Do All Baptists Believe In Once Save Always Saved

[Waddler]

I always thought that this was a Calvinist belief but a few days ago I found out that it's also a Baptist belief.

The question is do all Baptist adhere to OSAS?

The way I look at it, Calvinist is to Baptist as hamburger is to beef. That is to say, you can be a Calvinist with or without being a Baptist, and you can have hamburger that isn't necessarily beef.

I am not a Calvinist nor a Baptist, but my beliefs fall more in line with the latter. I agree with Calvinists that our salvation is predestined, but nothing else. Therefore, I do believe in OSAS, simply because it was predestined before we were ever created.

There are those who have done and will do a masterful job of mucking up their lives by straying from the path God would have them walk, but they are still Christians. Furthermore, as I have been one of those people, I do not concern myself with whether someone is a Christian; only God and that person can know that for sure.

 

[Radagast]

it's pretty difficult since OSAS is almost a defining doctrine for the rest of the Baptist family, especially the Southern Baptists.

I'd say Calvinism was widespread and growing among Southern Baptists, but certainly not defining. Some Southern Baptists reject Calvinism -- see this news story: "Traditional" Southern Baptists counter Calvinism

 

[Radagast]

Calvinists do not believe in OSAS we believe in perseverance of the saints. OSAS is a heresy.

Well, the term "OSAS" is certainly often used to refer to Calvinism (especially by Baptists).

Many Calvinists (including Calvinistic Baptists) don't like the term, however, and don't like certain oversimplified versions of the doctrine of perseverance of the saints -- which is, I think, your issue here.

Personally, I'm not wild about the term "OSAS" either. It tends to start unhelpful discussions.

 

[Radagast]

Well than I have a question for you. If one receives salvation,turns his back on God and either becomes an atheist or a satantic worshiper and dies in those beliefs are you telling me he still have his salvation?

Calvinists would say that such a person was never saved in the first place.

 

[OzSpen]

Well, the term "OSAS" is certainly often used to refer to Calvinism (especially by Baptists).

Many Calvinists (including Calvinistic Baptists) don't like the term, however, and don't like certain oversimplified versions of the doctrine of perseverance of the saints -- which is, I think, your issue here.

Personally, I'm not wild about the term "OSAS" either. It tends to start unhelpful discussions.

I also agree that I don't find the terms OSAS or eternal security to be helpful.

However, I as a Reformed Arminian also believe in perseverance of the saints. It is not exclusive to Calvinism. Stephen M Ashby has an exposition of this Reformed Arminian view in Four Views on Eternal Security (Zondervan).

 

[Radagast]

I also agree that I don't find the terms OSAS or eternal security to be helpful.

However, I as a Reformed Arminian also believe in perseverance of the saints. It is not exclusive to Calvinism. Stephen M Ashby has an exposition of this Reformed Arminian view in Four Views on Eternal Security (Zondervan).

Well, I meant "perseverance of the saints" in the Calvinist sense (the "P" in "TULIP").

I don't think the phrase "perseverance of the saints" really captures the Classical Arminian view on Eternal Security. It's unusual (and I think, unhelpful to discussion) for a Classical Arminian to reinterpret this very traditional phrase in a non-Calvinist sense.

 

[Bluelion]

Well than I have a question for you. If one receives salvation,turns his back on God and either becomes an atheist or a satantic worshiper and dies in those beliefs are you telling me he still have his salvation?

A person who turns there back on God was not saved to start with. No child of God would ever reject their father it is just not in them.

BTW thanks for mocking my typo than Love is not rude. This forum is so abusive and yet everyone calls themselves a child of God interesting how that works. I guess some people think they don't have to obey God just believe, not you or even saying anyone in this thread just some people I guess. I guess its pretty clear what you belive that you can lose your salvation that God lied in John 6 so have a nice day.

 

[James Is Back]

Um where did I mock your typo?

 

[Bluelion]

According the Catholics, Calvinism is a heresy so I think it would be wise to watch how you fling that word around.

The OSAS believers of my acquaintance DO believe it matters greatly how one lives. Being OSAS myself, I absolutely believe it matters that I walk with Christ and not in sin. IF we are truly saved, we want to please God, and love others, and not live in sin. Your post is a mis-characterization if OSAS and to lump all OSAS believers as living "profligate lives and have no interest in the things of God" is wrongly insulting a group.

and I here the same thing from many, well osas is a licensed to sin No it is not. I don't want to sin I love God. I trust God that when he says I am saved He means just that, that does not mean I go ok wild sin party I can do anything I want. If people think that is what OSAS is all about that convicts the person saying it because it shows they love sin more than God and the only reason they want to follow God is to escape punishment and it simple does not work that way. A person can not be saved simply because they do not want to be punished, They must have a real Love for God, and no one who Love's God wants to sin because God hates sin so much.

