Do atheists have any evidence to support their beliefs?

[benglobal]

Interesting. How does one measure "positive intention" objectively to make a research worth reading?

I suggest you read the book to get that answer. How do you know any research is worthy of a read unless you read it. Or you can take my word for it if you wish.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I suggest you read the book to get that answer. How do you know any research is worthy of a read unless you read it. Or you can take my word for it if you wish.

So, you know the answer but refuse to educate your fellow man? What a brilliant paradigm of free information you are

 

[rjc34]

I suggest you read the book to get that answer. How do you know any research is worthy of a read unless you read it. Or you can take my word for it if you wish.

I looked up the author... It's quite clear from a quick Google Scholar search she's pretty much a quack. You know, homeopathy, 'dangers' of modern medicine, 'secret' cancer cures, 'dangers' of vaccinations, etc etc etc...

 

[benglobal]

So, you know the answer but refuse to educate your fellow man? What a brilliant paradigm of free information you are

I didn't say I new the answer, nor did I refuse to give it. I said the the book was worth a read and suggested that was what's required.

 

[benglobal]

I looked up the author... It's quite clear from a quick Google Scholar search she's pretty much a quack. You know, homeopathy, 'dangers' of modern medicine, 'secret' cancer cures, 'dangers' of vaccinations, etc etc etc...

She's the author or the book. She has amasssed data from scientists who have made this area of research their lifes work. I don't think they quickly google searched anything.

 

[Upisoft]

I looked up the author... It's quite clear from a quick Google Scholar search she's pretty much a quack. You know, homeopathy, 'dangers' of modern medicine, 'secret' cancer cures, 'dangers' of vaccinations, etc etc etc...

Thiomersal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I avoid vaccination. I don't want any mercury in my body.

 

[Jade Margery]

I certainly hope you don't eat fish then, as the amount of mercury in a salmon dinner far exceeds that found in vaccines... and they've even stopped using that much in vaccines, as you'd know if you read the wikipedia article that you linked.

The risk of having a few extra moles of mercury in your system are far surpassed by the risk of getting or carrying a dangerous disease.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Thiomersal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I avoid vaccination. I don't want any mercury in my body.

Why not? The doses present in vaccines is lower than that found in tuna - and my tuna & cucumber sandwiches are certainly not fatal.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I didn't say I new the answer, nor did I refuse to give it. I said the the book was worth a read and suggested that was what's required.

If you're read the book, can't you give us a summary of the requested information? If you haven't, how can you cite it?

As for McTaggart herself, she's hardly the most reputable person to be citing as a source...

 

[rjc34]

Thiomersal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I avoid vaccination. I don't want any mercury in my body.

You get more mercury in a can of tuna.

And from the wiki article you cited:
"the World Health Organization has concluded that there is no evidence of toxicity from thiomersal in vaccines and no reason on safety grounds to change to more-expensive single-dose administration."

 

[rjc34]

She's the author or the book. She has amasssed data from scientists who have made this area of research their lifes work. I don't think they quickly google searched anything.

I never implied she just 'did a good search', I said that her previously published works put her into 'quack' territory in her research, for the previously cited reasons.

 

[Upisoft]

I certainly hope you don't eat fish then, as the amount of mercury in a salmon dinner far exceeds that found in vaccines... and they've even stopped using that much in vaccines, as you'd know if you read the wikipedia article that you linked.

Yes, they have stopped using it, except in flu vaccines. Anyway the problem is that they have put known toxic compound with possible cumulative effects in the vaccines. The question is if they really care about my life. The answer is "no". They have used the first poison that will do the job. Why spend $$$ for research unless someone complains? Do I believe the vaccines today are safer? No, I have no reason to think that they are safer.
Salmon dinner? Yuck!

The risk of having a few extra moles of mercury in your system are far surpassed by the risk of getting or carrying a dangerous disease.

Oh, yes. People do not catch flu if they got their shot. Wait. They do. Plenty of examples out there.

 

[Upisoft]

Why not? The doses present in vaccines is lower than that found in tuna - and my tuna & cucumber sandwiches are certainly not fatal.

Maybe so, but I can't find any data on the substances that contain Hg in sea food. Also there is difference between eating your tuna and getting intravenous shot. Most of the tuna Hg will go out unabsorbed with your feces.

 

[rjc34]

Maybe so, but I can't find any data on the substances that contain Hg in sea food. Also there is difference between eating your tuna and getting intravenous shot. Most of the tuna Hg will go out unabsorbed with your feces.

No, the amount absorbed by your body from a typical tuna dinner has more Hg than the microscopic amount that's with a small amount of vaccines.

 

[Jade Margery]

Maybe so, but I can't find any data on the substances that contain Hg in sea food. Also there is difference between eating your tuna and getting intravenous shot. Most of the tuna Hg will go out unabsorbed with your feces.

I'm sorry to have to disagree, but mercury from fish takes months to leave your body... and it does so the same way mercury in your blood would. (Stool is brown partly because it contains a lot of dead blood cells.)

