do believers go forward at the end of services?

[SonOfThunder]

The church I go to always ends up with heads bowed and a message to invite them to walk forward or raise their hands to say that they believe in why Jesus died for them. I think prayer is then said and the church gets excited.

Can I ask if any believer that has been in another church but is new to the Baptist church and it's beliefs can do the same? or is it just for newbies and those that don't know the message of Jesus Christ for them?

I guess what I am asking is if it is for anyone?

James

 

[aReformedPatriot]

Yes anyone; Anyone who wants to accept Christ as their savior. Typically its not for someone who is saved because its an invatation to the lost.

During our invitation sometimes I just meander up to the altar anyways and pray before God to transform my heart, especially if I am struggling with something.

 

[BT]

Yeah it depends on the altar call. Sometimes it's for salvation decisions, in which case the deacons or pastor will meet folks as they come and show them from the Bible how they can be saved. Other times it's for repentance, or service... depends on the message and the preacher.

I went up once for my salvation decision. A bunch of times for repentance. And once to answer the call of the Lord in my life to enter the pastorate.

Walking to the front has no real special meaning, besides it's primary purpose. The primary purpose being a public act or acknowledgement.

One of the things that kind of makes me wonder about it is in terms of the "call of the Lord".. Often the preacher will say stuff like, "If you feel the Lord calling you to service, missions, etc. and you want to acknowledge and surrender to Him. Come up here and pray.." So that happens every once in awhile and I think it's a great thing. I went up to the front myself for that once. However the thing that kind of bugs me is people who answer that call and go to the front 100 times (or everytime it's made). To my mind I did it once, never turned back from obedience, God (and everyone else) knows that, so I don't go anymore.

I dunno it's kind of a touchy subject...

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day, All

This is a touchy subject on many level IMHO. But my church has an alter call of which I am not opposed to per-say. The problem become in that when some one goes to the alter for "salvation" and says some prayer ... most then are to beleive that person is saved because they said "the prayer" as it is the means "way" of one's salvation.

Very troublesome to me at least.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[BT]

I can see how it would be. Since the elect have no need of prayer after all... if they are the elect they need do nothing but exist. I'm surprised that there are altar calls at all in the calivinist circles. After all what use is there in that?




^ that is of course a lame attempt at sarcasm

 

[BBAS 64]

I can see how it would be. Since the elect have no need of prayer after all... if they are the elect they need do nothing but exist. I'm surprised that there are altar calls at all in the calivinist circles. After all what use is there in that?




^ that is of course a lame attempt at sarcasm

I reserve the right to respond in kind at a later time. If that is OK with you brother Bt. Hope you and yours are well, btw the Church I attend is not Calvinistic in the statement of Faith... but some "Spurgeon Baptist" attend there.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[SonOfThunder]

Good Day, All

This is a touchy subject on many level IMHO. But my church has an alter call of which I am not opposed to per-say. The problem become in that when some one goes to the alter for "salvation" and says some prayer ... most then are to beleive that person is saved because they said "the prayer" as it is the means "way" of one's salvation.

Very troublesome to me at least.

Peace to u,

Bill

I wondered this as well. I am new to Baptist church and I posted before this.....

Quote of mine:-

It's now been a couple of months since I started going to the Baptist Church locally.

I realised they won't let me take communion at first, I understood I have to be a member.

Now the pastor said I have to be saved and then baptised in order to be a member when I asked about being able to take the communion as they had it last Sunday again and I wanted to take it so badly.

As yet I don't know all the beliefs and cant say without a doubt I believe in them all, it's too soon. I have been a believer all my life and love God a whole lot.

Why so many rules? why can't my love of God and recognition that Jesus died for my sins be enough?

I have been baptised before when I was 13, is anyone able to help me on the rules as I dont want to get deep with the pastor and say too much.


more :-

I am not ready to face the Pastor and confront him with Scripture, always preferring to lie low and pray and listen as so much is different.

I should say at this stage that I grew up as one of Jehovah's Witnesses and my baptism was within that org. I left because of false teachings, and now find so mush is very different and rather than 'rock the boat' I am deciding to listne and go home and study the differences and praying.

