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Featured Do aborted infants go to heaven?

Discussion in 'Debates on Abortion' started by Prisoner No. 6, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. YesMe

    YesMe Active Member

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    All children that die before the age of moral responsibility stay with God, they have no future in our human world, some have one day, some years, some die before even coming into this world.It's a mistake to go with "what if", there's no "what if", when a person dies, that person dies at the appointed time, it has no future beyond that point in time, no more "what if".
     
  2. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    What exactly is the age of moral responsibility? How many years?
     
  3. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    If they did not exist and did not receive their souls they do not stay with God, they simply never exist. Its not like there is a collection of people up there waiting for human bodies to be allocated to them, The body and soul are formed at a similar time. Also none of us attain a perfect level of moral responsibility even as adults. It is our implicit response to God unconscious or conscious that matters. Potentially a baby could be just as evil and unsaved as an adult in that regard.
     
  4. YesMe

    YesMe Active Member

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    When the human being becomes aware of evil and good.Have you not seen that there is a global thing to force children to "become adults" from a much younger age? This is how Satan works, he corrupts everything.
     
  5. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    And when is it, in what age?
     
  6. YesMe

    YesMe Active Member

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    I agree, this could also be an answer, but we don't truly know, we discuss here.Yes, this is what I believe too, the spirit is created by God when a new life is created, but we don't know if this happens exactly when the creation process starts or later on when the unborn child has a real body inside the womb.

    This is my opinion, this is what my conscience is telling me, when the process of creating a new life starts, God creates a new spirit and this spirit comes and unites with the new life that develops in the mother's womb.

    Yes, "potentially", we are all capable to great evils.
     
  7. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I believe all perish having been judged guilty in Adam. This is why babies who never consciously sin die. The wages of sin is death. I believe elect infants who die are regenerated and go to heaven. But for the rest we have no such hope. If infants who die go to heaven as taught in the age of accountability doctrine, it doesn't make sense for Christians to oppose abortion, since most of these would end up rejecting Christ in time as others do.
     
  8. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    And are they in the form of fetus there? Or as grown people? If as grown people, where did they get their personality from?
     
  9. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    “And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already.” (Exodus 1:5)
     
  10. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    I do not understand what you want to say...
     
  11. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Souls exist in the lineage of their ancestors.
     
  12. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    Ah, no, it only means "from the loins of Jacob came 70 people". Its just a figure of speach, they talked about people like about souls.

    But even if your technical reading would be right, I still do not understand if the fetus would be in heaven as a fetus or full grown.
     
  13. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are genetically all that your ancestors were.
     
  14. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    No, there are also mutations.

    But even if it would be true, a soul is not genetics/flesh, right?
     
  15. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What does scripture say?

    נֶ֫פֶשׁ S5315 TWOT1395a GK5883756 n.f. Gn 49:6 (so even Gn 2:19 Nu 31:28 1 K 19:2 v. Albr ZAW xvi (1896), 42 SS) soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, appetite, emotion, and passion (Ecclus 3:18; 4:1(×2), 2(×2) 13:12; 14:11);—נ׳ Gn 1:20 +; נָ֑פֶשׁ Gn 37:21 +; sf. נַפְשִׁי Gn 12:13 +; pl. נְפָשׁוֹת Ez 13:18 + 13 times; נְפָשֹׁת Ex 12:4; Lv 27:2; cstr. נַפְשׁוֹת Gn 36:6 + 4 times; נַפְשֹׁת Lv 21:11; נְפָשִׁים Ez 13:20 (but read חָפְשִׁים, v Co Berthol Toy); sf. נַפְשׁוֹתָם 2 S 23:17 +; נַפְשֹׁתָם Nu 17:3 +: —
    1. = that which breathes, the breathing substance or being = ψυχή, anima, the soul, the inner being of man: a. disting. from בָּשָׂר: מִנֶּפֶשׁ וְעַד בָּשָׂר Is 10:18; הַנֶּפֶשׁ עִם הַבָּשָׂר Dt 12:23; from שְׁאֵר Pr 11:17; from בֶּטֶן body ψ 31:10. b. both the inner נפשׁ and the outer בשׂר are conceived as resting on a common substratum: אַךְ בְּשָׂרוֹ


    Brown, F., Driver, S. R., & Briggs, C. A. (1977). Enhanced Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon (p. 659). Oxford: Clarendon Press.
     
  16. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    No one else knows the answer to these questions either. God will do what he will do. He did not share with us every last detail about the nature of the afterlife. Get used to it and you will feel better.
     
  17. YesMe

    YesMe Active Member

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    The wages of sin is death but it was paid fully by Christ, of course, we, conscious beings need to come to Christ in order for us to be saved, but a baby or a child have no idea of good and evil and if they die at a very young age, they are guily of no sin, they are under the curse of sin, but they have done no sin.I said it once again, every man has an appointed time to die, don't go with "what if" because there is no "what if".

    Of course, we are just speculating here, only God knows, we should humble ourselves and trust the Lord, He know better!
     
  18. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So all will be saved in the end?
     
  19. But_First_Coffee

    But_First_Coffee New Member

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    I've always heard two theories:

    1) They weren't alive long enough to commit sin so they automatically go to be with God
    2) They weren't alive long enough to have a soul, so nothing happens at all.

    I prefer to believe the first one. Especially now that some states seem to allow abortions later and later in the process. You can't tell me that my son, when he was like 20 weeks along and I could feel him kick and respond to me....didn't have life and soul.

    And to clarify, yes he made it out into the world and is a happy 9-month-old baby now. but I can't even imagine his little life ending right at the point I described above...be it by accident or on purpose...
     
  20. YesMe

    YesMe Active Member

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    All the people who come to Christ and are born again and bear it to the end are going to be saved.Now, I don't truly know about children and unborn babies, I try to give you my opinion, God knows better, let's humble ourselves and trust the Lord because we have no idea of such things.
     
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