Divorced..and feel a calling to pastor

CoolMom6 · Nov 10, 2005

Christina,

My dear, I would like to call you "friend", and pray for one another...I know where your heart is....((((((ChristinaM))))))

Love in Jesus' Name,
CM4

Honibee · Nov 10, 2005

cm said:
As stated before (over and over again, but you don't seem to get it).........God is MERCIFUL, FULL OF GRACE AND COMPASSION.

I get it, Christina. It grieves me that many who are effected by d/r don't. Grace, mercy and compassion will not leave us in our sin. I wonder just exactly how you interpret Romans 7:2-3, 1Cor. 7:39, ... (all of them that have been mentioned). What do you understand them to mean? Maybe I've missed something you've said in light of these verses.

johnd · Nov 14, 2005

seekfirst said:
I just want your feelings on this. I have a friend who has felt called to be a pastor. He has felt this calling from early on in his life, but did not accept it until now.

Point #1: his refusal may have synched his in ability to go into the pastorate. God is gracious but sometimes offers us an option only once.

He has been divorced twice..

Moses was a murderer, David a polygamist and adulterer, Saul / Paul a persecuter of the Church and witness to the martyrdom of Stephen.

Divorce does not disqualify people from God's being able to use them in ministry. In fact, all believers ought to be in the ministry pertaining to their spiritual gifts (since the New Covenant is the priesthood of all believers).

He is a lay minister now..LMTI. He and two other LMTI graduates have applied to the Delta program, and each of them have been divorced. He hasn't heard back yet from his application, but the two others have, and they were turned down because they were divorced...although when applying there was nothing about not being able to be in the program because of divorce...except that the reasoning of the divorces would be looked at. The two other men also had wives that left, and divorced them, one with adultery, and one who was in the military, and had his wife left him when he was at sea.

Small minded denominational thinking. The passages that say the overseer must be the husband of one wife assures us of two things:

1. it must be the job of a man (a woman cannot be the husband)
2. the man must not be a polygamist but have only one wife he is currently married to

My friend is gifted at preaching, he has filled in for our pastor when our pastor was out for the weekend. He has a gift for reaching people. He feels called.

Great. Have him start a home Bible study. I suggest he contact Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. www.calvarychapel.com

The founder, Pastor Chuck Smith abandoned denominationalism (his was the four square denomination) to preach the Word unemcumbered by denominational party lines but according to just what the Bible says.

He may be the pastor of a Calvary Chapel someday that he built from a home Bible study as so many Calvary Chapel pastors have.

Setfreebygrace · Nov 15, 2005

I have a question for you. I was a pastors son growing up and my parents divorced when I was 15. I turned away from God for three and a half years in total rebellion. I drank alcohol every night, got involed doing all kinds of drugs, even cocaine and morphine. Even worse I was involved in several relationships with women that were all lustful. I defiled my self many times out of wedlock. God's grace changed my life. He forgave all that and wiped it away. I have been married and have a little girl on the way. Two years ago I surrendered my life to preach the Gospel and God has been blessing. The fruit is showing itself. My questions is this: If God could forgive me and use me why can't He forgive my father and use him? I committed much worse acts than He ever has. And remember that the Bible says tha the, " gifts ans callings of God are irrevocible." God is sovereign. He new before the foundation of the world was laid that my father would sin in divorce yet He still called Him. After Peter denied the Lord three times Jesus told Him to preach at pentecost. Denying the Lord is far worse than any other sin, even adultery. You need to leyt the Holy Spirit take over your spirit because your statements are all preconceived from how you feel on the subject. Take time and really study the Word and You will be enlightened to the reality of God's grace. I pray for you, and I hope you will quit leading people into a belief of your own making.

Honibee · Nov 16, 2005

setfree said:
If God could forgive me and use me why can't He forgive my father and use him? I committed much worse acts than He ever has.

I'm sorry for the pain you had to go through in your parent's divorce, but grateful you have found your way back into the fold.

If you look back at my original posts, you will see I agreed with the poster that gave the guidelines in Timothy. I went on to say fallen pastors would best serve by being a witness of Him, rather than being in the pulpit (until of course- the original covenant is honored in repentance, or the pastor remains unmarried (and celebate) as long as the covenant spouse lives). (See www.marriagedivorce.com with questions about honoring the original covenant- they explain thoroughly.)