Salvation, as I understand the concept from mainstream churches = belief in what God has done in sending his only begotton Son Jesus Christ for us all. I think also some say you have to know that Jesus is God and believe it. This is also called 'born again'.

I understand rules and being careful as I come from that myself. I think I am afraid of commitment so soon in case I raise my hand into other false teachings. May I ask if a person raises their hand and commits if they have to declare they believe all the doctrine? Also may I ask why my baptism isn't recognised by mainstream churches?

more:-

this is my point exactly, faith alone is not enough, provisions seem to stop every step. I believe in Jesus Christ and what He did and feel I am Christian through and through. Yet I don't understand a lot, ie The Trinity, I cannot proclaim the Nicene Creed, nor can I get my head around every doctrine. This is what stops me from being baptised or being accepted as a believer, so then rules prevent me from taking part in sharing the bread and the wine, rules say I have to do this and that, rules rules rules.

My head is swimming and all the while I know what Jesus said in John 1 about belief, that He would give you power if you believe. and what Philip said when the eunich said "what prevents me from being baptised"? what is confessing The Faith...to me it is as simple as knowing Jesus Christ, embrasing that he is The Son of God and understanding the freedom He brings through His death and resurrection for me personally.


The week after Christmas a total stranger came into church and raised their hand at the end of the service to declare they believed. I was curious as this is the first I have seen and everyone was excited after and I heard them saying to this person about being white as snow, and baptism to follow. I had a chance to ask this person personally their background and found it was the first time they had been into a church, they hadn't read the Bible before but knew about Jesus a little.

This person hasn't prayed previously, cannot know about trinity or the Nicene creed or any Bible principles as yet. My interest here is there are no rules for this person and yet so many for me. Does this person have to agree to what they don't know before baptism? will this person after Baptism be a member (yes) and can take the bread and the wine.

I am interested in the rules and have pointed this out not because of 'sour grapes' but out of interest in how it is all done. Any light on my confusion will be appreciated.

My past has confused me, and now I am supposedly free from that I have stepped into another set of rules it seems.


I wondered why someone totally alien to what The Bible says can be accepted on the basis of one prayer. Was it emotionlism? was it genuine? God sees the heart and He knows. But does going forward and saying one prayer save a person?

James

 

[SumTinWong]

Why so many rules?

Because mankind cannot be happy unless they feel like they are in control of something. They make rules that hamper peoples ability to get to God, all in the name of religion. JMHO.

why can't my love of God and recognition that Jesus died for my sins be enough?

It is not enough to know that Jesus died for your sins, you must also reflect it in your daily life. When your mind and actions have conformed to His will then you will know that you are his. Just knowledge that Jesus died for you, does not make one a Christian.

I have been baptised before when I was 13, is anyone able to help me on the rules as I dont want to get deep with the pastor and say too much.

If you are afraid to talk to your pastor that should throw up a red flag. If you can't talk to him, how can you expect him to pastor or lead you? Give him a chance to hear you out.

I am not ready to face the Pastor and confront him with Scripture, always preferring to lie low and pray and listen as so much is different.

Then do not confront him with scripture, discuss scripture with him. I do this with my pastor all the time. It may help to build your relationship as pastor / parishoner.

Salvation, as I understand the concept from mainstream churches = belief in what God has done in sending his only begotton Son Jesus Christ for us all. I think also some say you have to know that Jesus is God and believe it. This is also called 'born again'.

Being born again is a constant thing not a one time event. I die daily to things that I have in the past held on to. In their place I gain new insight to what God wants from me, and how he expects me to act. This, when I put it in action in my life, is the act of being born again. It is a constant thing.

I understand rules and being careful as I come from that myself. I think I am afraid of commitment so soon in case I raise my hand into other false teachings. May I ask if a person raises their hand and commits if they have to declare they believe all the doctrine?

No.

Also may I ask why my baptism isn't recognised by mainstream churches?

Was it done in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit? If not then that is why. Plus the doctrines of the JW's are so far off the "orthodox" path in some areas that they may want you to be sure of what Baptism means.

