Divorce

[OphidiaPhile]

I'm sorry about offending you about what I said about animals.

You did not offend me but in my opinion animals often get far less respect for caring and intelligence than they deserve.

But, you do agree then that it is a belief, for you said "what another species believes about their relationship."

I believe that marriage is a fluid concept and is only relevant in each case as to what marriage means to the people directly involved in each marriage.

 

[LJSGM]

You did not offend me but in my opinion animals often get far less respect for caring and intelligence than they deserve.

I believe that marriage is a fluid concept and is only relevant in each case as to what marriage means to the people directly involved in each marriage.

exactly, marriage is a set of beliefs shaped by our particular religion or belief system.

I would group it with religious beliefs.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

exactly, marriage is a belief system shaped by our particular religion or belief system.

I would group it with religious beliefs.

I am atheist, my gf is atheist, marriage existed before religion and marriage exists all over the world and many of those are not very religious at all. This all adds up to farore than a mere relgious concept.

 

[LJSGM]

I am atheist, my gf is atheist, marriage existed before religion and marriage exists all over the world and many of those are not very religious at all. This all adds up to farore than a mere relgious concept.

atheism is a belief system.

 

[Open]

Other than believing there is no God, there is no creed for athiests. hence I would not call it a system.

 

[LJSGM]

Other than believing there is no God, there is no creed for athiests. hence I would not call it a system.

technicalities....

 

[True_Blue]

This is complete nonsense. Marriage existed before Christianity became the official religion of the Roman empire. It exists in non-Christian cultures. It is Christians who tried to change the definition of marriage by making it a religious rite.

You're setting up a straw man and tearing it down. Informed people know Christianity started 33 AD. As the Bible says, marriage has been around since the very beginning. When God created Eve, he created marriage. There was no government then, just a couple of people and God. God handed down marriage from himself to every human being, without the intermediary of government. If you attribute the story of Adam and Eve to fanciful Jewish mythology, then marriage started 1500 BC. If you can find a government intervention in marriage before 1500 BC, then you'd have a point.

 

[CCGirl]

You're setting up a straw man and tearing it down. Informed people know Christianity started 33 AD. As the Bible says, marriage has been around since the very beginning. When God created Eve, he created marriage. There was no government then, just a couple of people and God. God handed down marriage from himself to every human being, without the intermediary of government. If you attribute the story of Adam and Eve to fanciful Jewish mythology, then marriage started 1500 BC. If you can find a government intervention in marriage before 1500 BC, then you'd have a point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions

Adam and Eve is a myth.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

You're setting up a straw man and tearing it down. Informed people know Christianity started 33 AD. As the Bible says, marriage has been around since the very beginning. When God created Eve, he created marriage. There was no government then, just a couple of people and God. God handed down marriage from himself to every human being, without the intermediary of government. If you attribute the story of Adam and Eve to fanciful Jewish mythology, then marriage started 1500 BC. If you can find a government intervention in marriage before 1500 BC, then you'd have a point.

We also have to conclude that the Jewish calander was different than the one today and age was considered different. Many consider the first men(Adam and Eve) to have existed around 5000 BC.

 

[b&wpac4]

We also have to conclude that the Jewish calander was different than the one today and age was considered different. Many consider the firts men(Adam and Eve) to have existed around 5000 BC.

Who is this "We" you allude to?

 

[CreedIsChrist]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions

Adam and Eve is a myth.

No offense, but I don't think that link really helps you much, considering it says :

The first recorded marriage between two men occurred during the reign of the Emperor Nero, who is reported to have married two other men on different occasions.[7] However, both of them were eunuchs and much can be read into his mental state by the fact that he made them up to look like Poppaea, his deceased wife


Nero existed during the time when the Apostle John, Paul, and Peter were alive. In fact he was the murderer of these apostles(which the exception of John).