As stated in previous posts, the word of God is CLEAR on the remarriage issue. To deliberately disregard Jesus and Paul's teaching is ERROR. According to Matt. 19:1-12, Mark 10:11-12, Lk. 16:18, Romans 7:2-3, 1Cor. 7:10-11, and 1Cor. 7:39, anyone who remarries one other than the original spouse while they are still living, after divorce, is in adultry- not qualification for pulpit ministry. Please take the time to read the scriptures provided, it's not hard to understand. God DOES NOT disregard what HE has made one, just because the laws of men do.

setfree said:
You need to leyt the Holy Spirit take over your spirit because your statements are all preconceived from how you feel on the subject. Take time and really study the Word and You will be enlightened to the reality of God's grace. I pray for you, and I hope you will quit leading people into a belief of your own making.

Again, my statements are straight out of scripture- it's how God feels, how He felt from the beginning on the d/r issue. I praise God for His grace- that I don't have to wallow in the filth of my sin- He has given power OVER it! Those who continue in sin, mock the blood that bought their justification & SANCTIFICATION. It's a hard thing for the FLESH to accept.

wannaberichr · Nov 16, 2005

To be a deacon, bishop or pastor, the bible is clear on the rules. Even if the wife committed adultery, he can only be of one wife. Yes, he can still preach, but he is not biblically allowed to lead a flock. Nothing personal, but that is the way it is. I myself am a divorced minister. I use to be a deacon, before my divorce, and now I will not hold the position because of the scriptures.

Setfreebygrace · Nov 17, 2005

rocklife said:
Jesus says in Mark 9:11-12, even remarrying is considered adultery to God.

Maybe you are called as God's witness, but not for the pastor job. Is the reason to be a pastor for money? You want the money? Can you still be a witness of God if you wouldn't get paid? I don't get paid to be where God has me, in the sense of a career. The devil can give money away too, he tried to give Jesus all kinds of luxury.

A christian follows Jesus, keep looking to Jesus and what He wants for His church.

Sir. I Timothy 3:1-7 states that a pastor has to be sober-minded, not greedy for money, not quarrelsome, etc... Every one always focuses on th"husband of one wife"' but forgets all the rest. This verse is talking about a mans present state of character. If a man ever drank, was greedy with money ar ever got in a fight he is disqualified. See where I'm going. This verse doesn't say what you mean.

Setfreebygrace · Nov 17, 2005

When a person says they are thankful for the grace of God that they don't have to wallow in the filth of their sin, it reminds me of the Pharisee who said, looking at the publican next to him, "I am thankful that I am not sinful like this man" His pride revealed his own sin, but he could not see it. Jesus said the man who could barely look into heaven, and was humble, was the man who went away justified that day.

Legalism causes a person to not see their own sin, but only every one elses'. Staying married and not divorcing somehow becomes a "trophy" to show that you have earned something. While it is honorable that one can remain married...it is wrong to judge other believers who have divorced, confessed and now living godly lives. Again, folks. can't convince some, and won't try, but this perpetual adultery thing is ridiculous and is NOT what God's word teaches.

Setfreebygrace

Honibee · Nov 17, 2005

setfree said:
When a person says they are thankful for the grace of God that they don't have to wallow in the filth of their sin, it reminds me of the Pharisee who said, looking at the publican next to him, "I am thankful that I am not sinful like this man" His pride revealed his own sin, but he could not see it. Jesus said the man who could barely look into heaven, and was humble, was the man who went away justified that day.

Legalism causes a person to not see their own sin, but only every one elses'. Staying married and not divorcing somehow becomes a "trophy" to show that you have earned something. While it is honorable that one can remain married...it is wrong to judge other believers who have divorced, confessed and now living godly lives. Again, folks. can't convince some, and won't try, but this perpetual adultery thing is ridiculous and is NOT what God's word teaches.

Wow- incredible! Since when is being grateful that Jesus has provided a way OUT of my sin pharasaical? I honestly fear for those who harden their hearts to the plain truth of scripture. Say it all you want, that remarriage after divorce to one other than the original spouse is "ridiculous"- flesh has driven another nail in the coffin. And it will not obliterate the truth of God's word. Have to wonder if Matt. 19:9, Mark 10:11-12, Luke 16:18, Romans 7:2-3, 1Cor. 7:10-11, 1Cor. 7:39 were even MINUTELY considered...

(Please see blog entry #8)

Setfreebygrace · Nov 20, 2005

You twist what the scripture says!

