Do all Non-Christians go to hell?

[seasonofillusions]

Okay there are many types of non Christians, even Nonchristians who have never heard the word Christ, or the concept of salvation. I'm the kind of nonchristian, in which Christanity was against my values. I started out as a Christian in West Michigan, because everyone was a Christian for the most part. I didn't want to be an odd duck. When I was about 17 I started to realize the more I read the bible, the more it wasn't going along what I knew to be true. I have experienced so much in my life, and I know truth when I see it. I consider myself Panenthestic, sometimes agnostic because my assertions can never be proven on an empirical level. I see what I call the "essence of good" or what you call Christ in a child's smile, in a waterfall, in a butterfly, in a blue sky, on a beautiful painting. I do not see the essence of good in the bible, I see a mixed bunch of ramblings so much of which seem to be good but fall short, and some of which seem to be evil, and some obscure. I run into Christians every day, but my biggest wonder is what they think of me, it would be hard to choke down to know that the majority of the populace thinks I will suffer eternal. So I ask Am I going to hell in your mind?

 

[seasonofillusions]

Wow 50 people looked, and zero answered, let that be a statement about the uniformity of christ. I have one other question, your loved ones who don't identify with christ, what of them? Also how is it that even one person could be tortured for an infinity of time for a finite number of sins? How is that just? How is just that you tell children this every day, and they have years of despair and confusion how people can act like this?

 

[seashale76]

People will find themselves experiencing 'hell' for rejecting Christ. Sin is missing the mark, which is anything that is not in accordance with God's will, as we are called to live a life in Christ. They will not be prepared to deal with the light of Christ, kind of like the people who threw the three youths into the fiery furnace. The youths were prepared to handle the fire, but those who threw them in perished even being near it.

Also, this used to be on wikipedia at one time, but I can't seem to find it anymore:

"For many ancient Christians, Hell was the same "place" as Heaven: living in the presence of God and directly experiencing God's love. Whether this was experienced as pleasure or torment depended on one's disposition towards God. St. Isaac of Syria wrote in Mystic Treatises: "... those who find themselves in Hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in Hell are deprived of the love of God ... But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed!" This ancient view is still the doctrine of the Eastern Orthodox Church."

 

[bling]

Wow 50 people looked, and zero answered, let that be a statement about the uniformity of christ. I have one other question, your loved ones who don't identify with christ, what of them? Also how is it that even one person could be tortured for an infinity of time for a finite number of sins? How is that just? How is just that you tell children this every day, and they have years of despair and confusion how people can act like this?

Sorry you have not gotten much response from Christians.

First off: Humans cannot “judge” the hearts of people while here on earth. God judges the person’s heart, especially when it comes to salvation.

Secondly: Some people never mature and/or have the opportunity to accept or reject God’s Love (help), so knowing what God is like would say these people go to heaven without ever fulfilling their earthly objective, so will have only a wonderful child’s Love for a wonderful Parent since they never obtained Godly type Love while here on earth and cannot obtain it in heaven.

God is at the elbow (literally, but not physically) of every individual want every mature adult to just turn toward Him willing to accept God’s help (which comes as pure charity). People just do not like to accept pure charity; since that is something the lowliest people on earth can and often do (some lowly people really do not humble themselves but steal the hand out so charity is not exchanged). All mature adults need help at sometimes in their life and turn to lots of wrong sources, but if they are truly willing to humbly accept the Creator’s charity they will be blessed.

As far as being “tortured” for an “infinite amount of time” that is not presented in scripture, but is a miss understanding by some people that call themselves Christians.

 

[seasonofillusions]

People will find themselves experiencing 'hell' for rejecting Christ. Sin is missing the mark, which is anything that is not in accordance with God's will, as we are called to live a life in Christ. They will not be prepared to deal with the light of Christ, kind of like the people who threw the three youths into the fiery furnace. The youths were prepared to handle the fire, but those who threw them in perished even being near it.

Also, this used to be on wikipedia at one time, but I can't seem to find it anymore:

This sounds rational I heard a summerian myth like that once. It was talking about a river, in afterlife the good and those who trusted in something higher than themselves it was warm, light and sweet. For the evil it was dark and cold, yet boiling. If that is the cutting mark, then yeah I guess I know which river I will be in. If there is a god, a universal spirit, I pray that I do it's will, and I pray that it pushes me towards it.

 

[seasonofillusions]

Sorry you have not gotten much response from Christians.

First off: Humans cannot “judge” the hearts of people while here on earth. God judges the person’s heart, especially when it comes to salvation.

Secondly: Some people never mature and/or have the opportunity to accept or reject God’s Love (help), so knowing what God is like would say these people go to heaven without ever fulfilling their earthly objective, so will have only a wonderful child’s Love for a wonderful Parent since they never obtained Godly type Love while here on earth and cannot obtain it in heaven.