Answers.com - How long will the mercury from a flu shot stay in your body

Yes, they have stopped using it, except in flu vaccines. Anyway the problem is that they have put known toxic compound with possible cumulative effects in the vaccines. The question is if they really care about my life. The answer is "no". They have used the first poison that will do the job. Why spend $$$ for research unless someone complains? Do I believe the vaccines today are safer? No, I have no reason to think that they are safer.
Salmon dinner? Yuck!

I don't get flu vaccines either, but that is because I am pretty healthy and I have a fear of needles. If I were very old or very young (the demographics most likely to die of influenza) or if I spent a lot of time around kids and old people I would. But to avoid other vaccines that are only given in one or two shots because of 'cumulative effects' is a little silly.

The whole vaccine controversy began with an attempt to sue a drug company using a study that has since been proven to have used corrupted data and whose results further studies have failed to replicate. The only way a vaccine is going to hurt you is if you have an allergic reaction to it or if you are one of the very, very, very small percentage of people who actually gets the disease.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Maybe so, but I can't find any data on the substances that contain Hg in sea food. Also there is difference between eating your tuna and getting intravenous shot. Most of the tuna Hg will go out unabsorbed with your feces.

Nonetheless, mercury is absorbed as part of our daily lives, and tuna sandwiches (for instance) make you absorb more mercury than is injected intravenously in the form of thimersal. Besides, do you have any evidence that the amount of thiomersal injected as part of vaccinations actually leads to mercury poisoning?

 

[Upisoft]

No, the amount absorbed by your body from a typical tuna dinner has more Hg than the microscopic amount that's with a small amount of vaccines.

I can't see that data anywhere. I've searched the web only to find out that people usually compare the content of Hg in a fish serving to the content of a vaccine. I'll be happy to see the data about the absorbed amount from the serving, if you kindly provide it, instead of just telling me.

 

[Upisoft]

I'm sorry to have to disagree, but mercury from fish takes months to leave your body... and it does so the same way mercury in your blood would. (Stool is brown partly because it contains a lot of dead blood cells.)

Agreed, but this is not what I'm saying. Before we can talk about the Hg from the fish serving leaving our body we should talk about entering our body. Eating it will not necessarily mean that all of it will be absorbed in our body.



I don't get flu vaccines either, but that is because I am pretty healthy and I have a fear of needles. If I were very old or very young (the demographics most likely to die of influenza) or if I spent a lot of time around kids and old people I would. But to avoid other vaccines that are only given in one or two shots because of 'cumulative effects' is a little silly.

The whole vaccine controversy began with an attempt to sue a drug company using a study that has since been proven to have used corrupted data and whose results further studies have failed to replicate. The only way a vaccine is going to hurt you is if you have an allergic reaction to it or if you are one of the very, very, very small percentage of people who actually gets the disease.

You're forgetting that the flu shots also costs money and it usually do not protect you at all, so it is waste of resources.

 

[Upisoft]

Nonetheless, mercury is absorbed as part of our daily lives, and tuna sandwiches (for instance) make you absorb more mercury than is injected intravenously in the form of thimersal. Besides, do you have any evidence that the amount of thiomersal injected as part of vaccinations actually leads to mercury poisoning?

Where is the data of the amount absorbed?

Thimerosal is toxic. There is no study that shows thimerosal is safe for me. And since I'm talking about me, not about the large group of people used to be test mice, I don't see how any study is relevant to me.
For example I'm allergic to ciprofloxacin. My allergic reaction is not even listed in the most common reactions (which have frequency of 1%-2.5%). So less than 1% of the people have similar allergic reaction as I have, if any at all. I don't care that it is safe to 95% of the people and from the rest 5% most have mild allergic reactions.
In other words what you are asking from me is to get flu shot with thimerosal and then show you that I've got sick. Sorry, it is not going to happen, unless you show me first it is safe.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Where is the data of the amount absorbed?

Mercury in the Environment

Fish-based methylmercury is more readily absorbed, less easily excreted, and more toxic than other forms of mercury, both in fish (leading to the biomagnification of relatively low levels of elemental mercury and methylmercury) and in humans (who, being top-level predators, end up with more merthylmercury than the fish they eat).

Thimerosal is toxic. There is no study that shows thimerosal is safe for me. And since I'm talking about me, not about the large group of people used to be test mice, I don't see how any study is relevant to me.

So you never take any medication, or eat any new foodstuff, or drink any new liquids, right? Because none of it has been proven to be safe for you? I think you have quite a misunderstand of the nature of medicine and clinical trials.

In any case, numerous studies and reviews have found no harm in using thimerosal in vaccines. To hide in the smalls and say "But what if I'm different and special!" is a terrible way to approach science.

In other words what you are asking from me is to get flu shot with thimerosal and then show you that I've got sick. Sorry, it is not going to happen, unless you show me first it is safe.

I'd rather you didn't peddle misinformation to vulnerable children and adults. If you don't want to get vaccinated against debilitating and potentially fatal diseases, that's your business. You cited the mercury in vaccines as the reason you don't get vaccinated, yet the evidence demonstrates that the mercury absorbed is below that absorbed by eating fish - yet I don't imagine you protest outside your local fishmongers.