Honibee said:
Wow- incredible! Since when is being grateful that Jesus has provided a way OUT of my sin pharasaical? I honestly fear for those who harden their hearts to the plain truth of scripture. Say it all you want, that remarriage after divorce to one other than the original spouse is "ridiculous"- flesh has driven another nail in the coffin. And it will not obliterate the truth of God's word. Have to wonder if Matt. 19:9, Mark 10:11-12, Luke 16:18, Romans 7:2-3, 1Cor. 7:10-11, 1Cor. 7:39 were even MINUTELY considered...

(Please see blog entry #8)

Honibee,

Matthew 19:9 and the others is clear. The actual coming together of the two is adultery, but God forgives any sin but one Blasphemy. So, are you saying that if the two have remarried they are to divorce again? No way. God forgave them of their sin, and now they are obligated to be faothful to each other. They will most likle have some difficult times, but the only sin that God doesn't forgive is blasphemy, a sin which a christian cannot even committ. The Bible says when you do the work of the Lord your fruit will be evident. THe Bible also says to make disciples of all nations baptizing them. We just started a church in our community two months ago and three people have come back to the Lord, surrendered their lives to Him again and one of them just asked to be Baptized. Wow. that is the Holy Spirit working. Oh, by the way, remember my father is a divored and remarried Pastor. So, if God hasn't forgave Him. how in the world could he be used in the way he has. God forgives and forgets the problem is people don't. By the way, the way you said that by God's grace you don't have to wallow in your own sin sounded pretty pharisaical. You condemn people who divorce and remarry, but have you considered that the sins in your own live are just the same when seen by God. God sees all sin the same.

setfreebygrace

Honibee · Nov 20, 2005

To address your statement, SFBG: ('...if the two have remarried, they are to divorce again?)

honibee said:
Ezra (chp 9-10) gives the account of the men of Israel divorcing unlawful wives- in repentance.

Not MY words, the Word of God.

Matthew 19:9 needs to be taken into consideration in light of ALL the references given. It's only SOUND biblical exegesis to take what seems like a contradiction and look at it again in light of other scripture. Mark 10:11-12, Lk 16:18, Romans 7:2-3, 1 Cor. 7:10-11, 1Cor. 7:39 state that remarriage when the original spouse lives, is adultry.

Again, Matthew is written for the Jewish culture and they understood the exception clause to refer to the betrothal period of their custom. If the bride was found not to be virgin anytime during this betrothal, the bridegroom could 'divorce' her. This is the ONLY time. The other references support this, and go on to say that it is adultry to marry another when the original spouse lives.

SFBG said:
the way you said that by God's grace you don't have to wallow in your own sin sounded pretty pharisaical. You condemn people who divorce and remarry,

Isn't it wonderful, that by God's grace, NONE of us has to wallow in sin? I will be the first to tell you I am a work in progress, and I do not condemn anyone. (Again, condemnation meaning punishment of sin- NOT MY PLACE!) I have identified- BY THE WORD OF GOD- error that has potential to bring death to many. My heart GRIEVES. . . and I PRAY by God's grace this error of divorce / remarriage will be seen for the poison that it is. I pray precious ones will acknowledge God's word and trust Him, though it costs... His grace IS sufficient. (Personal experience has taught me that.)

As for fruit, ONLY God can judge that one. Please keep in mind what Jesus taught- 'not everyone that says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but HE THAT DOES THE WILL OF THE FATHER'. What we claim to have done in His name won't make any difference, if we held on to our 'form of godliness' (denying it's power to be obedient to the One we claim to follow) to continue on in action that God calls sin.

(again, please refer to blog entry #8, & www.marriagedivorce.com)

In Him,
~H

Honibee · Nov 20, 2005

wannaberichr said:
I myself am a divorced minister. I use to be a deacon, before my divorce, and now I will not hold the position because of the scriptures.

I appreciate your decision, as I know it was a sacrifice. (I don't know if you're pastoring now...?)

Christina M · Nov 20, 2005

honibee said:
Ezra (chp 9-10) gives the account of the men of Israel divorcing unlawful wives- in repentance.

Old Testament law.

Thank GOD, we live in the New Testament and we are saved by grace!

Thank GOD, only people like you believe we are "wallowing in sin".....God sure doesn't.

Honibee · Nov 20, 2005

Christina M said:
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Old Testament law.

Thank GOD, we live in the New Testament and we are saved by grace!

Thank GOD, only people like you believe we are "wallowing in sin".....God sure doesn't.

