Divorce, simply put

[Bible2]

HAPMinistries said:

Adultery, incest, and adultery [should be idolatry?]. The word is not restricted to having one meaning at all times, but has all 3 meanings at all times.

Note that it hasn't been said that porneia is restricted to having one meaning at all times. But neither is it restricted to having all three meanings at all times, for it can be used sometimes to refer only to pre-marital sex. For example, someone could say "She committed porneia before she got married, but she hasn't committed adultery". In the same way, in Matthew 19:9, porneia ("fornication") is used in the sense of pre-marital sex only, as distinguished from Matthew 19:9's separate reference to moichao ("adultery"). See also Matthew 15:19, Matthew 5:32, Mark 7:21, 1 Corinthians 6:9, and Galatians 5:19, where porneia ("fornication") is used in a way which distinguishes it from moichao ("adultery").

If God allowed men or women to divorce for adultery, this would give married people the incentive to commit adultery if they wanted to marry someone else. For they could think: "I can't stand this marriage, but I would love to marry that other person. All I have to do is commit adultery with that other person in a way that my spouse finds out and divorces me, and then I can marry that other person and, voila, it's no longer adultery!" Such a mistaken, awful idea can only lead to more adultery and more broken marriages.

HAPMinistries said:

You never replied to my posts, just chose verses and made comments on the verses.

What point hasn't been addressed by what has been said regarding the verses referenced?

HAPMinistries said:

You are making claims like this:
Deu 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
Deu 24:2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.

You say this is OT, therefore it does not count, as if it is not God's word.

Note that something can be God's Word but no longer be in effect. The now-abolished Old Covenant rules (Ephesians 2:15, Hebrews 7:18-19, Colossians 2:14) permitted a divorced woman to marry someone else (Deuteronomy 24:2), but if her second marriage ended, the Old Covenant rules forbade her to remarry her first husband (Deuteronomy 24:4). The New Covenant rules turn this on its head: now a divorced woman can't marry anyone else (Mark 10:12, Luke 16:18b), but she can remarry her first husband (1 Corinthians 7:11).

HAPMinistries said:

Yet Grace is to set us free from the law,...

Grace sets Christians free from the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 6:14b, John 1:17), not from the New Covenant law of Jesus Christ (Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, Jeremiah 31:31-34, Matthew 26:28), the commandments of which (John 14:15) are those he gave, for example, in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19-7:29) and in the writings of Paul the apostle (1 Corinthians 14:37, 1 Thessalonians 4:2).

For while Christians are initially saved by grace by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:1-5), and don't have to obey the Old Covenant Mosaic law in order to obtain ultimate salvation (Galatians 2:16), they do have to obey the New Covenant law of Jesus Christ in order to obtain ultimate salvation (Revelation 22:14, Hebrews 5:9, Romans 2:6-8).

It's by performing Jesus Christ's New Covenant commandments (John 14:15, 1 Thessalonians 4:2, 1 Corinthians 14:37) that Christians can be sure that they're truly loving him (John 14:23-24, 1 John 5:3) and that they're remaining in his love (John 15:10, John 14:23, Jude 1:21). Christians must fear ultimately losing their salvation, ultimately being cut off the same as unbelievers, if they don't continue in his goodness (Romans 11:20-22, Luke 12:45-46).

HAPMinistries said:

...not make a stricter law.

The New Covenant law of Jesus Christ is stricter than the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Matthew 5:20-48), insofar as the Old Covenant permitted divorce and remarriage (Matthew 5:31, Deuteronomy 24:2), but the New Covenant forbids it (Mark 10:11-12, Luke 16:18), except for a single, pre-marital sex exception granted only to husbands (Matthew 19:9).

Also, the Old Covenant permitted taking an eye for an eye (Matthew 5:38, Deuteronomy 19:21), but the New Covenant requires turning the other cheek (Matthew 5:39). Also, the Old Covenant permitted hatred for one's enemies (Matthew 5:44b, cf. Deuteronomy 23:6), but the New Covenant requires love for one's enemies (Matthew 5:44).

Also, while the Old Covenant forbade murder (Matthew 5:21, Exodus 20:13), the New Covenant forbids even calling someone names (Matthew 5:21-22). Also, while the Old Covenant forbade adultery (Matthew 5:27, Exodus 20:14), the New Covenant forbids even looking at another woman with lust (Matthew 5:28).

So in obeying the New Covenant, Christians "far exceed in righteousness" those who try to keep the abolished letter of the Old Covenant (Matthew 5:20-48, Ephesians 2:15, Hebrews 7:18-19, Colossians 2:14).

HAPMinistries said:

The scripture says:
1Co 7:10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
1Co 7:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband:

She is called unmarried. Unmarried is unmarried.
ἄγαμος
agamos
ag'-am-os
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1062; unmarried: - unmarried.
Unmarried

If a woman divorces her husband she can be said to be "unmarried" (1 Corinthians 7:11) legally. But because she's still married in God's eyes, her only choices are to remain unmarried legally or to remarry her husband legally (1 Corinthians 7:11), for if she enters into a second marriage legally with some other man, both she and her second husband will be committing adultery in God's eyes (Mark 10:12, Luke 16:18b).