Yet I don't understand a lot, ie The Trinity, I cannot proclaim the Nicene Creed, nor can I get my head around every doctrine.

The people who say they understand the Trinity are misleading to you. We can identify the members of the Trinity from scripture, but know how this came about or how it can be is a mystery. People who try to explain it fully I liken to pebble collectors in the ocean. They may find a gem here and there but there is still a world of ocean they do not know nor will ever see. As far as the creed goes, it is a man made document, and is not necessary for your salvation. It does outline basic Christian beliefs however, and should be studied.

This is what stops me from being baptised or being accepted as a believer, so then rules prevent me from taking part in sharing the bread and the wine, rules say I have to do this and that, rules rules rules.

Rules suck. I hate rules. I am at heart a rebellious lad. That being said, some of these rules are set up because people want to make sure you know what it is you are doing. They do not want you to be misled. If you do understand, then explain it to them, and see what they say.

My head is swimming and all the while I know what Jesus said in John 1 about belief, that He would give you power if you believe. and what Philip said when the eunich said "what prevents me from being baptised"? what is confessing The Faith...to me it is as simple as knowing Jesus Christ, embrasing that he is The Son of God and understanding the freedom He brings through His death and resurrection for me personally.

I do not see a problem with anything you said here.

But does going forward and saying one prayer save a person?

In my opinion, no it does not and I would refer to the parable of the seeds.

 

[SonOfThunder]

It is not enough to know that Jesus died for your sins, you must also reflect it in your daily life. When your mind and actions have conformed to His will then you will know that you are his. Just knowledge that Jesus died for you, does not make one a Christian.

The people who say they understand the Trinity are misleading to you. We can identify the members of the Trinity from scripture, but know how this came about or how it can be is a mystery. People who try to explain it fully I liken to pebble collectors in the ocean. They may find a gem here and there but there is still a world of ocean they do not know nor will ever see. As far as the creed goes, it is a man made document, and is not necessary for your salvation. It does outline basic Christian beliefs however, and should be studied

So it is possible for a person (in your opinion) to be a Christian and not understand or be able to declare openly one way or the other that Jesus is God? Oh boy, I have studied it a great deal and I'm not sure if my insecurity and fear stop me from declaring it or I'm just plain dumb . It's scary that my knowledge should decide my eternity. aand it shouldn't be a flip of a coin.

If you are afraid to talk to your pastor that should throw up a red flag. If you can't talk to him, how can you expect him to pastor or lead you? Give him a chance to hear you out.


Then do not confront him with scripture, discuss scripture with him. I do this with my pastor all the time. It may help to build your relationship as pastor / parishoner.

This has to be my next step, it just has to. He isn't a mind reader, nor can he help with me hiding my confusions or past. Now I am a regular and he knows I am not going to stand up on the bench and shout out my beliefs and try and convert everyone to what I was taught, perhaps I am safe to expect him to listen without posting a ban with my photo heading it on the door of the church. Guess thats a bit exagerated isn't it? , seriously, I thought the religion I was in was really hated and feared so I was afraid to say what I came from. Also at first I was depressed and couldn't face the homeowrk that will come from such a talk.

Being born again is a constant thing not a one time event. I die daily to things that I have in the past held on to. In their place I gain new insight to what God wants from me, and how he expects me to act. This, when I put it in action in my life, is the act of being born again. It is a constant thing.

Is being 'born again' used the same as 'being saved'? Do they mean the same?

I totally agree with your comments on what it is to be Christian. It is a 24 hour a day, 7 day a week commitment to God. In the process we die daily to our sins and change into what He wants from us as believers. I like what you wrote a great deal.

Was it done in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit? If not then that is why. Plus the doctrines of the JW's are so far off the "orthodox" path in some areas that they may want you to be sure of what Baptism means.

You know to this day I don't know the words used during baptism. If I understand the concept of Baptism and how it mirrors the death Burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. If I understand it is a public demonstration of my belief and has no saving properties from sin, but is a picture of the rising of a new man free from sin and ready to follow God. Will that be accepted do you think?

