Do atheist doubt

[shernren]

I think with any belief there comes doubts... did you make the right decision, are you wrong? There are so many options out there and I think for many people atheism is an easy way out, its just a way to believe nothing.

So what is atheism now? Is it a path plagued with doubts and questioning? And if it is, how can it be "the easy way out"?

The least you could do when talking about a belief system you don't personally hold is to be self-consistent in what you talk.

 

[thaumaturgy]

I think for many people atheism is an easy way out

I take it you are not an atheist. I take it you have never felt the way most deconverted former religious people have felt. Otherwise you'd realize this is totally and utterly absurd.

You are a fool if you think those of us who have walked away from religion did it because it was the "easy way out".

I will be willing to be that most atheists have put in as much or possibly more time into examining their beliefs, faith and former religion than those who are still religious.

, its just a way to believe nothing. But for me there is an upside... if atheists are right and when we die we pass into nothingness then i'll do it with hope, but if it turns out that I'm right and God exists and I know I put my faith in him then I will enter into eternity with him. So as far as I see it I don't loose...

The simpleton version of the Pascal Wager. Sorry but I don't think it works quite like that. If I recall my christianity 101, it isn't simply believing in God but accepting that Jesus died for you (if you are a Christian) and accepting that you can receive grace. So it isn't enough just to "believe for the sake of hedging your bets."

I have no doubt you truly do believe in God and you truly love God with all your heart and soul. But for those of us who never really felt his presence and for whom this love was never "real", do you think God grades "on the curve" and he'd be just happy if we only forced ourselves to simply believe in him? Or do ya think he wants just a weeee bit more than simple self-enforced belief?

that's one of the ways that helps me keep strong in my faith. Knowing that with God I am assured I will not be wrong in the long run.

Is that enough? Really? Is it all God wants? Just that we believe he's there, he doesn't care how we believe, just simple belief? What's the point? If that's all God cares about then surely he could have done a better job for those of us who don't feel it, see it or experience it.

 

[Aron-Ra]

For those that claim to be atheist, do you ever doubt?
Are there ever moments that you think there might be a God afterall.

It sometimes seems like there might be some as-yet undiscovered intelligent aspect to certain elements of nature, or guiding evolution like a communal intellect or something like that. But if you think about that for more than a passing moment, so that you can take in some other factors too, then that notion eliminates itself pretty quickly.

I did actively believe in that sort of thing once. I even argued in favor of an intelligent designer before there was any intelligent design movement. But my version of that could never be classified as a god or anything like one. Gods are too childish and primitive a concept to actually take seriously. And I've never had any doubt at all that the Bible would still be dead wrong about damned near everything even if there was a god. Even if it is the Christian god, the Bible would still be wrong.

 

[Aron-Ra]

At the moment of death, will you relax in total comfort that you will pass into nothingness?

I've already faced that a couple of times -when I thought it was imminent and inevitable. So I know I'm OK with that.

Its certainly better than the alternative. I haven't feared death since I was a Christian. Your notion of heaven always seemed hellish to me. Its like that episode of the Twilight Zone where that little boy can 'wish' terrible things and they all come true instantly. Imagine being trapped in his house forever where you can't even commit suicide to get away. No escape even in death.

So back to you. Do you ever wonder how you would react if you woke up dead and found out God damned you to Hell for idolatry because you put Jesus ahead of him?

 

[consol]

For those that claim to be atheist, do you ever doubt?
Are there ever moments that you think there might be a God afterall. At the moment of death, will you relax in total comfort that you will pass into nothingness?

I don't think you mean doubt, I think you mean believe,
unless you have been subjected to a God, the question is not relevant, it only applies if you once believed and now you don't.

To an Atheist, there is as much chance of there being a God as there is of driving a car to the moon,
so do I ever think I will drive my car to the moon? do you want the short or the long answer?

 

[GettinInTune]

For those that claim to be atheist, do you ever doubt?
Are there ever moments that you think there might be a God afterall. At the moment of death, will you relax in total comfort that you will pass into nothingness?

I have no doubt in a Judeo-Chrisitan God. My death, if not sudden, is about letting go. As an atheist, I owe to myself to come to terms with my own mortality and be comfortable with the fact that I will die. It will eventually happen, but I might as well focus on the here in now. I would love the guarantee to dance through the fields of cotton candy and apply dumpling for the rest of eternity, but this wishful thinking at best.

