Do Baptists believe in Saints?

[PrincetonGuy]

All trusted translations don't translate it these ways. Also, I know enough Greek from 2 years of study to know that there is good reason that they don't translate it these ways.


I will take the wisdom of all of these translators and my knowledge of Greek over your translation.

All three of the translations that I posted are well supported by Greek grammar and lexicography. Our English translations translate 2 Tim. 3:16 in the manner that they do based upon tradition and the preference of English readers rather than upon linguistics. The very same thing is true of translations into other modern languages. A review of the most scholarly commentaries on the Greek text of 2 Timothy will manifest that I am correct. If you have any evidence to the contrary, start a new thread on the subject, and we can discuss your evidence.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

All three of the translations that I posted are well supported by Greek grammar and lexicography. Our English translations translate 2 Tim. 3:16 in the manner that they do based upon tradition and the preference of English readers rather than upon linguistics. The very same thing is true of translations into other modern languages. A review of the most scholarly commentaries on the Greek text of 2 Timothy will manifest that I am correct. If you have any evidence to the contrary, start a new thread on the subject, and we can discuss your evidence.

I'm not going to debate the topic with you. I just wanted to point out to others that your translations are unfounded when compared to 100's of years of English translations. You can just wave you hand and call it tradition (ironically I'm listening to the Fiddler on the Roof soundtrack as I type this). You are the same person that appears to deny Sola Fide (Faith Alone), Sola Scriptura (Scripture Alone) and believes that Christians can live sinless lives. Your views would be more suited in Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox circles than Baptist circles.

 

[powermadd400ex]

i think imma trust where jesus says "the scriptures cannot be broken" and "these are the scriptures that testify about Me" are referring to the OT canon that Jews of his day, and still today, see as valid.

The Bible does not tell whether or not St. Augustine, St. John Chrysostom, or St. Francis of Assisi sometimes wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Neither does the Bible tell us whether or not the books that we consider to be canonical really are. The Greek text of 2 Tim. 3:16 can be translated as,

16. All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, (NRSV)

16. Every scripture inspired by God is also useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, (NRSV, alternate translation found in a footnote)

16. Every writing inspired by God is also useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, (the Greek word rendered as Scripture is the common Greek noun for any written document)

If the rendering found in the text of the NRSV is the correct rendering, one must ask whether Paul was writing exclusively of the Old Testament canon, or the Old Testament canon plus some additional writing that he did not specify. If the rendering found in the NRSV footnote is the correct rendering, Paul may have been writing of an unspecified body of literature with which he and Timothy were familiar, but we are not. The Bible simply does not tell us what body of literature Paul is referring to.

If the third rendering is the correct rendering, Paul may have been writing of all inspired literature. The Bible simply does not tell us what literature Paul had in mind when he wrote 2 Tim. 3:16. In Jude vv. 14-15, Jude quotes from 1 Enoch, apparently believing it to be an inspired work. I personally believe that the Protestant canon is the final authority for doctrine and practice, but that is little more than my own personal belief. Are the deuterocanonical Books any less inspired than the books in the Protestant canon? The Bible does not answer that question, and the answer must be sought in a very careful study of these books. The very same things are true of the writing of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers and the writings of others. It is also true, however, that many extracanonical writings have shaped to at least some extent what Baptists and other Christians believe today. All Christians, including Baptists, have their traditions that they tenacious cling to, but Baptists tend to be less willing to say so.