The doctrines are very very different, perhpas they will want me to learn central differnces first. I don't know.



We are free to open our hearts here providing we don't hurt another or try to rule over them. It's good we can discuss and share about rules. Thansk for your input and 'being real' with me Bud.


James

 

[Matthan]

The invitation from many Baptist preachers is for anyone touched by the Holy Spirit. For some this may be an invitation for Baptism after their salvation experience. But many "go forward" to rededicate their lives for Jesus, or for some other personally important purpose. Regardless, it is truly a wonderful and inspiring sight to see. Amen!!!

Matthan <J><

 

[GreenEyedLady]

So it is possible for a person (in your opinion) to be a Christian and not understand or be able to declare openly one way or the other that Jesus is God? Oh boy, I have studied it a great deal and I'm not sure if my insecurity and fear stop me from declaring it or I'm just plain dumb . It's scary that my knowledge should decide my eternity. aand it shouldn't be a flip of a coin.

James,
Commit thy works unto the Lord and thy thought shall be established.
Don't worry about tryiing to understand everything all at once. I think its your fear. But there is good news, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. So, that means, you will understand soon enough. I have learned that if I obey first, showing God I have ultimate faith in HIM, and analize later, he will then establish my thoughts. If we wait everytime something happens to understand it first there would be ALOT of things we would never ever do.
Being born again is not about ANY church. Its about your relationship with God. Think back when Christ was preaching. No one was talking about doctrines exxcept the Jewish Pharesees. People believed on faith in What Christ was telling them. They did not need a degree on how everything worked. Once you become born again James, you will understand things ALOT better. WHY? Because the Holy Spirit will reveal all of this to you. You just need to let him in.

Is being 'born again' used the same as 'being saved'? Do they mean the same?

Yes they mean the same thing. Being born again saves you from Hell.

You know to this day I don't know the words used during baptism. If I understand the concept of Baptism and how it mirrors the death Burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. If I understand it is a public demonstration of my belief and has no saving properties from sin, but is a picture of the rising of a new man free from sin and ready to follow God. Will that be accepted do you think?

You mean to be rebaptized or when you were baptized at 13?

The doctrines are very very different, perhpas they will want me to learn central differnces first. I don't know.

Usually most baptist obey first and analize later. Its all about getting the Holy Spirit working inside you. Without the Holy Spirit its all too confusing.

GEL

 

[SumTinWong]

So it is possible for a person (in your opinion) to be a Christian and not understand or be able to declare openly one way or the other that Jesus is God?

I think yes and no. At first it may not be apparent to everyone as most pastors in these altar calls will focus on the sacrafice rather than on who Jesus really is, and why that sacrafice was so special. But I think as a person reads the Bible it will become apparent to most people that Jesus was more than just a righteous man, He was God incarnate.

I cannot honestly say who and who is not a Christian, but in my humble opinion it would be pretty hard for me to believe that someone could be a Christian without knowing who Christ is.

Oh boy, I have studied it a great deal and I'm not sure if my insecurity and fear stop me from declaring it or I'm just plain dumb . It's scary that my knowledge should decide my eternity. aand it shouldn't be a flip of a coin.

I think you are probably scared because your whole life you have been told one thing, and now that you are out of that familiar element these new things are scaring you. I can turn it around and say that I would be hard pressed to admit that Jesus was not God as I have been taught that my whole life. Next time you pray and everytime you doubt try saying this: "Lord I believe, but help me in my unbelief."

This has to be my next step, it just has to. He isn't a mind reader, nor can he help with me hiding my confusions or past. Now I am a regular and he knows I am not going to stand up on the bench and shout out my beliefs and try and convert everyone to what I was taught, perhaps I am safe to expect him to listen without posting a ban with my photo heading it on the door of the church. Guess thats a bit exagerated isn't it? , seriously, I thought the religion I was in was really hated and feared so I was afraid to say what I came from. Also at first I was depressed and couldn't face the homeowrk that will come from such a talk.

Well consider us your tutors if you want, and if you want to ask us (meaning me) questions first, then we (meaning I) do not mind helping you. No true Christian hates Jehovah's Witnesses, and no true Christian fears them either.