Matthew 19:9, Mark 10:11-12, Luke 16:18, Romans 7:2-3, 1Cor. 7:39, show God's heart on the d/r issue. What do these scriptures say to you, especially Romans 7:2-3?

I know the flesh hates to hear the truth, and I'm not going to try to convince you. The truth has been shown and I commit it to the Holy Spirit, who is faithful to guide those who seek to prove their love to Jesus by their obedience, and give them grace to forsake disobedience.

God bless you all.

Christina M · Nov 20, 2005

Honibee,

Your doctrine is very degrading......very manipulative.....very condemning......and very dangerous.

Again...........what would you have those of us who have remarried (in the eyes of God) to do? Commit suicide? Would that make Honibee happy?? Divorce our wonderfu godly mates? Would that satisfy you???

If you are serious when you say you are not trying to convince us of "your version" of the Word, then why don't you stop spreading the condemnation and wounding so many?

johnd · Nov 20, 2005

Chick fight!

johnd · Nov 20, 2005

Sorry, I have a bad sense of humor...

Like what I think God was thinking right after he created Adam...

"The boy needs help..."

..so he created Eve.

johnd · Nov 20, 2005

Matthew 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery:* and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.**

* this would include (would it not?) any polygamous marriages including biblical levirite marriage (to raise up seed to a dead brother and care for his widow)

** this refers to the one put away for fornication

And there is yet another passage to be considered:

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from ALL sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.

That is, unless one considers divorce, fornication, or adultery additional unpardonable sins other than the one the Bible spells out (unbelief in Jesus: the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit who testifies to Jesus).

johnd · Nov 20, 2005

Mark 10:11-12, Lk 16:18, Romans 7:2-3, 1 Cor. 7:10-11, 1Cor. 7:39 state that remarriage when the original spouse lives, is adultry.

Ok, let's have a look.

Mark 10:11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. 12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Luke 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

These are condensed versions of Matthew 19:9.

Ibidem my last post in response.

Romans 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

This is an elaboration on Matthew 19:9 suggesting there was no fornication and she remarried. And again, 1 John 1:7-9 covers this.

1 Corinthians 7:10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: 11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

This is again under the conditions set forth in Matthew 19:9 that so long as there is no fornication. It is also what is referred to these days as tough love. It used to be referred to as biblical separation usually to snap the other spouse out of whatever sin or delusion they have been living under and as a means of last resort.

1 Corinthians 7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

I do not want to sound as if I am justifying adultery, fornication, or the like. I know these things can cut a man or woman right down to their soul... and divorce is aptly described as the tearing in two of souls previously joined as one.

If anything could be said about the New Covenant of liberty, God actually tightened the reigns on things he once made concessions for (one of them being polygamy).

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

This means one wife at a time.

And the verse also precludes that women cannot be pastor / teachers overseers of the Church (as expounded upon in 1 Timothy 2:12-14).

Honibee · Nov 21, 2005

Christina M said:
Honibee,

Your doctrine is very degrading......very manipulative.....very condemning......and very dangerous.

Again...........what would you have those of us who have remarried (in the eyes of God) to do? Commit suicide? Would that make Honibee happy?? Divorce our wonderfu godly mates? Would that satisfy you???

If you are serious when you say you are not trying to convince us of "your version" of the Word, then why don't you stop spreading the condemnation and wounding so many?

It's not MY version of the word. Again, have a look at Romans 7:2-3, 1Cor. 7:39, Lk 16:18, Mark 10:11-12. Simply put, 'who ever divorces and remarries when the spouse still lives commits adultry'.

To look into the word, know what it says, and willfully walk away unchanged is what scripture would consider dangerous. (James 1:23)

CM said:
Again...........what would you have those of us who have remarried (in the eyes of God) to do? Commit suicide?

It's not about what I would have you do. I'm not quite sure of your sincerity in asking this, Christina.

cm said:
If you are serious when you say you are not trying to convince us of "your version" of the Word, then why don't you stop spreading the condemnation and wounding so many

You misunderstood what I said here. I said it was the Holy Spirit's place to convince people of His truth, not mine. And I went on to say, anyone seriously seeking to prove their love for Him by obedience will hear the truth of what is presented clearly in His word. Again, we are called upon to kill the flesh, and walk in newness of life. The flesh naturally - hates it.

(www.marriagedivorce.com)

Divorced..and feel a calling to pastor

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