Divorce

[Polycarp_fan]

So God backs down sometimes on his commandments if we are stubborn enough?

That is absoultely correct.

How many times did God threaten to wipe out Israel?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

In my opinion if someone has already left there other half and finds some one who is better and treats them better and wants to get married and promise never to go back him or her old self again then go ahead. And if they ask god for forgiveness and what they have done then I say go head.

I'm glad you phrased that as your opinion.

I say let then get a civil union.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

it was written because of the hardness of the Jews hearts as Christ tells us. But as Jesus said "from the begining it was not so".

And YOU,

get a gold star on your homework.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean here. Isn't the Christian position that the Bible is the word of God? Are you suggesting that the Old Testament is no longer the word of God, but a fraud or forgery?

The Bible is a recording of a relationship between God and His people.

Do the math.

 

[CCGirl]

An annulment is a decision that the first marriage was never valid in the first place. Not anyone can just get an annulment. Chances are if you have kids and were married validly an annulment is not possible(except in cases if you were coerced into marrying in the first place) If the first marriage if valid then you cannot get an annulment. One of the big reasons that started the reformation during the time when King Herny VIII couldn't get his annulment because his marriage to Catherine was valid.

Bull. My kids go to a Catholic school. There were 2 teachers there, male and female, who were both married to other people. The woman had 2 children, married about 15 years, the man had one child, married about 5 years. They started an affair, they each left their respective spouses, and were divorced. They then married each other, in the Church, because they both got annulments. There was no abuse, coercion, etc. They both had to pay money for said annulment.

\it does happen.

The male is now the principal of said school, and she still teachs there.



Second scenario:

I was married to an extremely abusive man, had 4 children and I left him after 24 years. We were married in the church. I got a divorce from him, and shortly after, he committed suicide. According to the priest here, I am now a widow. Even though I was first divorced. Go figure.

 

[xXSinnerXx]

I agree that divorced women should never remarry. If they do marry they should be removed from the church.

WHOAH!HIT THE BRAKES WHAT ARE SUGGESTING?
I agree it is not right.
But church is for the sinners NOT the saints.
To cast out some one from your church for any reason other than causing chaos and what not is just wrong.
That is saying that person is not good enough to enter the house of Lord.
You HAVE to keep in mind you are NOT BETTER THAN THEM!
Homosexuals,Killers,Rapists and drug dealers if they were to show up to your church trying to come in contact with the lord and know jesus Would you not allow them in and show them love?Would JESUS show them love?
YES!YES he would AND he would forgive them.
Christian means Christ like although we can never achieve his greatness we should strive to treat people how Jesus would.

 

[Open]

Sorry for delay in replying. V V Busy. Hope you see this one method man...



Originally Posted by Open
My understanding of scripture:
Divorve = Adultery
Adultery = Sin
Divorce = Sin

You bring up a good point regarding a second divorce. A sin.
But then so is adultery.

So we seem to have a situation here where you choose between a 2nd divorce (a once off) that would allow you not to live as an adulterer or avoiding divorce but remaining in a state of adultery.
But where is yur Biblical support for this "state" of adultry?

Ah, but where is the basis for allowing unrepentant sinners to remain in favour in a church?Contrary to Paul’s teachings….
The basis for my state of adultery is common logic. You cannot be forgiven for a sin if you do not repent. Repentance implies some act of contrition or remedy.

Alternatively an annullment of the seond marriage (assuming the first was legit). It has been argued that a second marriage is not recognised by some Christian churches as the first is still seen to be the one and only.
It would seem to me that perhaps divorce or an annulment of the second marriage (in the church) would be the lesser of the two evils here.
But that would be Man talking. I will admit that there are some Churches hold the stance that any remarriage would be a "state" of being. So is greed, apathy and judgementalism. I would bet these are present in most of these same Churches, yet not held to the same standard.
The difference being that Christians although frail and sinful tend to have an attitude of contrition and repentance for such sins. Is not this is part of the Christian character?
However, to continue to willfully sin and be unrepentant about a situation/sin one is aware of is manifestly different. Hence we have Paul’s instruction in the NT regarding ostracizing such individuals. Indeed here we have women/men living with another person who is not their spouse and unrepentantly doing so……
Incidentally you say ‘that would be man talking’. I have merely quoted Chris’ts words. I might add that even what you say (unless you can back it up biblically) is also ‘man talking…..