Your pastor may have some great information for you from other former JW's and perhaps he is waiting for you to ask him. Nest time you pray, pray that God will open the hearts of the people of the church that they will be receptive to you and will help you on your way. Prayer is very powerful.

Is being 'born again' used the same as 'being saved'? Do they mean the same?

In my opinion, no one can be saved without being born again, but I do not think the two are the same thing. Being born again puts you on the path to salvation, or salvation is the result of being born again.

I totally agree with your comments on what it is to be Christian. It is a 24 hour a day, 7 day a week commitment to God. In the process we die daily to our sins and change into what He wants from us as believers. I like what you wrote a great deal.

It was easier to write and to believe than to live. It is the hardest thing I have ever done, to die to myself.

You know to this day I don't know the words used during baptism. If I understand the concept of Baptism and how it mirrors the death Burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. If I understand it is a public demonstration of my belief and has no saving properties from sin, but is a picture of the rising of a new man free from sin and ready to follow God. Will that be accepted do you think?

It would be in my church.

The doctrines are very very different, perhpas they will want me to learn central differnces first. I don't know.

I think that would ve a good idea, and my advice would be do not rush into anything, do it when you are ready. If you have made Jesus the Lord of your life He can and will help you onto the right path.

We are free to open our hearts here providing we don't hurt another or try to rule over them. It's good we can discuss and share about rules. Thansk for your input and 'being real' with me Bud.

Anytime James, after all what are brothers for if not to help each other?

 

[goldentoejam]

I am truly glad that this topic is being discussed. I am a member of a Baptist Church and actually just surrendered to the ministry in the same church. While I am growing increasingly knowledgeable about the word, its meaning, and the customs of the church, I would have to say that I know just enough to know that I don't know it all. Yet, I am a firm believer in the use of the altar. It is greatly under-rated...in my opinion.

1. The altar allows one to humble himself/herself in a way that is not commonly practiced. You can get on your knees, on your face, and take things up with God.

2. Regardless the reason, whether salvation, church membership, or simply a dilemma that one is experiencing and needs to see God moving in it, the altar is one avenue to make your requests known unto God. You can make these requests anytime...even in the pew if you so desire, but there is something about that altar.

3. This is a caution in regards to the use of the altar. Be cautious as to your true intentions of going to the altar. Some go forward in front of the congregation simply as a show of their faith and to receive attention and praise for trying to "get things right" with God. Don't do as the Sadducees do as the book of Matthew says. If need be, make yourself a prayer closet, a place to humble yourself where your intentions aren't to receive recognition by others, but to speak with God.

4. When walking forward to the altar, it is also comforting that other members of the church realize that you are burdened in some way and will pray for you. Personally, just about every time that someone approaches the altar, I will stop what I am doing, even singing the song of invitation, to pray for that troubled individual that is appealing boldly before His throne.

Just a little bit of my perspective on the altar. God Bless you guys!

Until ALL have heard,
Jason

 

[SonOfThunder]

James,
Commit thy works unto the Lord and thy thought shall be established.
Don't worry about tryiing to understand everything all at once. I think its your fear. But there is good news, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. So, that means, you will understand soon enough. I have learned that if I obey first, showing God I have ultimate faith in HIM, and analize later, he will then establish my thoughts. If we wait everytime something happens to understand it first there would be ALOT of things we would never ever do.
Being born again is not about ANY church. Its about your relationship with God. Think back when Christ was preaching. No one was talking about doctrines exxcept the Jewish Pharesees. People believed on faith in What Christ was telling them. They did not need a degree on how everything worked. Once you become born again James, you will understand things ALOT better. WHY? Because the Holy Spirit will reveal all of this to you. You just need to let him in.

Dear Mrs Green Eyes.

Thankyou for always responding. I am Christian first of all. I love God and believe He sent His Son to die for me. in that belief I confessed to God that I needed Him and also need to be washed from my sin, The Bible promises that I have been and I continue to be shaped by God through The Bible. I have told God over and Over that I will follow Him first.

