Divorce

[peacechild4]

You are married yes.. not separated.. I hope happily.. so if your marriage is happy you don't understand.. I have prayed for my husband.. 15 years or more.. and it has only gotten worse.. and now I am suffering from verbal and emotional abuse and he is out of it now just over 12 months.. I have four kids at home and I am not coping alone and still married but not married.. it has been a struggle almost all our married life.. GOD has given me peace to go forward.. I only get sad and frustrated when I think I have to be tied to him.. and that is what people like you say is GODS way..

 

[mpok1519]

That presents a real problem.

Matthew 7:24-27 (NKJV)
24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."

I'm seeing a pattern. You say in repliance to another something totally offtopic and irrelevant to the discussion at hand, and then randomly pick out a piece of scripture which still has nothing to do with what you said which ultimately had
nothing to do with the topic. This is spam. And it's against the rules.

Ducky's Principle: "(insert random irrelevant commentary)" (insert random scripture)

 

[KCKID]

You are married yes.. not separated.. I hope happily.. so if your marriage is happy you don't understand.. I have prayed for my husband.. 15 years or more.. and it has only gotten worse.. and now I am suffering from verbal and emotional abuse and he is out of it now just over 12 months.. I have four kids at home and I am not coping alone and still married but not married.. it has been a struggle almost all our married life.. GOD has given me peace to go forward.. I only get sad and frustrated when I think I have to be tied to him.. and that is what people like you say is GODS way..

I don't know who your post was directed at - Ducky I guess - but I think the overall point of this thread is to determine what the Bible has to say about divorce. And, whether or not one gets hot under the collar ...the Bible is most assuredly against divorce for anything other than infidelity. As for divorce and REMARRIAGE ...that is most definitely a no-no. If that DOES occur then the situation becomes one of ADULTERY. And, as we all know, adultery is a scriptural sin.

Now, what absolutely IRKS me about what I've been reading on this thread is that there are some who (quite rightly) justify having escaped a violent or otherwise unsuitable marriage and have since remarried and found love and stability with a new partner. I absolutely and unequivocally have no issue whatever with these folks who have done so. Good for them!

HOWEVER, some of these same people are conveniently ignoring scriptures that still condemn them as 'adulterers' REGARDLESS of their prior violent or otherwise unsuitable marriage situation. They firmly believe that these scriptures don't apply to them and that God will excuse them for divorcing and remarrying. In other words, they are playing God and ignoring certain scriptures to suit their own particular situation. And, that's fine by me since I have no issue with divorced/remarrieds. Besides which, it's none of my business.

What is NOT fine by me is when these very same people (adulterers in the eyes of God as per the Bible) conveniently ignore the scriptures that condemn them but continue to focus on scriptures that they believe condemn others. Obviously, I'm talking about homosexuality. How these people cannot see their error as well as the blatant hypocrisy behind their beliefs is beyond me. That a preacher who is remarried and is scripturally - and I EMPHASIZE 'scripturally' - committing adultery can get behind a pulpit and preach condemnation to homosexuals is tantamount to ...well, I can't use the word that I think would be appropriate.

Anyway, this thread is about what the Bible (God?) has to say about divorce and really has little to do with anyone's opinion or as to how anyone might feel about the topic. If one doesn't like Ducky's attitude - I don't much like it myself - then counter what he has to say with scripture.

 

[Gracchus]

Anyway, this thread is about what the Bible (God?) has to say about divorce and really has little to do with anyone's opinion or as to how anyone might feel about the topic. If one doesn't like Ducky's attitude - I don't much like it myself - then counter what he has to say with scripture.

Well, someone might choose to counter what he says with common sense, or human decency, or non-judgemental compassion, and leave the condemnations in the hands of God, (if God has hands).

I think it depends on whether you are honestly trying to help or whether you are just saying "Nyah, nyah! You're going to hell, but I'm better than you and I'm not!" There are some on this forum who follow the first course, and many, almost all with Christian icons, who seem to take the second.

 

[Duckybill]

You are married yes.. not separated.. I hope happily.. so if your marriage is happy you don't understand..

I was separated for years. I do know.

I have prayed for my husband.. 15 years or more.. and it has only gotten worse.. and now I am suffering from verbal and emotional abuse and he is out of it now just over 12 months.. I have four kids at home and I am not coping alone and still married but not married.. it has been a struggle almost all our married life.. GOD has given me peace to go forward.. I only get sad and frustrated when I think I have to be tied to him.. and that is what people like you say is GODS way..

God changes hearts for those who believe He will. Do you believe? Do you believe God's MANY promises? Which ones? Don't blame God. Look to yourself. Have you been misled by ministers of Satan? It happens all the time.

 

[Duckybill]

I'm seeing a pattern. You say in repliance to another something totally offtopic and irrelevant to the discussion at hand, and then randomly pick out a piece of scripture which still has nothing to do with what you said which ultimately had
nothing to do with the topic. This is spam. And it's against the rules.

Ducky's Principle: "(insert random irrelevant commentary)" (insert random scripture)

Just because you don't understand Scripture doesn't mean its "spam". You make charges without evidence.

