Divorce due to abuse

SirKenin · Feb 16, 2004

Mr.Cheese said:
Abuse is inexcusable. I believe it is an absolute violation and transgression of the marriage covenant. Not only do I believe it to be grounds for leaving, I believe the church should take action against someone who treats the spouse one supposedly loves this way.
I have zero tolerance for abuse. It is a terrible crying shame.

True dat.

msjones21 · Feb 16, 2004

drfeelgood, I did make an attempt to reconcile with my ex-husband after I came back to Christ. We had a lovely conversation in which he forgave me and I forgave him. The problem is that he has since remarried and now has a child therefore I don't believe there will be any reconciliation in regard to reinstating our marriage vows. Believe me, it was my prayer. I do admit my role in the abuse. I did push buttons and there were times I would physically lash out in anger. We were practically children when we married (I was barely 18 and he was 19) and neither one of us put God first in the relationship. There have been many nights I would lie awake and weep as I prayed for God to make a way for us to be together again. I suppose if it is truly God's will He can make it happen in due time, but for now I must respect the boundaries since he is married and has a child. He has also turned away from God and professes a belief in a "god" but not the way Christianity teaches. I feel partially responsible for his loss of faith. There were many times when I would sing a solo at church and after the service someone would approach me and say "I was watching Jared while you sang and you can tell he loves you so much". Obviously it pains me that we did give up so soon. He was adamant when he told me that he has never laid a hand on his new wife in anger. A part of me is envious of that.

Seeing how I am only 23 years old I feel that if I am presented with the opportunity to marry someone who is right for me and I pass it up on Biblical grounds I am being cheated of a decent life. I also have a hard time believing that all of the people I've known in church and throughout life who are devout Christians and have divorced and remarried are going to hell for it.

selune · Feb 16, 2004

I'm constantly reminded of the story of Jesus at the well in Samaria when he encounters the woman who had had 5 husbands and was living with yet another. (Sorry forgot the verse) but if He can forgive her and lead her to the livling water, why can he not do the same now?

hillygirl · Feb 16, 2004

Luke 6

1One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels. 2Some of the Pharisees asked, "Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?"
3Jesus answered them, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4He entered the house of God, and taking the consecrated bread, he ate what is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions." 5Then Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
6On another Sabbath he went into the synagogue and was teaching, and a man was there whose right hand was shriveled. 7The Pharisees and the teachers of the law were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal on the Sabbath. 8But Jesus knew what they were thinking and said to the man with the shriveled hand, "Get up and stand in front of everyone." So he got up and stood there.
9Then Jesus said to them, "I ask you, which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy it?"
10He looked around at them all, and then said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He did so, and his hand was completely restored. 11But they were furious and began to discuss with one another what they might do to Jesus.

Some of you may be wondering why I have chosen to use this passage in a thread about abuse and divorce. To me this passage reflects dogmatic abuse of the scriptures that the pharisees chose to uphold. I believe that the essence of this scripture is not to discuss the importance of the Sabbath but to make us consider dogmatic interpretation of the scripture. Consider Jesus' words - I ask you, which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy it?" Consider this in relation to abusive relationships. In other words just for a moment read I ask you, which is lawful in marriage: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy it?"

He who has an ear to hear let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Jenna · Feb 16, 2004

Here is something that I've thought about, and y'all can feel free to knock the idea around if you like. Jesus said that if a man looked at a woman with lust, then he had already committed adultery in his heart. Is murder any different? What is it that is terrible about adultery? It separates the "one" that was joined together before God, signifying how He is joined with His church. How is one person beating another, possibly to death some how less detrimental to the bond of marriage than having sex with another person? I would say that the act of abuse itself is a pretty good indication that the 'one flesh' concept has been slaughtered by one person taking it upon themselves to harm what would otherwise be a part of their own body. If they truly thought of themselves as one flesh, they could not attack their spouse. How many people do you know who would cut off their arm because it didn't function in a way that they saw as perfect? If lust can be committed in the heart, then I don't understand how other sins, like murder and divorce, are any different.

...... again, here are my two cents. You can do with them what you like......

selune · Feb 16, 2004

Yes, in fact Jesus spoke on this with he who hates has already committed murder in his heart.

~PICKLE~ · Feb 16, 2004

I'm still confused, was I or was I not suppose to stay in that marriage? And if I wasn't, than was I or was I not suppose to remarry.

msjones21 · Feb 16, 2004

Okay, nobody has really answered my question. If I remarry and my new husband and I consummate our marriage I will be committing adultery. Then if we continue to engage in sexual relations we will go to hell?

~PICKLE~ · Feb 16, 2004

msjones, personally I don't think so. I'm remarried, and my father and grandfather are both pastors. They both blessed both my husband and I. I've never been condemned by anyone for leaving a dangerous situation nor told that I was wrong for seeking a happier life. I'll ask my father and see what he says.

charligirl · Feb 17, 2004

msjones21 said:
Okay, nobody has really answered my question. If I remarry and my new husband and I consummate our marriage I will be committing adultery. Then if we continue to engage in sexual relations we will go to hell?