Yes they mean the same thing. Being born again saves you from Hell.

I didn't know this bit. It has different meanings withing the Jehovah's Witnesses, so I will study it out soon.

You mean to be rebaptized or when you were baptized at 13?

when I was 13. I am not sure if rebaptism is necessary as yet. Both religions combine membership with Baptism. I personally think Baptism and membership are not connected and should be dealt with seperately.

Usually most baptist obey first and analize later. Its all about getting the Holy Spirit working inside you. Without the Holy Spirit its all too confusing.

Agreed, without the Holy Spirit we cannot read The Bible and grow from it personally, without the Holy Spirit I would not have left a close knit family and friends and survived. The Holy Spirit is powerful and helps a believer follow.

I cannot honestly say who and who is not a Christian, but in my humble opinion it would be pretty hard for me to believe that someone could be a Christian without knowing who Christ is.

I think you are probably scared because your whole life you have been told one thing, and now that you are out of that familiar element these new things are scaring you. I can turn it around and say that I would be hard pressed to admit that Jesus was not God as I have been taught that my whole life. Next time you pray and everytime you doubt try saying this: "Lord I believe, but help me in my unbelief

Trinity is a difficult concept..here is a snippet of the 18 pages of study I did on it. I sort of just let my thoughts rave on and did formal study through Scripture also..this is a ravin' bit.

The concept of the trinity is far removed from our human experience, where every different human ‘person’ is a different being as well. The trinity speaks somehow of God’s being so much greater than ours, that within this one undivided being there can be an unfolding into interpersonal relationships, so that there can be three distinct persons.



This tri-personal form of being is beyond my ability to comprehend. Far different from anything we (man) have experienced, and far different from anything else in the universe.



Simplifying the doctrine in order to understand it leads to questions. By looking into what the Bible teaches, how the relationships fit together is the only way we can possibly come to any conclusions. The Bible does seemingly say believe in a contradiction i.e. ‘God is three persons’ and ‘there is one God’.



Having said that, it remains a mystery – a paradox and interests me. Will I fully understand? It seems unintelligible in its essential nature.



Many varied illustrations have been suggested to indicate something of the nature of the trinity from three-leaf clover to laws of chemistry. While human and natural analogies may legitimately be employed to enforce and illustrate divine truth, no single finite illustration can ever adequately express God. My own fear of treading dangerous ground and the drawing of inferences from further seeming parables and illustrations and written thoughts remain paramount.



It is noteworthy that our Lord should have taught us to call these three “persons” in the GODHEAD by such homely titles as Father, Son & Holy Spirit. Our finite minds need as clear a grasp as possible of the relationship which each of these divine ‘principals’ or ‘agents’ bears to the others and to our redemption.



There also seems ‘no word’ which can adequately take the place of ‘person’ in these various connections.



Is 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.



1Cor 2:11- For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God



Mans own Spirit knows man. As does The Spirit of God know God.



It is evident that the spirit proceeds from God Himself always.Whereas in contrast, Jesus prayed and looked to the Father.

Can I say that I don't think I am dumb, I also think it is possible to be Christian and not understand trinity. I imagine many many people take the belief by faith.

You are right about having to understand a concept when all your life you have been taught otherwise. We are talking about God here......God is True and God does not waiver, He IS TRUTH. What I think and what you think don't alter what God is. He is pure LOVE. I am sure He also understands the desires of your heart and mine and knows our very motives and intents. I might have undoings (teachings) to do, I can only do this with His help, and ask constantly for understanding and clarity.

Well consider us your tutors if you want, and if you want to ask us (meaning me) questions first, then we (meaning I) do not mind helping you.

I (meaning me) will consider you (uncle Bud) my (me again) tutor, I do ask 'us' (meaning all in Baptist forum) lots, and glean lots from many (including you Uncle Bud) I will remember you (Uncle Bud) have offered this help to me (SonOfThunder) and thank you...this trinity issue is driving me nuts.

Have a great weekend and thanks for the kind responces I get in this area I have chosen to post.

By the way Uncle Bud...can I ask how old you are? you can pm me if you're shy...its just curiosity.