 

[mpok1519]

Ducky; you misinterpret scripture bc you forsake historical context.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Few Christians truly understand... that God HATES divorce.

"For I hate divorce!" says the LORD, the God of Israel. "To divorce your wife is to overwhelm her with cruelty," says the LORD of Heaven's Armies. "So guard your heart; do not be unfaithful to your wife." Mal. 2:16 (NLT)

In a world where a woman is highly dependent on her husband for her survival, I could see how a divorce would "overwhelm her with cruelty".

However, in a world where women are liberated, divorce has virtually no taint of cruelty. It seems that the context for this moral rule has been lost to the sands of time.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Fenny the Fox]

In a world where a woman is highly dependent on her husband for her survival, I could see how a divorce would "overwhelm her with cruelty".

However, in a world where women are liberated, divorce has virtually no taint of cruelty. It seems that the context for this moral rule has been lost to the sands of time.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Moreover, the majority of divorces are initiated by the wife...

Divorce Statistics, Divorce Rates in US
Divorce Rates in Canada : Canada Divorce Rate
Divorce - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Gishin]

Duckybill is like the Fred Phelps of divorce.

 

[Jase]

I don't know who your post was directed at - Ducky I guess - but I think the overall point of this thread is to determine what the Bible has to say about divorce. And, whether or not one gets hot under the collar ...the Bible is most assuredly against divorce for anything other than infidelity. As for divorce and REMARRIAGE ...that is most definitely a no-no. If that DOES occur then the situation becomes one of ADULTERY. And, as we all know, adultery is a scriptural sin.

Now, what absolutely IRKS me about what I've been reading on this thread is that there are some who (quite rightly) justify having escaped a violent or otherwise unsuitable marriage and have since remarried and found love and stability with a new partner. I absolutely and unequivocally have no issue whatever with these folks who have done so. Good for them!

HOWEVER, some of these same people are conveniently ignoring scriptures that still condemn them as 'adulterers' REGARDLESS of their prior violent or otherwise unsuitable marriage situation. They firmly believe that these scriptures don't apply to them and that God will excuse them for divorcing and remarrying. In other words, they are playing God and ignoring certain scriptures to suit their own particular situation. And, that's fine by me since I have no issue with divorced/remarrieds. Besides which, it's none of my business.

What is NOT fine by me is when these very same people (adulterers in the eyes of God as per the Bible) conveniently ignore the scriptures that condemn them but continue to focus on scriptures that they believe condemn others. Obviously, I'm talking about homosexuality. How these people cannot see their error as well as the blatant hypocrisy behind their beliefs is beyond me. That a preacher who is remarried and is scripturally - and I EMPHASIZE 'scripturally' - committing adultery can get behind a pulpit and preach condemnation to homosexuals is tantamount to ...well, I can't use the word that I think would be appropriate.

Anyway, this thread is about what the Bible (God?) has to say about divorce and really has little to do with anyone's opinion or as to how anyone might feel about the topic. If one doesn't like Ducky's attitude - I don't much like it myself - then counter what he has to say with scripture.

Good point.

I honestly think sin is looked at completely wrong on this board. I see far too much legalism, and far too little logic going on here. I believe God embodies logic, which means, for something to be a sin - there should be a logical reason for it. I find Christians anthropomorhpize God far too much. As though a Supreme Being would really be offended, because humans chose to wear mixed fabrics.

While maybe not a factor in every case, I think we underestimate the important of intent when discussing sin, and I think the Bible provides precedent for the value of intent. Jesus healed on Shabbat, which is breaking the 4th Commandment - but it wasn't a sin, because his intention wasn't to disgrace God, it was to help someone. Saving a life trumps legalistic rules. Another example, when people hid the Jews in their attics during WWII, and lied to the Nazis about them being there, would God accuse them of sinning? I doubt it. Their intent was to save the Jew's life, not to harmfully deceive anyone.

Same with divorce. I think divorce and remarriage being a sin is a cultural phenomenon due to women being property and the patriarchal nature of society. Divorce can be harmful, if done willy nilly, because it can hurt people when abused. Do I think God would condemn someone because they were being beat to within an inch of their life by their husband and divorced to get away? Absolutely not. Their intent is not to cause harm, it's to escape it. It would be illogical to call trying to escape domestic abuse through divorce a "sin". Sadly, legalism and rules seem to dominate modern Christianity.

Btw, KCKID, sent you a PM but it said you aren't accepting them.

 

[flicka]

"GOD HATES...".

There really is no way for anyone to understand that or know what it means.

There is no such a thing as "GOD ORDAINED" marriages vs any other marriage we willingly enter into. We make the choices based on what we can perceive for ourselves. That's all folks..nothing magical about any of it.

Staying legally married but separate so you don't commit the "sin" of divorce is lame, and akin to trying to game the system. It's like having oral/anal sex before marriage and telling yourself you are still pure because you are a virgin. It doesn't work like that people. Once the marriage is broken down and unrepairable a legal divorce, which is a man made thing anyway, won't hurt you. Neither will getting remarried since that is also a man made thing. Do you REALLY think God is going to play these kinds of games? Do you seriously think it's a sin that will be judged in a way to cast you into hell?