An analogy of how it's possible for a woman to be divorced/unmarried legally, yet still be married to her husband in God's eyes, is how a daughter can be given up for adoption legally by her father, yet still be the daughter of her father biologically. For breaking the legal connection between a father and daughter doesn't break the biological connection between them. Similarly, breaking the legal connection between a husband and wife doesn't break the biological connection that God has made between them (Mark 10:8-12).

HAPMinistries said:

1Co 7:8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
1Co 7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

The language is plain and easily understood.

1 Corinthians 7:8-9 doesn't include a divorced woman whose husband is still alive, because other verses make clear that her choices don't include entering into a second marriage (1 Corinthians 7:11, Mark 10:12, Luke 16:18b).

HAPMinistries said:

1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

1 Corinthians 7:15 means that a believing spouse isn't under any bondage of having to keep together a marriage to an unbeliever when the unbeliever is absolutely determined to get a divorce. But 1 Corinthians 7:15 doesn't mean that a believing wife, after being divorced by an unbelieving husband, can then marry someone else, because if a man marries a divorced woman he's committing adultery (Luke 16:18b).

HAPMinistries said:

Again, fornication is the problem, because fornication is the 'only' way a man or a woman can legally be divorced and remarry. Stop fornication, and you stop all legal divorce.

How? People get legally divorced for other reasons than sex.

It's legally divorcing and then legally marrying someone else that's the problem in Mark 10:11-12 and Luke 16:18.

The exception for fornication as distinguished from adultery in Matthew 19:9 permits a husband to divorce his wife for pre-marital sex and marry another woman without his committing adultery. But this applies only to cases where a husband doesn't discover until after he's married that his newlywed wife isn't a virgin (cf. Deuteronomy 22:14, Matthew 1:19). There's no such pre-marital sex exception granted to a wife. If a wife divorces her husband for any reason and marries another man she's committing adultery (Mark 10:12). Also, there's no pre-marital sex exception granted to a man who marries a divorced woman. If a man marries a woman divorced for any reason he's committing adultery (Luke 16:18b).

This is because she's still married in God's eyes to her husband. But this doesn't prevent her husband, after divorcing her for not being a virgin, to marry another woman who is a virgin. But then in God's eyes he'll be married to two women at the same time, which while no scripture requires is a sin in itself, because it's not the best situation it disqualifies him from taking any leadership positions in the church (1 Timothy 3:2,12), based on the basic idea of 1 Timothy 3:5.

 

[mikesayen]

For those who want to understand the "law of the husband" from Rom. 7:2 and 1 Cor. 7:39...

“[FONT=Rockwell, serif]Under-man, woman”[/FONT]
[FONT=Rockwell, serif]Rom. 7:2 this sentence says in Greek, “The for (for the) under-man (husband under) woman to the living man (husband), having been (has been) bound (of or by) law.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]This sentence could better be translated: “For the woman who is under (Gen. 3:16) her husband has been bound of law to the living husband.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]Paul says “under-[/FONT][FONT=Rockwell, serif]husband[/FONT][FONT=Rockwell, serif]” woman “to” the “living (“as long as lives&#8221 [/FONT][FONT=Rockwell, serif]husband[/FONT][FONT=Rockwell, serif]” she is bound Rom. 7:2. [/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]We can see Paul was making the point that upon becoming married under her husband (having dominion over) she is bound due to a Law in Scripture which prevents her from marrying “another.” [/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]The Jews were trying to submit under the Law of Moses and Christ at the same time (Rom. 2:23).[/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]She is being “called” (Greek Future) an “adulteress” if she were to marry again Rom. 7:3a. Then according to Rom. 7:3a it uses the Greek words “living the man” in the Genitive or as we may say “possessive.” [/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]Paul uses a known subject of the husband/wife (physical) to explain a deeper truth (spiritual). [/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]By Paul stating in Rom. 7:1, the principle of law, Paul states anytime someone is “under” something and has “dominion” (lords-over), it is bound to it for life. At one point the woman was under her father (Num. 30:2-16) but now she is under her husband upon marriage (Gen. 3:16).[/FONT]


“[FONT=Rockwell, serif]Under man” was to express her general or specific position of the man (to establish the “lords over” rule in Rom. 7:1b). This was taken similar to Paul’s concept when he said sin “lords over” (Rom. 6:14) a man while “under law.” As “under law” and “under grace” is being used in Rom. 6:15 so we can understand Paul using the term “under-man.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]The principle of under-man is also shown in the first part of the Greek word “([/FONT][FONT=Rockwell, serif]under-[/FONT][FONT=Rockwell, serif]) submission ([/FONT][FONT=Rockwell, serif]appointed, set[/FONT][FONT=Rockwell, serif])” Eph. 5:23-25 and Col. 3:18 showing the premise of the “head” because of his authority. [/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]The ‘under’ was to establish order, position, or rank in these usages. Under was nothing more than to be understood in general as under something else. [/FONT]