James

 

[SumTinWong]

Trinity is a difficult concept..here is a snippet of the 18 pages of study I did on it. I sort of just let my thoughts rave on and did formal study through Scripture also..this is a ravin' bit.
The concept of the trinity is far removed from our human experience, where every different human ‘person’ is a different being as well. The trinity speaks somehow of God’s being so much greater than ours, that within this one undivided being there can be an unfolding into interpersonal relationships, so that there can be three distinct persons. This tri-personal form of being is beyond my ability to comprehend. Far different from anything we (man) have experienced, and far different from anything else in the universe.

Simplifying the doctrine in order to understand it leads to questions. By looking into what the Bible teaches, how the relationships fit together is the only way we can possibly come to any conclusions. The Bible does seemingly say believe in a contradiction i.e. ‘God is three persons’ and ‘there is one God’. Having said that, it remains a mystery – a paradox and interests me. Will I fully understand? It seems unintelligible in its essential nature.

Many varied illustrations have been suggested to indicate something of the nature of the trinity from three-leaf clover to laws of chemistry. While human and natural analogies may legitimately be employed to enforce and illustrate divine truth, no single finite illustration can ever adequately express God. My own fear of treading dangerous ground and the drawing of inferences from further seeming parables and illustrations and written thoughts remain paramount. It is noteworthy that our Lord should have taught us to call these three “persons” in the GODHEAD by such homely titles as Father, Son & Holy Spirit. Our finite minds need as clear a grasp as possible of the relationship which each of these divine ‘principals’ or ‘agents’ bears to the others and to our redemption.

There also seems ‘no word’ which can adequately take the place of ‘person’ in these various connections. Is 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 1Cor 2:11- For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God Mans own Spirit knows man. As does The Spirit of God know God.

It is evident that the spirit proceeds from God Himself always.Whereas in contrast, Jesus prayed and looked to the Father. Can I say that I don't think I am dumb, I also think it is possible to be Christian and not understand trinity. I imagine many many people take the belief by faith.

You are right about having to understand a concept when all your life you have been taught otherwise. We are talking about God here......God is True and God does not waiver, He IS TRUTH. What I think and what you think don't alter what God is. He is pure LOVE. I am sure He also understands the desires of your heart and mine and knows our very motives and intents. I might have undoings (teachings) to do, I can only do this with His help, and ask constantly for understanding and clarity.

I do not think any seasoned theologian could have said it any better. I underlined my favorite part.

I (meaning me) will consider you (uncle Bud) my (me again) tutor, I do ask 'us' (meaning all in Baptist forum) lots, and glean lots from many (including you Uncle Bud) I will remember you (Uncle Bud) have offered this help to me (SonOfThunder) and thank you...this trinity issue is driving me nuts.

Have a great weekend and thanks for the kind responces I get in this area I have chosen to post.

By the way Uncle Bud...can I ask how old you are? you can pm me if you're shy...its just curiosity.

I am 37, going on 90. SOT It is a pleasure to talk to someone who is so into learning about God. Never lose that zeal!

 

[SonOfThunder]

Today, I went forward at church, it was different than usual, the pastor said if anyone wants to be prayed for and is feeling burdened come forward.

Unfortunately I 'lost it' and cried to God for understanding, (don't you just hate crying?) the pastor prayed with me and stayed with me when others left the church and I was still praying. He and I will meet on Wednesday, please pray for this and for God to give me words.


James

 

[BT]

Today, I went forward at church, it was different than usual, the pastor said if anyone wants to be prayed for and is feeling burdened come forward.

Unfortunately I 'lost it' and cried to God for understanding, (don't you just hate crying?)
James

No, not at all.

John 11:35 is the shortest verse in the entire Bible (there some trivia for you folks). And to me it is arguably one of if not the most powerful thing I've ever read. It simply reads:

"Jesus wept."

 

[Alexander Nissi]

I realised they won't let me take communion at first, I understood I have to be a member.

Now the pastor said I have to be saved and then baptised in order to be a member when I asked about being able to take the communion as they had it last Sunday again and I wanted to take it so badly.