Personally I would have to say no, one argument is that your ex is now remarried and sleeping with someone else so if we are being legalistic about what the bible says then HE is the one who is the adulterer.

I also agree with what others have said about Jesus' forgiveness. He has forgiven you for your divorce, it is forgotton. Your ex has remarried so you are free.

There is a brilliant book 'Should I get Married?' by M Blaine Smith, he deals with many aspects of choosing a spouse, and a divorced person is one topic he covers, from his study into Paul's teaching, going back to the original phrasology, he argues that the original meaning has been skewed by our translatiions, he argues that the interpretation could well be 'if you divorce in order to marry another you committ adultery'.

Paul's teaching goes on to talk about if you are single and you marry, it is not a sin. M Blaine Smith shows how this links to the previous theme of divorce and remarriage and could actually mean 'if you are without a wife (because you have divorced) and you remarry, it is not a sin'.

I realise I have not explained this very well, as I don't have the book to hand, but it is worth a read.... if only to open your mind to possible other interpretations.

charligirl · Feb 17, 2004

drfeelgood said:
I
Whether today's immoral society allows for divorce or not is irrelevant IMHO. They allow for a lot of things that aren't Biblical. Jesus was very clear about the only reason allowed for divorce. He didn't mince words. I will quote it here:

Matthew 19:9

"I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

That's very clear. Anything else is a manipulation of the text as a means to an end.

If I remember correctly you do not take 'do not be unequally yoked' as ever being relevant to marriage, so it could be argued that you manipulate text as a means to an end too.

This is your opinion, there are studies that show the original meaning of this is 'if a man divorces his wife, in order to marry another, except for marital unfaithfulness, he commits adultery. So Jesus was speaking to men who were just willy nillly divorcing at a whim when they fancied a newer model.

Jesus did not go on to speak to wives about divorce because wives were not allowed to divorce their husbands... the only protection they had was the Mosaic Law. Perhaps if they were He would have addressed them too... we will never know, therefore we can only go on God's nature and HIs previous instruction to get a guide for what He would deem acceptable.

I am sure we will get to heaven and find many things are not as we thought they were, noone has the final authority, how we interpret the bible and walk our walk is a personal thing. You believe scripture backs up that it's ok to marry a non believer, I don't. You think divorce for abuse is a sin, I don't.

For me, God's nature does not change, His law was a reflection of his character. If He calls husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the church and they are abusive... I do not think it is in God's nature to call the wife sinful for leaving.... the husband has already broken the covenant.

joshua_cheung · Feb 17, 2004

picklereed4 said:
I was abused for 3 years and i prayed everyday that God would change him and the abuse would stop. My husband was Muslim and he did not agree the way i believed as I did not with him. He saw the abuse as okay and because I was not equal to him, I had no say. The abuse was physical and mental. He really screwed my head up. To this day, if my (now hubby) catches me lagging behind, he stops and waits and tells me I'm not so and so. I had to be 2 steps behind him whereever we went. That stuff sticks. msjones- you are not alone. I don't think God thinks your a failure for getting out, nor do I think I am. I could not handle it anymore. The bruises and the pain you can only hide for so long, I finally went off on him and beat him to a bloody mess with my hair dryer. Then I left and never went back. I blacked out and All that pain and rage came out on him. If that is wrong, sorry, I had to do what i had to do. It was that or my life. And I think God has more for me to do, that's why I'm still here. Remarried with one son and one one the way. I don't agree with flesh99's statement about the only reason for divorce is adulty. I'm sorry if this seems all Blah Blah, his statement really upset me, so I'm gonna make one more comment, walk around the block, calm down then I'll return. There is no reason in the world to stay in abusive relationship. Don't feel like a failure, it's not your fault.

I understand your situation. You have waited for him three years to change and you cannot love him any more because of the suffering.

I don't consider the divorce was adultery . I think it is acceptable to divorce on this case.

But I find that you are still angry because of the suffering. Please, forgive your ex-husband. He hurted you a lot and it was deep inside your heart. His sin had entered your heart.

Your temper (lack of forgiveness) will affect your son and your family.

God blesses you.

Micaiah · Feb 17, 2004

picklereed4 said:
I'm still confused, was I or was I not suppose to stay in that marriage? And if I wasn't, than was I or was I not suppose to remarry.