Seriously, get a clue.

 

[Duckybill]

Once the marriage is broken down and unrepairable a legal divorce, which is a man made thing anyway, won't hurt you. Neither will getting remarried since that is also a man made thing. Do you REALLY think God is going to play these kinds of games? Do you seriously think it's a sin that will be judged in a way to cast you into hell?

Yes it will hurt.

Matthew 13:49-50 (NKJV)
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

And yes adultery will send people to Hell.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NKJV)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

And NO, God is not playing games. Eternity is at stake.

 

[peacechild4]

I was separated for years. I do know.

God changes hearts for those who believe He will. Do you believe? Do you believe God's MANY promises? Which ones? Don't blame God. Look to yourself. Have you been misled by ministers of Satan? It happens all the time.

Actually I have peace to leave my husband.. no condemnation here.. I believe GOD is ok with that..


1 John 3:20-21: For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

 

[JustMeSee]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that we all are sinners. It is through a belief in Jesus Christ's sacrifice as the Son of God on the cross that we are granted access to heaven.

Does getting a divorce void a Christian's entrance into heaven?

You seem to be saying that divorce is a grave sin beyond redemption.

 

[Duckybill]

Actually I have peace to leave my husband.. no condemnation here.. I believe GOD is ok with that..

What does that prove? Nothing. Many living in blatant sin have peace now. But they won't later when it counts most. Separation can be good. It's divorce that leads to adultery that leads to Hell.

 

[peacechild4]

If you bring up the divorce scripture about GOD hating divorce.. ok nothing I can say about that.. but what about this one..

If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Matthew 5:29

Do you still have both your eyes??? Have you not ever sinned by looking at something you shouldn't?? Hmm... do you follow this one too???

YOu see if you hold up the divorce one.. or not getting a divorce... you have to hold up all the rest of them too.. like this one.. so if you still have both your eyes.. and I know all of us see stuff we shouldn't at some point.. and take an extra look.. hmmm.. then I am assuming you have never looked at something you shouldn't have.. or the scriptures go on to say.. about cutting off the right hand etc..

The scriptures are there to guide us to JESUS who was perfect and our salvation.. we would all be cast into hell.. all of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of GOD..

James 2:10 it says 10And the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as the person who has broken all of God's laws.

Wow.. you commit only one sin.. and guilty of them all.. that is harsh isn't it..

The Seventh Commandment; "You shall not commit adultery." Who of us can say that we are pure of heart? Jesus warned, "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Matthew 5:27-28



What about this one.. even if man looks on a woman to lust after her.. has committed adultery.. how many men... christian men too.. have looked at a woman wrongly.. and there you have it.. that is adultery too..


Come on brother.. we cannot... but he can... HE did..



” “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes” (Rom. 10:4).

 

[JustMeSee]

What does that prove? Nothing. Many living in blatant sin have peace now. But they won't later when it counts most. Separation can be good. It's divorce that leads to adultery that leads to Hell.

So all Christian adulterers are going to hell? Even those who seek forgiveness?

 

[Duckybill]

If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Matthew 5:29

Do you still have both your eyes??? Have you not ever sinned by looking at something you shouldn't?? Hmm... do you follow this one too???

Jesus didn't mean that removing body parts would save us. He was telling us how awful Hell is.

YOu see if you hold up the divorce one.. or not getting a divorce... you have to hold up all the rest of them too.. like this one.. so if you still have both your eyes.. and I know all of us see stuff we shouldn't at some point.. and take an extra look.. hmmm.. then I am assuming you have never looked at something you shouldn't have.. or the scriptures go on to say.. about cutting off the right hand etc..

The point of Jesus is that cutting off body parts won't save us because sin can also be in the heart. Everyone has sinned and forgiveness is available. But it is unwise to push God by sinning willfully. It can lead to MUCH grief even if one doesn't go to Hell.

The scriptures are there to guide us to JESUS who was perfect and our salvation.. we would all be cast into hell.. all of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of GOD..

James 2:10 it says 10And the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as the person who has broken all of God's laws.

Wow.. you commit only one sin.. and guilty of them all.. that is harsh isn't it..

The Seventh Commandment; "You shall not commit adultery." Who of us can say that we are pure of heart? Jesus warned, "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Matthew 5:27-28

What about this one.. even if man looks on a woman to lust after her.. has committed adultery.. how many men... christian men too.. have looked at a woman wrongly.. and there you have it.. that is adultery too..

Come on brother.. we cannot... but he can... HE did..

” “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes” (Rom. 10:4).

I'm not talking about the Law of Moses. Christians have a New Covenant. We are not under the Law of Moses. The New Covenant warning is perfectly clear. Adulterers "will not inherit the Kingdom of God"!

 

[Duckybill]

So all Christian adulterers are going to hell? Even those who seek forgiveness?

I have never said that. Forgiveness is available. But many choose to defend their adultery rather than confess their sin. Christians who sin do not lose their salvation unless they push God pretty far. For the truly repentant forgiveness is available. But for those who tell others it's ok to divorce and remarry, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes on Judgment Day.