Do all Non-Christians go to hell?

[RCF]

You know, Christians follow the stuff in red. And yes, Paul can be pretty harsh in his teaching.

I don't pretend to understand everything in the bible, and if I did, I would suggest you stop listening to me instantly. Liars cannot be trusted. But simply put, the old testament laid the groundwork for Jesus. Jesus laid out His plan for salvation (including how to live before you die). The apostles expanded on what Jesus said with he help of the Holy Spirit.

When reading Paul's letters, I have to remember something often: we are benefiting from his words, but they were mailed to someone else. Someone in a specific part of the world, with specific strengths and unique cultures. To understand what Paul says is to understand who he said it to as well. I don't read greek, hebrew, or aramaic. Not even sure how to spell aramaic. And I am not a biblical anthropologist, understanding the nuances of Roman cultures and subcultures, but the things that I have researched and asked others for help understanding has helped me come to understand that Paul was prety on top of his game.

It is interesting about your view of corinthian love. Paul taught the Corinthians a lot about love: don't sue your brothers in Christ, the principles of marriage. Without love, we gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind. Love does not envy, is not boastful, is not conceited, does not act improperly, is not selfish, is not provoked, and does not keep a record of wrongs...the greatest gift of all is love. If we simply read and followed 1 Corinthians 13, wow, incredible; beautifully said, and a model for every Christian to model.

I sruggle every day, trying to live up to those concepts of love. In short, we should love others as, and above ourselves. Easy to say, hard to live. Luckily, I don't have to be perfect, thanks to what Jesus did for me. Neither do you.

 

[seasonofillusions]

You know, Christians follow the stuff in red. And yes, Paul can be pretty harsh in his teaching.

I don't pretend to understand everything in the bible, and if I did, I would suggest you stop listening to me instantly. Liars cannot be trusted. But simply put, the old testament laid the groundwork for Jesus. Jesus laid out His plan for salvation (including how to live before you die). The apostles expanded on what Jesus said with he help of the Holy Spirit.

When reading Paul's letters, I have to remember something often: we are benefiting from his words, but they were mailed to someone else. Someone in a specific part of the world, with specific strengths and unique cultures. To understand what Paul says is to understand who he said it to as well. I don't read greek, hebrew, or aramaic. Not even sure how to spell aramaic. And I am not a biblical anthropologist, understanding the nuances of Roman cultures and subcultures, but the things that I have researched and asked others for help understanding has helped me come to understand that Paul was prety on top of his game.

It is interesting about your view of corinthian love. Paul taught the Corinthians a lot about love: don't sue your brothers in Christ, the principles of marriage. Without love, we gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind. Love does not envy, is not boastful, is not conceited, does not act improperly, is not selfish, is not provoked, and does not keep a record of wrongs...the greatest gift of all is love. If we simply read and followed 1 Corinthians 13, wow, incredible; beautifully said, and a model for every Christian to model.

I sruggle every day, trying to live up to those concepts of love. In short, we should love others as, and above ourselves. Easy to say, hard to live. Luckily, I don't have to be perfect, thanks to what Jesus did for me. Neither do you.

I think the whole world needs a higher standard of love, and Corinthians sets a good example. Again that's one of my favorite parts of the bible hands down. I pull a lot of stuff out of the bible for inspiration. I guess the biggest hold up, is calling myself a Christian, or a Buddist, Or a Hindu. I am what I am, and I am inspired by more than just one holy book. I'm inspired by many secular books as well. Many new age books published in the 80s and 90s too. I do search for a sense of a higher love, and I would say Christ is a higher love. If Christ wanted to come into my life and give me inspiration I'd be for that. Going around and proclaiming to know... to know by faith alone is just not how my mind works. I'm glad there are people who identify as Christians that understand there are people like me, and we do want to be inspired by Christ or any sense of being like him. We just don't want all the baggage, and social requisitions of belonging to a Christian community. Not all those who wander are lost ya know. I'm not perfect RCF, I saw that you were from Alabama and you know the preconcieved notion that comes with the southern baptist brand, I was totally wrong. You are humble, you are kind, you admit fault, from what I can tell you are a good man. My grandfather was a Baptist minister, I loved him very much, the reason I know so much about the bible is because of that man. I have no one bad thing to say about my grandfather. I have a lot of junk to say about those among us and those deceased but he was one of the few who I hold in total regard. I miss him, a lot, I plan on seeing him again, if god is loving and merciful, I will see him again. I took Christ into my heart at age 14 knowingly, and maybe he never left, because throughout the years, something positive has been shaping me. I know it isn't the video games I play and the rock music I listen to. It's gotta be him. So at this point, I have to rethink how I view actual Christians (not the pretend ones). RCF you've been really helpful for me getting my mind together.

 

[bling]

See that's where we don't agree some of us deserve more bliss than this world has given, some of us deserve pain than this world has given. The world is obviously unfair. I'm not saying I'm deserving of heaven, or anyone is deserving of hell. I'm not the one who I would think should make those choices. The whole idea of salvation from belief in a name or deity alone sounds silly. No matter if you call it Jesus Christ or LKAJSKLAJHLD it should have the same effect. Would a rose by any other name smell different. I guess the issue I have is that Christians openly judge people, do things in the name of Christ some good, some bad. I just don't want to identify with the history of that movement for various reasons, and bible alone too. My main question is do people who aren't Christians by name goto hell? It's a simple yes or no.