Christians that are honest will admit doubt. I can say I have faith most of the time. However, logic can cause me to doubt, until I can reconcile it all, I will always have some doubt. It seems it will be impossible for me to reconcile it all.

Don't think too much or you may change your belief system. I arrived at my atheism via brutal honesty and rational thought.

Are athiest the same...can science totally erase all doubt? This is an answer I honestly seek for my own reasons and growth

Science is good at explaining how the world works. There is no evidence for God and no has provided me with sufficient proof of God. In all honesty, I am not asking for much.

I need logic, I seek to make science and the bible line up, but I also am forced to make a decisions based on faith. In the end, both sides will alway say to the other..evidence. No one can out prove the other, yet anyway.

Please don't conveniently plug science into the various gaps in the Bible. It is not about proving there is no God. It is about proving God exists. If you cannot prove God, then God only exists as a concept inside human minds.

So really, if you follow the process, declare atheism, do the doubts ever totally go away.

Yes

 

[Norseman]

I deconverted when I was perhaps 7 years old without needing to see any formal arguments; without even needing to know what the word atheism meant. Atheism comes as naturally to me as breathing air. Christianity was to me like the belief in Santa Clause for most people. I don't even think about it anymore unless someone says something to remind me. I just grew up. I have plenty of doubts, uncountable doubts. Practically every day leaves me overwhelmed with doubts, and I spend my spare time researching and learning to help build my certainty about topics that are important to me. The non-existence of God is not among the things I have doubts about. I've done that debate for years, I've seen every rehashed argument a dozen times, there's never anything new, never anything that would make me doubt.

 

[michabo]

Doubt is the wrong word, I think. I would say that in response to challenges, I question my conclusions but I've never seen a challenge which really stands up to the sniff test.

There definitely isn't a personal god.

 

[Skaloop]

I have no doubt that the Christian God of the Bible does not exist. Now, even though I have no doubt, that does not mean I do not accept that I could be wrong. If I wrote down a number between one and a trillion, and asked a friend to do the same, I would have no doubt that we wrote down different numbers. But I also concede that it is possible (though highly unlikely) that we wrote the same number.

I do, however, consider it minimally possible that some sort of small-g god exists. This would be analogous to my friend and I both writing down a four-digit number. We still didn't wrote down the same number, but matching up on the number of digits is more plausible, if still highly unlikely.

 

[rjw]

Welcome to the board.

I think with any belief there comes doubts... did you make the right decision, are you wrong?

I agree.

There are so many options out there and I think for many people atheism is an easy way out, ...

I suspect that for many theists their beliefs are an easy way out too.

... its just a way to believe nothing.

I know of no atheist who believes nothing.

But for me there is an upside... if atheists are right and when we die we pass into nothingness then i'll do it with hope, but if it turns out that I'm right and God exists and I know I put my faith in him then I will enter into eternity with him.

Right God, but you are still not good enough. Besides he likes atheists for their honesty - so he lets them in anyway?

So as far as I see it I don't loose...

Wrong God - therefore you lose (I am only an unbeliever but you are a heretic.)?

that's one of the ways that helps me keep strong in my faith. Knowing that with God I am assured I will not be wrong in the long run.

Pascal's Wager is not a good way to be assured of anything. Apply the Wager to your daily life and see how far you get.



Regards, Roland

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

For those that claim to be atheist, do you ever doubt?
Are there ever moments that you think there might be a God afterall. At the moment of death, will you relax in total comfort that you will pass into nothingness?

Christians that are honest will admit doubt. I can say I have faith most of the time. However, logic can cause me to doubt, until I can reconcile it all, I will always have some doubt. It seems it will be impossible for me to reconcile it all.

Are athiest the same...can science totally erase all doubt? This is an answer I honestly seek for my own reasons and growth

I need logic, I seek to make science and the bible line up, but I also am forced to make a decisions based on faith. In the end, both sides will alway say to the other..evidence. No one can out prove the other, yet anyway.

So really, if you follow the process, declare atheism, do the doubts ever totally go away.

I never doubt there is no mystical deity.

We are just a bag of chemicals, admittedly cleverly put together, but nether the less just that, when we die we go the same way as every other living thing, if you want to call in nothingness that fine.

I have plenty of doubt, but not about gods, these are purely man made. As for Christians they conceal their doubts with blind faith.