God is at the elbow (literally, but not physically) of every individual want every mature adult to just turn toward Him willing to accept God’s help (which comes as pure charity). People just do not like to accept pure charity; since that is something the lowliest people on earth can and often do (some lowly people really do not humble themselves but steal the hand out so charity is not exchanged). All mature adults need help at sometimes in their life and turn to lots of wrong sources, but if they are truly willing to humbly accept the Creator’s charity they will be blessed.

As far as being “tortured” for an “infinite amount of time” that is not presented in scripture, but is a miss understanding by some people that call themselves Christians.

That's good to know I don't want to fight against natural law, I delight in good things. I get angry when thives, and liars are ruining happy days. If god judges me like that, then that's a god I love. I just think saying oh I'm a Christian now I'm saved and I can act pious, well that's just hollow.

 

[seasonofillusions]

I agree those who put will above natural law do not deserve salvation. It causes a disharmony within the human populace. I just don't think putting your faith in a 2000 year old messianc rabbi, and then doing nothing else would suffice to a kind and loving god.

 

[ChristianT]

I agree those who put will above natural law do not deserve salvation. It causes a disharmony within the human populace. I just don't think putting your faith in a 2000 year old messianc rabbi, and then doing nothing else would suffice to a kind and loving god.

In fact, the greatest (and most humble) of the apostles argued that a faith alone in God isn't sufficient for salvation. Sure, salvation is achieved through faith, but faith and only faith will not keep us in and doing God's will. Also, mine is the same as the ancient Church, as described in seashale's quote.

 

[seasonofillusions]

So I'm seeing a consensus among here that, some people who call themselves Christians might have an unpleasent afterlife, and some people who call themselves agnostic might have a pleasent one?

 

[bling]

I agree those who put will above natural law do not deserve salvation. It causes a disharmony within the human populace. I just don't think putting your faith in a 2000 year old messianc rabbi, and then doing nothing else would suffice to a kind and loving god.

The problem is none of us “deserve” salvation. We are not trying to be “good enough” to be worthy of salvation.

God is not trying to get something from us (that would be silly, since He is the most powerful and Loving being), but since God is Love all he is trying to do is give the greatest gift possible to us.

This gift will actually make us to be like God Himself in that we will have this unselfish type Love.

This Godly type Love is way beyond being instinctive (that would make it robotic) and God cannot just force this Love on us since that would not be loving on God’s part nor would the love we got be Godly type Love.

This gift has to be accepted as the pure charity that it is, but humans do not like to accept charity (so therein lies the rub).

Do you want to be loved for who you are or do you want to be Loved in spite of who you are?

Do you really want to Love the unlovable with no expectation of getting anything positive as the result of such Love?

 

[RCF]

seasonofillusion,
It always interests me when someone comes to this forum and asks a question, but doesn't really seem like he is interested in getting an answer. I would imagine that you know that Christians understand that following Christ is biblically the only way to eternal life.

If you are here to seek help, no one wants to come right out and say, "Sorry, you're out of luck, Hell's in your future." But it does say something as to the people that viewed this and did not respond. I cannot say exctly what was on their minds, but I would imagine, several things could be assumed: You need Jesus, and you don't want him.

Or do you want answeres? Do you want to see how God loved unconditionally, sacrificially? Do you realize that His plan for us includes sacrificial love from Christians to the world around us as well as to other Christians?

I want you to go to heaven, but I don't have the authority. I do have the ability to pray for you, and that you will learn to love biblically, sacrifically, and understand what Christianity is about. It's not about pointing out those that wouln't make it to heaven. It's about helping everyone that we can get there.

RCF

 

[seasonofillusions]

The problem is none of us “deserve” salvation. We are not trying to be “good enough” to be worthy of salvation.

God is not trying to get something from us (that would be silly, since He is the most powerful and Loving being), but since God is Love all he is trying to do is give the greatest gift possible to us.

This gift will actually make us to be like God Himself in that we will have this unselfish type Love.

This Godly type Love is way beyond being instinctive (that would make it robotic) and God cannot just force this Love on us since that would not be loving on God’s part nor would the love we got be Godly type Love.

This gift has to be accepted as the pure charity that it is, but humans do not like to accept charity (so therein lies the rub).

Do you want to be loved for who you are or do you want to be Loved in spite of who you are?

Do you really want to Love the unlovable with no expectation of getting anything positive as the result of such Love?

See that's where we don't agree some of us deserve more bliss than this world has given, some of us deserve pain than this world has given. The world is obviously unfair. I'm not saying I'm deserving of heaven, or anyone is deserving of hell. I'm not the one who I would think should make those choices. The whole idea of salvation from belief in a name or deity alone sounds silly. No matter if you call it Jesus Christ or LKAJSKLAJHLD it should have the same effect. Would a rose by any other name smell different. I guess the issue I have is that Christians openly judge people, do things in the name of Christ some good, some bad. I just don't want to identify with the history of that movement for various reasons, and bible alone too. My main question is do people who aren't Christians by name goto hell? It's a simple yes or no.