I thought people like drfeelgood put the case for Scripture pretty well. You obviously reject what Scripture plainly teaches, which is probably why you are confused.

joshua_cheung · Feb 17, 2004

msjones21 said:
drfeelgood, I did make an attempt to reconcile with my ex-husband after I came back to Christ. We had a lovely conversation in which he forgave me and I forgave him. The problem is that he has since remarried and now has a child therefore I don't believe there will be any reconciliation in regard to reinstating our marriage vows. Believe me, it was my prayer. I do admit my role in the abuse. I did push buttons and there were times I would physically lash out in anger. We were practically children when we married (I was barely 18 and he was 19) and neither one of us put God first in the relationship. There have been many nights I would lie awake and weep as I prayed for God to make a way for us to be together again. I suppose if it is truly God's will He can make it happen in due time, but for now I must respect the boundaries since he is married and has a child. He has also turned away from God and professes a belief in a "god" but not the way Christianity teaches. I feel partially responsible for his loss of faith. There were many times when I would sing a solo at church and after the service someone would approach me and say "I was watching Jared while you sang and you can tell he loves you so much". Obviously it pains me that we did give up so soon. He was adamant when he told me that he has never laid a hand on his new wife in anger. A part of me is envious of that.

Seeing how I am only 23 years old I feel that if I am presented with the opportunity to marry someone who is right for me and I pass it up on Biblical grounds I am being cheated of a decent life. I also have a hard time believing that all of the people I've known in church and throughout life who are devout Christians and have divorced and remarried are going to hell for it.

God blesses you. You are good.

In your case,
Your husband was married. You can treated it as marital unfaithness. So by the bible standards. You are free to marry. You had followed the ways of God.

Love others as you love yourself. God is love. All laws are under the word -love. If there are no love, why do you need to keep the Law?

Tangnefedd · Feb 18, 2004

There is no question at all that if you are in an abusive relationship, mentally or physically, divorce is the way to go. No one should stay in a marriage that is a farce, especially if kids are involved.

Follower of Christ · Feb 18, 2004

msjones21 said:
I have seen various opinions on this issue so I wanted to start a thread about it. I completely understand that this is a very difficult topic. I have experienced domestic abuse first-hand and it was the reason my marriage ended only a year and a half after we took our vows. When I divorced I was scorned by my church. I was called a liar. Prior to the divorce I attended a tent revival and asked the guest evangelist to give me some advice. He told me that there was no reason good enough in God's eyes to go against the Bible and divorce. He told me that if I threw in the towel I would be violating God's commands. I felt like a failure because I couldn't get my husband to stop beating me. I suffered a miscarriage as the result of his abuse and I was still told "stick it out and make it work".

What are your thoughts on divorce due to abuse?

I think we should try to make marriage work as hard as we can.
I understand the abuse thing as I grew up with a stepfather who beat mom on a regular basis.
I know that a man can make a womans life hell.

I know what the bible says about divorce and adultery and i have divorced 2 wives over that alone.

Ill tell you what, divorcing a worthless man who beats you and hasnt cheated on you may not coincide with the way folks see our Lord, but Ill give you this sister........its not the unforgivable sin.

Ive a feeling that folks who telll you to stick it out would change their childish minds if it were them getting the hell beat out of them or if it were THEIR daughter having it happen.

The first time thier little girl crawled in bleeding begging for help theyd change their pious attitudes.
Ive seen it a few times.
It only counts when its THEIR problem.

Forget the church.
Forget the pastor.
Forget the congregation.

This is between you and your Lord God.
Tell Him how you feel and talk to Him.
Then go down and file for divorce...........

sorry so graphic and so blunt..........but this is one topic that really enrages me........

Follower of Christ · Feb 18, 2004

deleted by FOC........

LN · Feb 18, 2004

Yes I mean the scriptures outlined in this thread present specific cases in which a spouse can file for divorce but no where does it say "if you are beaten continue in marriage." Turning the other cheek in this sense would mean to me don't fight back, and get yourself out of the situation. If we look at everything that Jesus has said holistically, I am not convinced he ever directed any of us to be anyone's punching bag.

LN

secretdawn · Feb 18, 2004

msjones21 said:
I have seen various opinions on this issue so I wanted to start a thread about it. I completely understand that this is a very difficult topic. I have experienced domestic abuse first-hand and it was the reason my marriage ended only a year and a half after we took our vows. When I divorced I was scorned by my church. I was called a liar. Prior to the divorce I attended a tent revival and asked the guest evangelist to give me some advice. He told me that there was no reason good enough in God's eyes to go against the Bible and divorce. He told me that if I threw in the towel I would be violating God's commands. I felt like a failure because I couldn't get my husband to stop beating me. I suffered a miscarriage as the result of his abuse and I was still told "stick it out and make it work".

What are your thoughts on divorce due to abuse?

I don't know about abuse, at least what the bible says, but i know that guy was wrong, cause it distinctly says that divorce is ok, when it comes to sexual immorality

secretdawn · Feb 18, 2004

ok...i suppose that we could all agree that a human life is God's and God's alone to give and take, yes?

Based on that, in an abusive relationship, i would suppose (i haven't been there, so this is a guess) that the woman would be fearing for her life. I hear many don't leave cause they are afraid the man will kill them or their children. Well, to stay with a man who you believe will kill you, take from you what only God has the authority to take, would be a sort of suicide. Allowing your life to be threatened day in and day out, would be putting your physical life in the hand of a man instead of God. So wouldn't it be necessary to take yourself away from a situation detrimental to your life?

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