Science does not have the answers to all questions, but that is different to doubt. I do not doubt the earth is 4.5 billion years old, or plate tectonics occurs as scientifically outlined, the solar system formed from a solar nebular, or evolution has occurred, is occurring and will always occur.

Science has proven religion wrong many times

The age of the Earth
Religion; 6000 years. Falsified
Science; 4.5 billion years. PROVEN

Religion; earth the centre of the universe. Falsified
Science; earth is a lump of rock, orbiting a sun, out of billions of stars in our galaxy, out of billions of galaxies. PROVEN

Religion; life created as we see it. Falsified
Science; evolution the driving force behind life. PROVEN

Religion; global flood. Falsified
Science; no global flood. PROVEN

My doubts to humans even getting rid of the ignorance of religion never go away.

 

[MarcusHill]

Do I doubt my position that there isn't anything of a "spiritual" nature that can't be detected and tested by science? Sometimes, but I'm comforted by the fact that the existence of the spiritual would not, by definition, affect my life in any way, so assuming its nonexistence is a no-brainer application of Occam's razor. Do I ever for a single moment think it's possible that any of the world's religions actually have the Truth? Not for a single second. They are each as plausible as the FSM.

 

[Armistead]

Thanks for all the honest answers. I actually expected you would answer that way. I have found most Christians will stand behind great faith in absolute belief in God in public, while still dealing with doubt. Honestly, I prefer honest doubt over dishonest faith.

It is hard to be a Christian and admit that I sometimes doubt God. My faith is somewhat like yours, it's based on my personal consensus of what seems logical. Yet, it has doubt and confusion that seems non ending. In the end, for me, I think it takes more faith to be an atheist than a believer. Still, I can understand the process of faith for an athiest.

There is an atheist that lives in my neighborhood. Now, he practices atheism as a religion in my view. They have meetings, basically a church where they get together and preach against religion in general. They have good morals, ect. I do go to the neighborhood meetings at his house. I often get lost in all the jargon, but I try. Just due to a lack of education..14 years is not enough to grasp what they get into.

I test all my beliefs and why I feel there biblical, I often argue with mainline christianity. I was glad I found this board. I have been kicked off most Christian boards. Red some of my posting if you want to figure that out.

I may spend time here asking questions, I love knowledge, If just I had a brain that could grasp it.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Thanks for all the honest answers. I actually expected you would answer that way. I have found most Christians will stand behind great faith in absolute belief in God in public, while still dealing with doubt. Honestly, I prefer honest doubt over dishonest faith.

It is hard to be a Christian and admit that I sometimes doubt God. My faith is somewhat like yours, it's based on my personal consensus of what seems logical. Yet, it has doubt and confusion that seems non ending. In the end, for me, I think it takes more faith to be an atheist than a believer. Still, I can understand the process of faith for an athiest.

There is an atheist that lives in my neighborhood. Now, he practices atheism as a religion in my view. They have meetings, basically a church where they get together and preach against religion in general. They have good morals, ect. I do go to the neighborhood meetings at his house. I often get lost in all the jargon, but I try. Just due to a lack of education..14 years is not enough to grasp what they get into.

I test all my beliefs and why I feel there biblical, I often argue with mainline christianity. I was glad I found this board. I have been kicked off most Christian boards. Red some of my posting if you want to figure that out.

I may spend time here asking questions, I love knowledge, If just I had a brain that could grasp it.

Very few of us are born with the intellectual capacity of men like Hook, Newton, Darwin, Einstein, Boar, Sagan etc. But we are all capable of greater insight into the workings of the universe.

That’s the trouble with YEC in particular and to a lesser extent organised religion; they stifle people’s curiosity and then take advantage of their enforced ignorance. The saddest thing of all is that the people at the top of the creationist pile know this, and openly lie and deceive their flock, whilst raping these indoctrinated sheep of their hard earned money.

Never stop asking questions, and never except godoneit as an answer.

 

[Aron-Ra]

Honestly, I prefer honest doubt over dishonest faith.

In the end, for me, I think it takes more faith to be an atheist than a believer.

These two statements contradict one another.

Still, I can understand the process of faith for an athiest.