I think many people are scared of OSAS the rest have just been taught it is wrong.

 

[Bluelion]

Best advice of all - Read the Scriptures, know the scriptures, and follow what the LORD teaches in His holy scriptures!

Also, Hebrews 10 has a similar warning to all who come close to Christ (have received a knowledge of the truth.) It is not 100% clear if these had become what we like to label as "Christians," but they did attain a level of knowledge of God's Truth that left them without excuse. They would have made certain progress in coming to Christ, and then, turned their backs, walked under foot the good things revealed to them and done for them by God, and done all this despite the clear understanding of a benefit they already received in seeking the LORD.

Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Hebrews 10
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
​

We can devise a statement that displays what we have decided is a principle of God's truth, but it must match what scripture states for it to have any usefulness.

One good sermon I heard 30 years ago stated that there are 8 things God does in saving a soul. He listed them and expounded upon each alphabetically.

1- Adoption
2- Atonement
3- Conversion
4- Forgiveness
5- Justification
6- Reconciliation
7- Redemption
8- Regeneration
​

I had not considered this as a truly saved person changing to follow self, sin and the devil. If we get some of what God does to bring a sinner to Him, and turn away, we may not actually have been what is categorized as SAVED, but have gone far enough with God where there is no returning. It is a fearful thing indeed to put ourselves in this position and then face the living God with our rebellion. It is a double rejection of the LORD.

The real problem comes when Churches (of any stripe) think they are to assure someone they are "SAVED" outside the full assurance and pure sense given to them by God's Holy Spirit. Churches have criteria, and if you do certain things, or say certain things, you are SAVED. Then, they need to come up with explanations like this, and doctrines to cover things they don't see handled that way in scripture.

.

You have a problem there if it means what you are preaching then John 6 is un true.

35 Jesus replied, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry again. Whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But you haven’t believed in me even though you have seen me. 37 However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them. 38 For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will. 39 And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day. 40 For it is my Father’s will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day.”


Now that is pretty clear, never reject, and not one but raise them up.

 

[Bluelion]

Um where did I mock your typo?

oh I am sorry i thought when you said let me ask you a question than, you were mocking when I should have used then, as you should have used then. I am sorry if I got it wrong, please forgive my mistake if that is what it was?

The answer to your question is they were never saved. I don't believe Jesus died in vain for some or God plays words games oh you were saved then you rejected me. Just how does that work did we enter heaven and then get thrown out for a 3 time? Saved from what if we never received it?

 

[James Is Back]

oh I am sorry i thought when you said let me ask you a question than, you were mocking when I should have used then, as you should have used then. I am sorry if I got it wrong, please forgive my mistake if that is what it was?

Oh no worries

 

[AgapeBible]

What about whenever Jesus said there are those who say "Lord, Lord," yet He will say to them, "Turn away from me you wicked, I never knew you?" There are a lot of hypocrites who do not behave like Christians even though they bear Christ's name.


Just because you are a Christian does not mean you will be spared the great white seat of Judgment. We will all be called to account for our actions.

 

[classicalhero]

Why don't you read Hebrews 6:4-6.

I have a detailed exposition at: ‘Once Saved, Always Saved, or Once Saved, Lost Again‘.

This section of Scripture is referring to those who commit apostasy (repudiate the faith) and not to those who back-slide – in my understanding. There is no place for repentance for those who commit apostasy.

One of the saddest of such cases is seen in the apostasy of Charles Templeton who in the 1940s was an evangelistic colleague of Billy Graham in Youth for Christ and then departed from the faith [see ‘Charles Templeton (1915-2001)’]. His story is told in his book Farewell to God (1996. Toronto, Ontario: McClelland & Stewart).

​

(Courtesy Worldcat)​

Sincerely,
Oz
​

Paul warns us of people like Charles Templeton in 2 Timothy 4. Here Paul warns of people who rather than believe the truth but believe in myths.

 

[morse86]

What about whenever Jesus said there are those who say "Lord, Lord," yet He will say to them, "Turn away from me you wicked, I never knew you?" There are a lot of hypocrites who do not behave like Christians even though they bear Christ's name.


Just because you are a Christian does not mean you will be spared the great white seat of Judgment. We will all be called to account for our actions.