I have been a believer all my life and love God a whole lot.

Why so many rules? why can't my love of God and recognition that Jesus died for my sins be enough?

I have been baptised before when I was 13, is anyone able to help me on the rules as I dont want to get deep with the pastor and say too much.


more :-

I am not ready to face the Pastor and confront him with Scripture, always preferring to lie low and pray and listen as so much is different.

I should say at this stage that I grew up as one of Jehovah's Witnesses and my baptism was within that org. I left because of false teachings, and now find so mush is very different and rather than 'rock the boat' I am deciding to listne and go home and study the differences and praying.

Salvation, as I understand the concept from mainstream churches = belief in what God has done in sending his only begotton Son Jesus Christ for us all. I think also some say you have to know that Jesus is God and believe it. This is also called 'born again'.

May I ask if a person raises their hand and commits if they have to declare they believe all the doctrine? Also may I ask why my baptism isn't recognised by mainstream churches?

more:-

this is my point exactly, faith alone is not enough, provisions seem to stop every step. I believe in Jesus Christ and what He did and feel I am Christian through and through. Yet I don't understand a lot, ie The Trinity, I cannot proclaim the Nicene Creed, nor can I get my head around every doctrine. This is what stops me from being baptised or being accepted as a believer, so then rules prevent me from taking part in sharing the bread and the wine, rules say I have to do this and that, rules rules rules.


I am interested in the rules and have pointed this out not because of 'sour grapes' but out of interest in how it is all done. Any light on my confusion will be appreciated.

My past has confused me, and now I am supposedly free from that I have stepped into another set of rules it seems.


I wondered why someone totally alien to what The Bible says can be accepted on the basis of one prayer. Was it emotionlism? was it genuine? God sees the heart and He knows. But does going forward and saying one prayer save a person?

James

It depends on what type of baptist church you are going to if you have to be a member or not in order to take communion. The church I go to is in the North American Baptist confrence and all you have to do to take communion in our church's confrence is to declare your faith in the lord Jesus as Saviour.

I can only speak for the confrence my church is in but the reason that we don't allow baptisms from former JW's is that the baptism isn't always the believer's baptism by immersion. In our church you have to go through a baptism class. In the class you learn about what baptism is scripturally directly from the bible. you learn how to write your testimony and then you can be baptised.

I hope this helps~Alec

 

[SumTinWong]

Today, I went forward at church, it was different than usual, the pastor said if anyone wants to be prayed for and is feeling burdened come forward.

Unfortunately I 'lost it' and cried to God for understanding, (don't you just hate crying?) the pastor prayed with me and stayed with me when others left the church and I was still praying. He and I will meet on Wednesday, please pray for this and for God to give me words.


James

I think that is great James!!! And crying is awesome as well and I ditto what BT said. Tell us what time is the meeting, and we will pray for you whikle you are there. (we meaning me)

 

[GreenEyedLady]

Today, I went forward at church, it was different than usual, the pastor said if anyone wants to be prayed for and is feeling burdened come forward.

Unfortunately I 'lost it' and cried to God for understanding, (don't you just hate crying?) the pastor prayed with me and stayed with me when others left the church and I was still praying. He and I will meet on Wednesday, please pray for this and for God to give me words.


James

Somebody shout! Somebody scream! AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SOF, you are on your way. You know what this reminds me of?
Do you know how to catch a monkey? Well you drill a hole in a coconut and place a small rock inside of it. You leave it by the tree and wait for the monkey. Soon enough that monkey will come and examine the coconut. (lets assume we are in an area near monkeys otherwise you all will be waiting ALONG time ) So the monkey puts his hand inside and gets ahold of the rock. You can walk right up to that monkey because he is bound and determined to get that rock that is already in his hand. The problem is that he cannot pull his hand out unless he lets go of that rock. SO the monkey will sit for hours with his hand inside the coconut pulling and jamming his hand in there until he tires and then tries again later.
Sometimes our old ways OR doctrines that were imbedded in us is the rock that the monkey is holding on to. All we have to do is let go of that rock and pull our hand out of that coconut to be free.
Your letting go of that rock!