No you don't. The word, "atheist" simply means a perspective which does not include a god. Some forms of religious spiritualism fit that description, and those atheists who still believe in supernatural things (other than gods) do still have faith. But when you talk about atheists, its obvious that you're only referring to the another subset of that group. You're talking about rationalists. Rationalists are identified not by their lack of belief in God, but by thier rejection of faith. I am a rationalist. I have no faith. I consider faith to be wholly deceptive. So I reject it outright, and instead limit what I believe only to that which can be positively indicated by objectively verifiable physical or logical evidence.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

It is hard to be a Christian and admit that I sometimes doubt God. My faith is somewhat like yours, it's based on my personal consensus of what seems logical. Yet, it has doubt and confusion that seems non ending. In the end, for me, I think it takes more faith to be an atheist than a believer. Still, I can understand the process of faith for an athiest.

Atheism is defined as a lack of faith. It takes exactly zero faith-units to be an atheist, and it takes greater-than-zero faith-units to be Christian (or Muslim, or Hindu, etc).

There is an atheist that lives in my neighborhood. Now, he practices atheism as a religion in my view. They have meetings, basically a church where they get together and preach against religion in general. They have good morals, ect. I do go to the neighborhood meetings at his house. I often get lost in all the jargon, but I try. Just due to a lack of education..14 years is not enough to grasp what they get into.

A church is a house of worship (it etymologically stems from the Greek for 'the Lord's House'). A meeting-place for these strong-atheists is no more a church than the meeting-place for the AA is.

I test all my beliefs and why I feel there biblical, I often argue with mainline christianity. I was glad I found this board. I have been kicked off most Christian boards. Red some of my posting if you want to figure that out.

I may spend time here asking questions, I love knowledge, If just I had a brain that could grasp it.

Ask away. Q&A is always fun. With that in mind:
Why do you consider atheism to require more faith than Christianity? To me, this is synonymous with saying nought is greater than one (as a mathematician, this frightens me to my core ).

 

[Aron-Ra]

Atheism is defined as a lack of faith.

Actually, atheism is defined as a lack of belief in gods. Rationalism is defined as a lack of faith.

A church is a house of worship (it etymologically stems from the Greek for 'the Lord's House'). A meeting-place for these strong-atheists is no more a church than the meeting-place for the AA is.

Actually the AA often does meet in churches. They insist on belief in a "higher power".

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Actually, atheism is defined as a lack of belief in gods. Rationalism is defined as a lack of faith.
Actually the AA often does meet in churches. They insist on belief in a "higher power".

I have a number of friends who frequent AA meetings, what I find amazing is how many of these reformed alcoholics fill the gap left by drink, with religion.

I suppose it’s one addiction for another.

 

[Lilandra]

Thanks for all the honest answers. I actually expected you would answer that way. I have found most Christians will stand behind great faith in absolute belief in God in public, while still dealing with doubt. Honestly, I prefer honest doubt over dishonest faith.

You doubt because you have been raised to have faith in something, that is imperceptible and undetectable.

Most of all, it is something supernatural. In the Bible, proof that someone has a divine message is often that they defy natural laws. Turning water into wine violates chemistry, levitation defies physics and gravity, etc.

IOW supernatural=not natural or not real. It doesn't jibe with what has been observed repeatedly in nature.

It is hard to be a Christian and admit that I sometimes doubt God.

Skepticism is healthy.

My faith is somewhat like yours, it's based on my personal consensus of what seems logical.

No, it is not. It is illogical to believe in something that is undetectable and imperceptible.

Yet, it has doubt and confusion that seems non ending. In the end, for me, I think it takes more faith to be an atheist than a believer.

No, it doesn't.

Still, I can understand the process of faith for an athiest.

No you don't.

There is an atheist that lives in my neighborhood. Now, he practices atheism as a religion in my view. They have meetings, basically a church where they get together and preach against religion in general. They have good morals, ect. I do go to the neighborhood meetings at his house. I often get lost in all the jargon, but I try. Just due to a lack of education..14 years is not enough to grasp what they get into.

Ask questions?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Actually, atheism is defined as a lack of belief in gods. Rationalism is defined as a lack of faith.

Personally, I define atheism as a lack of belief in any theological concept, gods or otherwise. What do I mean by a theological concept? Well, I've yet to devsie a concrete definition, but suffice to say that samsara is a theological concept.

Actually the AA often does meet in churches. They insist on belief in a "higher power".

Well, yes, but they're not churches because of the AA meetings