, btw, Danny, "Catholic" means "Universal". See, when churches say the Nicene Creed and the Apostles Creed and say "We believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic church", we are saying that "We believe in one holy, universal and apostolic church."

Btw, have you figured out which "organization" I belong to yet?

Yours in Christ,
Jen