 

[seasonofillusions]

seasonofillusion,
It always interests me when someone comes to this forum and asks a question, but doesn't really seem like he is interested in getting an answer. I would imagine that you know that Christians understand that following Christ is biblically the only way to eternal life.

If you are here to seek help, no one wants to come right out and say, "Sorry, you're out of luck, Hell's in your future." But it does say something as to the people that viewed this and did not respond. I cannot say exctly what was on their minds, but I would imagine, several things could be assumed: You need Jesus, and you don't want him.

Or do you want answeres? Do you want to see how God loved unconditionally, sacrificially? Do you realize that His plan for us includes sacrificial love from Christians to the world around us as well as to other Christians?

I want you to go to heaven, but I don't have the authority. I do have the ability to pray for you, and that you will learn to love biblically, sacrifically, and understand what Christianity is about. It's not about pointing out those that wouln't make it to heaven. It's about helping everyone that we can get there.

RCF

Finally a person with the audacity to answer my question, it's all I wanted to know is that Christians think nonchristians are going to hell no matter what they do, no matter what they think. That would also mean some Christians who are horrid people go to heaven, some wonderful atheists will get hell. That's all I really wanted to hear. It seems you're the only one who would answer that from a Christian perspective. Well it just wouldn't be heaven without me I tell ya (if your a philosophic type you'll get that joke the right way).

 

[ChristianT]

Finally a person with the audacity to answer my question, it's all I wanted to know is that Christians think nonchristians are going to hell no matter what they do, no matter what they think. That would also mean some Christians who are horrid people go to heaven, some wonderful atheists will get hell. That's all I really wanted to hear. It seems you're the only one who would answer that from a Christian perspective. Well it just wouldn't be heaven without me I tell ya (if your a philosophic type you'll get that joke the right way).

Well, I got the joke, but it seems like you believe a condition to be a [true] Christian is to 1) believe in hell in the Western sense, 2) believe anyone goes there. Hence, Orthodox Christians are...not Christians?

 

[seasonofillusions]

seasonofillusion,
It always interests me when someone comes to this forum and asks a question, but doesn't really seem like he is interested in getting an answer. I would imagine that you know that Christians understand that following Christ is biblically the only way to eternal life.

If you are here to seek help, no one wants to come right out and say, "Sorry, you're out of luck, Hell's in your future." But it does say something as to the people that viewed this and did not respond. I cannot say exctly what was on their minds, but I would imagine, several things could be assumed: You need Jesus, and you don't want him.

Or do you want answeres? Do you want to see how God loved unconditionally, sacrificially? Do you realize that His plan for us includes sacrificial love from Christians to the world around us as well as to other Christians?

I want you to go to heaven, but I don't have the authority. I do have the ability to pray for you, and that you will learn to love biblically, sacrifically, and understand what Christianity is about. It's not about pointing out those that wouln't make it to heaven. It's about helping everyone that we can get there.

RCF

Well, I got the joke, but it seems like you believe a condition to be a [true] Christian is to 1) believe in hell in the Western sense, 2) believe anyone goes there. Hence, Orthodox Christians are...not Christians?

Ya know I believe everything is gonna be all right. I guess about ten years after losing touch with religion I had to look back, and see if I was better. I'm way more "christlike" than when I called myself a Christian. It's really a matter of what makes a man Christlike. I don't need dogma, I don't need drama, I don't need politics, cause I have family, I have love, and I have hope. Everything is gonna be all right, thanks guys. May your lives and thereafter be filled with blessings.

 

[ChristianT]

Ya know I believe everything is gonna be all right. I guess about ten years after losing touch with religion I had to look back, and see if I was better. I'm way more "christlike" than when I called myself a Christian. It's really a matter of what makes a man Christlike. I don't need dogma, I don't need drama, I don't need politics, cause I have family, I have love, and I have hope. Everything is gonna be all right, thanks guys. May your lives and thereafter be filled with blessings.

And who better to make a man Christlike than Christ Hinself?

 

[RCF]

I never said everyone that claims or even thinks they are a Christian is, in fact, a Christian. That is the biggest falicy that is continually taught leading to condemnation. "You are saved, don't wory, you can't loose your salvation." But you can't loose what you haven't got yet.

If you are a minimalist Christian, you are likely not a Christian at all.

RCF

 

[seasonofillusions]

And who better to make a man Christlike than Christ Hinself?

I do like Christ, the sermon on the mount, the parables, love em. It's the rest of it that irks me.

 

[RCF]

Ok, I'm hooked. What parts irk you?

 

[seasonofillusions]

Lots of the figurative stuff in the old testament, the old covenant, some of what paul wrote. You know the parts I like the most are the ones lined in red, which indicate where Jesus is speaking. I also like Cornithians view on Love. I'm a fan of some of King Solomons writings because it takes an apathetic look at materialism. Materialism is the opposite of fruitful goals.