As for Genises Adam gets himself a wife. Good stuff, but I do not see the link between what we are talking about and same......You might want to spell this one out..

Sin is Sin. For any Church to start labling one worse that the other has ignore the Bible's totality about Sin. It is about self-justifiaction and ignores Grace.

Agree that one sin is as another re damnation etc. I assume you say the labeling is about self justification. Perhaps so, but I have not labeled one sin worse than another here. I am addressing the issue of unrepentant sinners…….

 

[sk8Joyful]

Originally Posted by JustMeSee

Abused women are free to leave/divorce their husbands. The point of the matter is that it is a sin to remarry.
​

Jesus said we must give an account of what we did and why.

Let Him be the Judge that He is.

Keep your Church free and clear of celebrating sin and see how well you all do on Judgment Day. I applaud your conservative values and Gospel truth. But, one word of caution, don't judge a repentant person.

Until of course their 491st divorce.

The (justmesee) attitudes is why so many Christians either de-convert, or leave/abandon "church" altogether; and
GOD/Jesus Christ weeps...

 

[packersfan]

to often many enter into marriage before christ is in there life. behaviour from a spouse that is not fitting gods plan for us, well is dangerous. i spoke to my wife over and over, trying every means i had to bring her to god. counseling, prayer, my pastor, the womens group at my church, nothing worked. i still pray for her every day. she refuses to believe in god. when my wife and i met, i was in a different place than i am now. when i excepted god and his works back into my life i asked god to let me be an example to my wife. it only evoked anger. i gave my marriage years. ten to be exact. finaly even i could see that i had to walk away. at some point i had to save myself or both of us were going to hate each other and i didn't want to hate her. hate is such an ugly word and i don't like to use it, but it is the only word strong enough. it became very hard for me to pray for her and mean what i was praying. that being said, i ask should i be alone for the rest of my life on earth. i am capable for love now. love that i couldn't concieve till i excepted christ as my saviour. it would be a blessing if the lord sees fit to put another person to love and spend my remaining days on earth with.... judge not lest we be judged.

 

[sk8Joyful]

to often many enter into marriage before christ is in there life. behaviour from a spouse that is not fitting gods plan for us, well is dangerous. i spoke to my wife over and over, trying every means i had to bring her to god. counseling, prayer, my pastor, the womens group at my church, nothing worked. i still pray for her every day. she refuses to believe in god. when my wife and i met, i was in a different place than i am now.
when i excepted god and his works back into my life i asked god to let me be an example to my wife. it only evoked anger. i gave my marriage years. ten to be exact. finaly even i could see that i had to walk away.
at some point i had to save myself or both of us were going to hate each other and i didn't want to hate her. hate is such an ugly word and i don't like to use it, but it is the only word strong enough. it became very hard for me to pray for her and mean what i was praying.
that being said, i ask should i be alone for the rest of my life on earth. i am capable for love now. love that i couldn't concieve till i excepted christ as my saviour. it would be a blessing if the lord sees fit to put another person to love and spend my remaining days on earth with.... judge not lest we be judged.

Some people (instead 1, or 5, or 10) take 11 yrs., or a lifetime to convert-to-Christ. Does GOD hate such people?, for this??

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

So I guess if a non-Christian is divorced and later tries to become a Cristian, he is to be turned away?

 

[Open]

Hi peckersfan/Rudolph,

What I am trying to discuss here is what appears to be the very unyielding scripture which appears to place divorced and remarried Christians in a very uncomfortable position. Yes I personally think it very sad that marriages break down for many and varied reasons, and find it difficut that in such circumstances people should be barred from ever experiencing yhe experience of marriage ever again.
But there is an apparent contradiction between mercy/grace and the words of Christ as would appear to apply in this instance & on this issue.
The point of this thread is not to point fingers but rather see whether or not current Christian values/practice can be reconciled with the scripture that most Christians believe to be the infallible word of God.
The interpretation I have been getting at is harsh. But the words of Christ seem to be unyielding in this matter. Hence my request for a scriptural/theological interpretation of scripture/Christs words that can back up one or other position without contradicting itself.
As for your point Rudolph, it would appear that the divorce pre conversion which is not the issue but rather the issue of remarriage/second and subsequent spouses whilst a Christian.
The whole point of the thread is that if you have another angle that can permit remarriage I'd love to discuss it and the biblical basis for same.