The simple answer is NO.

That does not mean they go to heaven, by their own standards of who should or should not be in heaven.

God judges the individual’s heart. The hard heart is prideful (wants to be loved by others for who he/she is), self-reliant, proud of what he/she has done, minimizes the wrong they have done, and looks to self to solve his/her problems. The tender heart is humble, knows what a failure he/she have been in that they have hurt others in the past, has a hurting conscience over past actions that have hurt others, and is very willing to accept charitable help from other (including God)

 

[RCF]

I love you brother. I have completely enjoyed our dialogue. I am at work right now, so I can't get too deep, but I'll get back to your last post in a bit.

Until later,
RCF

 

[RCF]

seasonofillusion,

I really apreciate your comments. And I really feel a kind of kinship to you. You sound a lot like me in your search for truth. Let me tell you a little about how I got how and where I am. I grew up in a fairly strict, very conservative and small church in south Alabama. We knew all about the scriptures. You would probablyt call us bible thumpers. Every action we pursued had to have a reference in the bible, no matter what. As a kid of 12, we had an enthusiastic, young preacher, Johhny, who took us kids under his wing and showed us true friendship. He was my preacher, but also one of my best friends. And at age 12, I was baptised. A few years later, he was let go to have a fresh voice in the pulpit. He was replaced by someone with fire. He could really let you see and feel the fires of Hell when he talked. But something was missing.

The love you spoke of earlier was disapearing. Soon, going to church became "how to get to heaven 101" and " don't mess up 101". Looking back at it, we studied the bible like it was stereo instructions, or a math equation: 4x +7y = getting to heaven. By the time I graduated high school, I was pretty much sick of religion.

I joined the army band and travelled the northeast, making friends all along the way. Secular friends. I learned of new concepts and different philosophies. I came back after my 3 years and was not welcomed back to my former church fondly. I hadn't been christian enough in my time away. Enough said, see ya later, off to college.

It took me years, and the birth of my son to really get my attention. But that wasn't everything, either. Long story, somewhat short version...don't ever say, "I'll never go to a southern baptist church". That's where I am now. The baptist religion, however, doesn't define me. I do, and my discoveries about Jesus.

I found out that there was something different about Jesus. Budda and Alla never claimed to be God on earth. No other major religious head piece has historical evidence of being raised from the dead, never to die again.

I read several books on apologetics, and a relatively small one helped me the most, "More Than a Carpenter", by Josh McDowell. In it, I found some interesting things. All the apostles except one, died a martyr's death, refusing to dispell their belief that Jesus was the son of God, died, and was raised in three days. No one could produce the body. No one has an explanation for what happened except, what the bible claims, ther resurection.

Look at the desciple to apostle journey. Once they were mild mannered Jews, afraid of conflict, willing to ride on the messiah's coat tails, but then He died. They almost gave up. They went home after Calvary, until Jesus came back to them. Those days that Jesus spent with them totaly convicted them. They became fearless, spoksmen for Jesus, being flogged, imprisoned, stoned, crucified; nothing could change their story or their belief. This is supported not only by the bible, but by unbiased historians.

That, in my opinion, is what makes Christianity different. We can draw motivation and inspiration from many sources, but the only source that is a valid guide to salvation is given to us by Jesus.

No church is perfect. If you find yourself in a perfect church, get out quickly, before you mess it up. ( My pastor gave me that one.) I have had a difficult time finding a place that I feel comfortable in. There seems to be a problem with about every place I've tried out. Did you hear what I just said? I was trying out churches. I am supposed to be a Christian, and recently, the last few years, I have found my self closer and closer to God. I am not rich, but I give what I can. Not only to church, but to those I see in need. But that wasn't enough. Love. We have a hard time letting ourselves love these days. It is too dangerous, too risky. You could be stabbed in the back by someone you trust. Well, that was my leap of faith. I want to know people more now. People I used to have casual conversations with have become friends. I am not there yet, but I am building Love around me by giving love.

Praying was probably my biggest assistant. Let God know it all. He already does, but put it out there for him. Ask him into your life, your soul. Recently, as I go to sleep, I pray for Him to teach me through my dreams. Any way to be closer to God is worth trying.

Every Christman, we hear the phrase, "It's better to give than to receive." I have found that that is false. Giving, and I mean truly giving, IS receiving. They are totaly congruent. I am just figuring this out. Give of yourself, Just as Jesus did.

My brother, I feel like we are in a battle for your soul. I can't win. I can only participate in your battle. And I believe the seeds that your grandfather planted are trying to sprout. I want to help you pour the water of life into your soul. I want you to come home.

OK, my daugher is demanding art time with daddy, so I will break here. Never planned to write so long, but I felt compelled to give you something for reference.