“[FONT=Rockwell, serif]Law of-the”[/FONT]
[FONT=Rockwell, serif]Where does the “Law” state a woman is “bound” to her first husband? Or where in the Law does it say she can not marry “another” as “long as he lives?” [/FONT]


“[FONT=Rockwell, serif]As long as lives” was a very strong statement and a blanket statement to be an all inclusive - no matter what - as long as your husband lives (with no exceptions). As it says in Scripture, Hannah “lent” her son Samuel to the Lord “as long as he lives.” [/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]Paul was using a clearly known subject to the believing Jews in Rome, to clear up a spiritual misunderstanding. The Jew's being present at Jesus earthly ministry understood the Law of Moses now concerning marriage, divorce and remarriage.[/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]So the obscurity of Deut 24:1 “uncleanness” was made clear to the multitudes by Jesus to be “sexual immorality.” And the obscurity of the woman being called “defiled” in Deut 24:4 was made clear by Jesus saying whoever marries a put away woman “from a husband” commits adultery (Matt. 5:32b, 19:9b and Luke 16:18). [/FONT]

I.E.

[FONT=Rockwell, serif]To understand the context of Matt. 5:32b and Matt. 19:9b let’s look at the similar written account spoken in Luke 16:18.[/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]Matt. 5:32b “…commit adultery; 32b and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.”[/FONT][FONT=Rockwell, serif] [/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]Luke 16:18b “…commits adultery; 18b and whoever marries her who is divorced from a husband, commits adultery.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]Comparing Luke 16:18 to Matt. 5:32b this in no way suggests that the woman who was put away in the first divorce part A (apart from the case of sexual immorality) was the same woman the man wished to marry in part B. Meaning, if you were trying to understand the 'context' of Matt. 5:32b and 19:9b by Luke 16:18 it would suggest that the “put away woman” could be any woman who was put away “from a (any) husband” (Luke 16:18b).[/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]The “law of the husband” was a command by Law which Paul used to show when you become “under” a “law” (as of The Law of Moses) the law “lords-over” you Rom. 7:1, in which you “were held by” (Rom 7:6) until “death” frees you from ‘what’ you are “bound” to. [/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]Paul also used the words “law of the” or “law of” to point out a set of principles. The “law of the husband” was Paul referencing known facts based out of scripture and not his own opinion.[/FONT]

[FONT=Rockwell, serif]The “law of the husband” was a law of set principle or rules in the Law of Moses that prevented the wife from marring another man “as long as her husband lives.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]Paul being studied under the strictest of the Law would have been very familiar with the different Laws in the Old Testament (the Ancestral Law). Many of the Old Testament Laws were broken down by Moses and after giving the parameters said “This is the law of the...” then stated that Law before or after this saying. Such as “the law of jealousy” Num. 5:29, “law of burnt offering” Lev. 6:9, “law of grain offering” 6:14, “law of sin offering” 6:25, “law of the sacrifice of peace offerings” 7:11, “law of the burnt offering” 7:37, “law of leprous plague” 13:59, “law of the one who had a leprous sore” 14:32, “law of leprosy” 14:57, and “law of one who has a discharge” 15:32.[/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]Paul said in 1 Cor. 7:39 approximately one year BEFORE the book of Romans that when a woman marries a man she becomes [/FONT][FONT=Rockwell, serif]“[/FONT][FONT=Rockwell, serif]bound of law[/FONT][FONT=Rockwell, serif], as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]Remember the Law of “divorce” was not given till Moses Deut. 24:1-4. So, there were no divorced women, permitted by God, before this Law. Man had “rule” (dominion Rom. 7:1) over his wife due to the fall in Gen. 3:16. Deut. 24:4 indicated though a man was permitted to divorce his wife and marry another but the woman was not allowed to marry another man “as long as he lived.” For if she did marry another man, while he was still living, she would have been called “defiled” (shown also in Matt. 5:32b and 19:9b). And that is why Paul calls this the “law of the husband” Rom. 7:2. [/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]We also believe call a set of principles that affects our life law. We say the “law of Nature,” the “law of Gravity,” or the “law of Physics.” [/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]Paul further used the principle of “law” (Rom. 7:21-8:2) in regards to limitations in his life; “law in my members,” “law of sin,” “law that evil is present with me,” “law of the mind,” “law of the Spirit,” and “law of the sin and death.” [/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]Paul also uses the idea of “law” when he said the Jews are not saved by the “law of works” but through the “law (of) faith.” Paul referenced the “Law of God” and the “Law of Christ” in 1 Cor. 9:21. James also spoke about the “law (of) liberty” in James 1:25 and 2:12. [/FONT]


[FONT=Rockwell, serif]Since the woman is under the “law of the husband,” if a wife “separates” from her husband she is must either “remain unmarried” or reconcile back to him 1 Cor. 7:10.[/FONT]