I kinda find it ironic that the first recorded gay marriage happens to be on a man who was one of Christianitys WORST persecutors of all and who killed many of Christ's actual apostles and thousands of men, women and christian children too; fed to the wolves and set ablaze by fire to use as lamps. And was considered one of the worst and most brutal leaders in all of worlds history. It kinda shows us the general hatred of christians by the homosexual community, considering pagan rome was very open to homosexuality, yet extremely terrible to the persecution of Christians. And yet can see today that they're general hatred and disdain for christianity still lives to this day all the way from the times of Nero.

Wiki continues

Emperors who were universally praised and lauded by the Romans, such as Hadrian and Trajan openly had male lovers, although it is not recorded whether or not they ever married their lovers


And what a coincidence that these 2 emperors also became very well known christian persecutors and murderers. As we read in the Martyrdom of Polycarp, Igantius and Justin Martyr. All killed by these emperors and they're succesors

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_early_Christians_in_the_Roman_Empire

Who is this "We" you allude to?

Its a figure of speech?

 

[soul_biscuit]

Its a figure of speech?

A figure of speech meaning what?

 

[b&wpac4]

Its a figure of speech?

So by we you mean you like the royal we or you as part of some other group?

 

[JCFantasy23]

Gaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!! Thread, derailed again.

What of the scriptural basis for adulterers being allowed continue worship in churches??? Is it too much to ask?
If one remains married to a second or subsequent spouse whislt the firt is alive one commits adultery. Surely to remain married to a second spouse and remain in fellowship with other believers is not truly repenting?
If, not, what is the biblical basis for continuing to sin willfully as opposed to the sin followed by truly repent cycle.

Seriously anyone got a scriptural angle on this one?

IMO it is not the churches place to kick out members who have remarried. No church member is free from sin. Church was for Christians to worship together and learn of God, not to become such an elite group that picks and chooses at random. We all throw stones but this is a sin we should work on avoiding.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Just as a reminder, Jesus fulfilled the law. He didn't come to abolish it, but fulfilled it. The truth about the Jewish history,Jesus came and stated that wasn't what he intended. They also distorted the interpretation to do as they wanted. I don't remember the exact historical interpretation, but the fact is we know what is the right thing to do. Divorce is a form of violence. Towards women and children. The effect on children in divorce as Jesus stated will be about 5 generations!

Back then it was definately so. But today women are able to work and provide for themselves, and society does not expel divorced women and children without a marriage like days of past. This kind of tends to be more cultural. Children do suffer from divorce, which is a sad thing, and it should be very hard to divorce when one has children....but having two parents who constantly fight, beat each other, or cheat on each other may be more harmful for the child than splitting up in the long run.

 

[CCGirl]

No offense, but I don't think that link really help you much, considering it says :





Its a figure of speech?

Lets just toss out the bible, okay? Stick to reality.

You conveniently left out the rest of the world:

Same-gender romantic love or sexual desire has been recorded since ancient times in the entirety of the continent of Asia, right from the Middle East to South Asia to East Asia. Such desire often took the form of same-sex unions, usually between men, and often included some difference in age. There is far less information available on relationships among women in ancient times.

In China, in the southern province of Fujian where female love was especially cultivated, females would bind themseleves in contracts to younger females in elaborate ceremonies.[1] In Japan , Shudo (衆道 shud&#333, the Japanese tradition of age-structured homosexuality was prevalent in samurai society from the medieval period until the end of the 19th century. Shudo, in its pedagogic, martial, and aristocratic aspects, is closely analogous to the ancient Greek tradition of pederasty (paiderastia).

The practice of same-sex love in antiquity often took the form of formal pairings of men with youths, which had many of the attributes of marriage but were limited in duration. (It is important to note, however, that marriages in Ancient Greece between men and women were also age structured, with men in their 30's commonly taking wives in their early teens.) There were also marriage between men, at least among the Romans, as this practice was outlawed in 342 AD by the Christian emperors

In spite of this, gay unions are believed to have continued in some areas until the 12th century.[2][3][4]
In Hellenic Greece, the pederastic relationships between Greek men (erastes) and youths (eromenos) who had come of age were, it has been argued, analogous to marriage in several aspects but not recognisd as marriage. The age of the youth was similar to the age at which women married (the mid-teens, though in some city states, as young as age seven), and the relationship could only be undertaken with the consent of the father. This consent, just as in the case of a daughter's marriage, was contingent on the suitor's social standing. The relationship, just like a marriage, consisted of very specific social and religious responsibilities and also had a sexual component.