Keep me posted seasonofillusions,
Your brother,
RCF

 

[alexsonofmatthew]

Only God knows

 

[marc16]

From my understanding hell was created not as a place for human souls, but as a cage for lucifer and other fallen angels. So I would say no.

 

[Faulty]

From my understanding hell was created not as a place for human souls, but as a cage for lucifer and other fallen angels. So I would say no.

It was, and the verse you got that from is Matthew 25:41 where millions of humans were in the process of being sent there:

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
​

 

[Faulty]

Okay there are many types of non Christians, even Nonchristians who have never heard the word Christ, or the concept of salvation. I'm the kind of nonchristian, in which Christanity was against my values. I started out as a Christian in West Michigan, because everyone was a Christian for the most part. I didn't want to be an odd duck. When I was about 17 I started to realize the more I read the bible, the more it wasn't going along what I knew to be true. I have experienced so much in my life, and I know truth when I see it. I consider myself Panenthestic, sometimes agnostic because my assertions can never be proven on an empirical level. I see what I call the "essence of good" or what you call Christ in a child's smile, in a waterfall, in a butterfly, in a blue sky, on a beautiful painting. I do not see the essence of good in the bible, I see a mixed bunch of ramblings so much of which seem to be good but fall short, and some of which seem to be evil, and some obscure. I run into Christians every day, but my biggest wonder is what they think of me, it would be hard to choke down to know that the majority of the populace thinks I will suffer eternal. So I ask Am I going to hell in your mind?

Jesus was clear on this...

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:36

​

Don't trust in what you "know" to be true, because you are not the authority on which these things hinge. A criminal can swear all day long to a judge that he don't believe in laws or jails, but if won't matter a bit when he's sentenced, because he's not the authority on the matter either.

 

[Mikeb85]

So I ask Am I going to hell in your mind?

My opinion, no. In the end, God judges, but we believe Him to be merciful and compassionate.

 

[Keladria]

This is a question which I struggle with. What about if someone is brought up in another religion, like Islam or Hinduism? They were taught by their family and by their religious elders that their religion was true. They lived their whole lives as good people (not as in perfect, because no one is perfect, but primarily kind and honest people, asking for forgiveness for their mistakes and trying to do better). Even if they had some exposure to Christianity, why would they ignore the teachings of the people who they trust the most and who have had the most influence in their lives?

Do these people get sent to hell? And if so, how is that just? How is that a demonstration of love and forgiveness?

Edit: I am not trying to create trouble, this is a genuine question.

 

[Lollerskates]

This is a question which I struggle with. What about if someone is brought up in another religion, like Islam or Hinduism? They were taught by their family and by their religious elders that their religion was true. They lived their whole lives as good people (not as in perfect, because no one is perfect, but primarily kind and honest people, asking for forgiveness for their mistakes and trying to do better). Even if they had some exposure to Christianity, why would they ignore the teachings of the people who they trust the most and who have had the most influence in their lives?

Do these people get sent to hell? And if so, how is that just? How is that a demonstration of love and forgiveness?

Edit: I am not trying to create trouble, this is a genuine question.

God is not stupid, nor is He lacking in reasoning. If someone truly has had absolutely no opportunity to come to Him, and/or their opportunities to come to Him have been nullified, then He will judge them accordingly. This is one of the reasons for the second resurrection.

Now, it is the individuals responsibility to, when given a seed, choose whether to cultivate it or toss it aside. If you are exposed to Christianity in any way a seed has been planted. If you choose to research the faith, read the books, and listen to the ministers/people of the faith, then you are responsible for everything you receive. If you choose to ignore all of it, having been introduced to it, you are still responsible for the information you are ignoring. The love and forgiveness comes from us not having to be charged with breaking divine universal law - sinning. The punishment for breaking Divine Universal Law is death of the spirit and body. Christians assert that Christ sacrificed Himself so that everyone else (who is guilty of sin and worth of death) can boldly approach God in love and fellowship without the fear of Him rejecting us for our sin. God is a gentleman, so He will let you decide whether or not that makes sense to you, and whether or not you want a relationship with Him. Moreover, we are at war - spiritual war. There is a war for your soul. Rejecting God means a +1 for the enemy - even denial of God and the enemy(ies) of God is a +1 for the enemy.

So, the choice is yours. Think of it like wartime: do you trust that General "so-and-so" is your commander, even if you have never seen him before? Would you do what he says, even though he hasn't visibly presented himself to you? Are orders/words from his lieutenants/Majors/Captains enough to convince you of "so-and-so's" commanding power and existence? Would you follow direct orders from the General, even if it doesn't make sense at the time to you, or it goes against what you understand/believe at the time? Or, would you feel like because the General has never showed himself, and has just sent others to speak for him, that he may not even exist (and even the Tops may not know who he is)? Would you feel like you are your own authority on the battlefield? Just something to think about.

 

[Dre99]

The bible makes it clear Jesus alone is the way truth and light. If you don't have him when you die, you don't have salvation...no heaven. Which leaves one place left. Like it or lump it.

That being said, nobody can know what's going through someone's heart at their moment of death. Some may have repented, some may not have. We won't know until its our time.