Jesus said he "never knew them".....not "I used to know you". God says salvation is a free gift from God...if it was ever by work..it would be a debt instead. Salvation is by faith.....once saved you cannot lose it. It isn't a process, it is instant. Once you believed on Jesus Christ, it is done....you have everlasting life.

Both the saints and the unbelievers will stand in front of God and be judged according to their works. However the saints will not be condemned (cast into hell). Jesus said John the Baptist was one of the greatest on the earth....yet the least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than John.

 

[iambren]

I like the language better--"Once that I am truly born again I will always be born again". It's definitely harder to say but more accurate. "Saved" seems too subjective a word and reminds me of those who fly down to the altar for some "fire insurance" then go about living their life as they pleased,reassured by their buddies to coast along with OSAS.

I certainly understand those who are sensitive and need an assurance of salvation and if OSAS helps a tender soul then fine. In the bottom line I see the clarity of knowledge on who is "saved" as being greater in the mind of God than in our limited minds.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Well than I have a question for you. If one receives salvation,turns his back on God and either becomes an atheist or a satantic worshiper and dies in those beliefs are you telling me he still have his salvation?

For those who live out such a scenario, we baptists who believe in once saved always saved merely say such a person was never truly saved.

 

[Bluelion]

What about whenever Jesus said there are those who say "Lord, Lord," yet He will say to them, "Turn away from me you wicked, I never knew you?" There are a lot of hypocrites who do not behave like Christians even though they bear Christ's name.


Just because you are a Christian does not mean you will be spared the great white seat of Judgment. We will all be called to account for our actions.

psst They are not children of God, they do not bare His name. You answered your own question. Jesus said i never Knew you.

Yes children of God will be spared judgement, because Jesus already took that judgement upon Him self.

 

[Avid]

I like the language better--"Once that I am truly born again I will always be born again". It's definitely harder to say but more accurate. "Saved" seems too subjective a word and reminds me of those who fly down to the altar for some "fire insurance" then go about living their life as they pleased,reassured by their buddies to coast along with OSAS.

I certainly understand those who are sensitive and need an assurance of salvation and if OSAS helps a tender soul then fine. In the bottom line I see the clarity of knowledge on who is "saved" as being greater in the mind of God than in our limited minds.

Much of why I wrote my reply. We seem to be OBLIGATED to include people who SAY THEY ARE SAVED in all verses that assure that God will preserve the people He gives to Jesus Christ to redeem, be adopted, etc.

If the LORD does not know them, because they are NONE OF HIS, there is a terrible day coming when all this error will be rectified, and there will be the restitution of all things. (Acts 3:21)

You have a problem there if it means what you are preaching then John 6 is un true.

35 Jesus replied, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry again. Whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But you haven’t believed in me even though you have seen me. 37 However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them. 38 For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will. 39 And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day. 40 For it is my Father’s will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day.”


Now that is pretty clear, never reject, and not one but raise them up.

I have no problem with John 6, and this opinion about people who refuse to go far enough with God, but turn back, is not covered in verses about what Jesus will do for His own. I gave verses that state this plainly.

The problems come when someone picks and chooses which verses they will believe. We must accept the truth of ALL the Bible, or none of it. If we insist on rejecting significant passages because they are not aligned with our doctrine, we must answer to God about that.

.

 

[Bluelion]

Paul warns us of people like Charles Templeton in 2 Timothy 4. Here Paul warns of people who rather than believe the truth but believe in myths.

Actually Paul ask if a person received the Holy Spirit and said if they had not they were not saved.

Acts19 NLT
19 While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior regions until he reached Ephesus, on the coast, where he found several believers.[a] 2 “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” he asked them.

“No,” they replied, “we haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3 “Then what baptism did you experience?” he asked.

And they replied, “The baptism of John.”

4 Paul said, “John’s baptism called for repentance from sin. But John himself told the people to believe in the one who would come later, meaning Jesus.”

5 As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.


The answer to your question is he was never saved.

1 John 2 NLT

18 Dear children, the last hour is here. You have heard that the Antichrist is coming, and already many such antichrists have appeared. From this we know that the last hour has come. 19 These people left our churches, but they never really belonged with us; otherwise they would have stayed with us. When they left, it proved that they did not belong with us.

20 But you are not like that, for the Holy One has given you his Spirit,[e] and all of you know the truth. 21 So I am writing to you not because you don’t know the truth but because you know the difference between truth and lies. 22 And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ.[f] Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist.[g] 23 Anyone who denies the Son doesn’t have the Father, either. But anyone who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.


Seems like John explain pretty clear why this guy left the church.