 

[mpok1519]

listen, if your wife threatens your life, or you threaten hers, and your marriage was finished from the beginning (we pick our mates, not God), divorce is perfectly ok.
sure, according to the Bible, no, but, remember, if the Bible told you to jump off a bridge, you wouldnt, right?

If the bible told you to eat poisonous food, you wouldnt. So why would you stick around in a poisonous relationship?

we must remember, the Bible evolves, much like human society. NOTHING in life is stattic. NOTHING stays the same, ever.

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

Originally Posted by Rudolph Hucker

So where does this bit fit?
​

Deuteronomy 24
1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
​

I posed the question a second time - and as none of the "no-divorce" crwod has yet to answer, pose the same question: where does this bit fit?







(Perhaps she wore clothes of two different cloths: is that an "uncleaness" worthy of divorce?)

 

[b&wpac4]

Originally Posted by Rudolph Hucker

So where does this bit fit?
​

Deuteronomy 24
1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
​

I posed the question a second time - and as none of the "no-divorce" crwod has yet to answer, pose the same question: where does this bit fit?







(Perhaps she wore clothes of two different cloths: is that an "uncleaness" worthy of divorce?)

It was answered that in the New Testament, Jesus said that the Jews were given that because they were stubborn. I don't get it, honestly.

 

[LouTheWicked]

I agree that divorced women should never remarry. If they do marry they should be removed from the church.

This is the way I see it:

Matthew 19:9 (King James Version)
9And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Oh dear, and here I was thinking that first post was satire.

 

[Open]

If you read the thread from the beginning, you will see that what I have been looking for is an interpretation of scripture as it is written.
What I am looking for is the biblical basis for permitting remarriage after divorce. - There appears to be a contradiction between Christs words as reported in the NT and current church practice.

 

[b&wpac4]

If you read the thread from the beginning, you will see that what I have been looking for is an interpretation of scripture as it is written.
What I am looking for is the biblical basis for permitting remarriage after divorce. - There appears to be a contradiction between Christs words as reported in the NT and current church practice.

and the explanation that "Jews are stubborn" is just silly. To believe that God would back down because of the stubbornness of humans is insane. I mean, does that mean if we get stubborn enough, the whole Jesus/Hell thing will be wiped away? I doubt I'll get many Christians to go along with me on that.

 

[allhart]

Life with blood relatives and about your relationship? You can't divorce your parents. They will always be your parent etc. God intended marriage for a man and a women, for them to become one; therefore, you can't divorce your spouse, so when we pick out your partner in the journey of marriage. It better be self enduring love. For loving your spouse isn't always going to feel good. Loving sometimes is just being in their lives, knowing they will always be there. To death do us part, through sickness and health, through the good time and bad. The covenant is made between you , your spouse and God; in your vowels/ rings. For real! God gave us one out "adultery", but he still asks us to work towards forgiveness "meaning try to reconcile our difference". Most people use divorce as black mail. In trying to rob their spouse of a healthy arguments. In trying to control or keep the upper hand. People get married thinking if they don't like how it's going or the direction its going. They will just file for divorce. The state of mind and heart isn't in it from the start. There is no accountability. Mostly I think people are not real in how the feel. Honest with themselves nor their spouse. I share everything with my wife. I keep my closet cleaned out.

 

[b&wpac4]

Life with blood relatives and about your relationship? You can't divorce your parents. They will always be your parent etc. God intended marriage for a man and a women, for them to become one; therefore, you can't divorce your spouse, so when we pick out your partner in the journey of marriage. It better be self enduring love. For loving your spouse isn't always going to feel good. Loving sometimes is just being in their lives, knowing they will always be there. To death do us part, through sickness and health, through the good time and bad. The covenant is made between you , your spouse and God; in your vowels/ rings. For real! God gave us one out "adultery", but he still asks us to work towards forgiveness "meaning try to reconcile our difference". Most people use divorce as black mail. In trying to rob their spouse of a healthy arguments. In trying to control or keep the upper hand. People get married thinking if they don't like how it's going or the direction its going. They will just file for divorce. The state of mind and heart isn't in it from the start. There is no accountability.

That doesn't answer why in Deut. it basically says a man can divorce a woman he finds displeasing.