Nevertheless, homosexual relationships between men of the same age were not unheard of in Ancient Greece. The most famous example is that of Achilles and Patroclus. In contrast to the Greeks, evidence for homosexual relationships between men of the same age exists for the Romans. These sources are diverse and include such things as the Roman novel Satyricon, graffiti and paintings found at Pompeii as well as inscriptions left on tombs and papyri found in Egypt.

Nevertheless, Historian John Boswell argued that Adelphopoiesis, or brother-making, represented an early form of religious same-sex marriage in the Orthodox church, and Alan Bray saw the rite of Ordo ad fratres faciendum ("Order for the making of brothers") as serving the same purpose in the medieval Roman Catholic Church.

\

Same-sex marriage has been documented in many societies that were not subject to Christian influence. In North America, among the Native Americans societies, it has taken the form of Two-Spirit-type relationships, in which some male members of the tribe, from an early age, heed a calling to take on female gender with all its responsibilities. They are prized as wives by the other men in the tribe, who enter into formal marriages with these Two-Spirit men. They are also respected as being especially powerful shamans.

In Africa, among the Azande of the Congo, men would take youths for whom they had to pay a bride-price to the father. These homosexual relationships likewise were understood to be of a temporary nature. In Ancient Egypt, Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum are thought to be the first male couple in history. They shared the title of Overseer of the Manicurists in the Palace of King Niussere during the Fifth dynasty of Egyptian pharaohs, and are listed as "royal confidantes" in their joint tomb

 

[rppearso]

If you focus a magnifying glass on any one scripture it can very easily be taken way out of context, the bible is common sense and when read in its entirety is not unreasonable. Cults are formed when you choose to focus on particular scriptures instead of taking the bible as a whole.

 

[Andreusz]

You're setting up a straw man and tearing it down. Informed people know Christianity started 33 AD. As the Bible says, marriage has been around since the very beginning. When God created Eve, he created marriage. There was no government then, just a couple of people and God. God handed down marriage from himself to every human being, without the intermediary of government. If you attribute the story of Adam and Eve to fanciful Jewish mythology, then marriage started 1500 BC. If you can find a government intervention in marriage before 1500 BC, then you'd have a point.

I don't really understand what you've written here ... the logic escapes me. But I'm not talking about Hebrew mythology: I'm talking about reality. There are, and have always been, several forms of non-Christian marriage in the world. Christians do not have a monopoly on marriage. By claiming they do, they are changing the definition of marriage.

 

[Andreusz]

Many consider the first men(Adam and Eve) to have existed around 5000 BC.

And all of them are wrong.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

Lets just toss out the bible, okay? Stick to reality.

You conveniently left out the rest of the world:

All you listed was same sex attraction in the rest of the wiki history. Nothing about marriage however. The only time it lists marriage was when emperor Nero was brought up as the first recorded gay marriage. That evidence does not help your cause..

Nevertheless, Historian John Boswell argued that Adelphopoiesis, or brother-making, represented an early form of religious same-sex marriage in the Orthodox church, and Alan Bray saw the rite of Ordo ad fratres faciendum ("Order for the making of brothers") as serving the same purpose in the medieval Roman Catholic Church.

lol.. John Boswell is about as reliable as a toothpick and none of his teachings are in union with any Catholic or Orthodox dogma or teaching.

If you study the greek you will see Adelphopoiesis means fraternization and has no sexual conotation. And I somehow think the Greek Orthodox know they're church better than some pro-gay "historian"

http://syntheosis.org/Synod_Greece_1982.htm