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Si_monfaith

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The answer is the same as for salvation. Salvation is included in the atonement. Are all men saved? No. But it is not the will of God that any perish. But it is evident that they do. It is not the will of God that any suffer illness. But they do and for the same reason.
That answer is this: For whatever reason.. they are not believing. Something is missing in them that is preventing or blocking belief. I suppose we could ask the same question Jesus asked. "Why is it that you do not believe?" Since the living Word asked it, it must be a valid question.

I realize it is your style to interrogate people and try to turn the discussion to your liking. Not going to fall for that Si.
Healing is provided for all in the atonement, just like salvation. That is the WoF teaching.
As you not me, brought in the point of salvation, let me ask you this: "God foreknew many wouldn't believe for salvation but still went ahead and created them. Why would He desire for such people to be saved or healed? Would you answer without digressing to interrogation styles?

Secondly, why He told to visit rather then believe to be healed?
 
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SavedByGrace3

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As you not me, brought in the point of salvation, let me ask you this: "God foreknew many wouldn't believe for salvation but still went ahead and created them. Why would He desire for such people to be saved or healed? Would you answer without digressing to interrogation styles?

Secondly, why He told to visit rather then believe to be healed?

One of the dilemmas created by those who hold to the "God is in control of everything" theory is that they then have to conform God to the world. So what they see in the world must be the will of God. Their image of God is based on sight evidence, not word and faith evidence. This is a terrible place for them to be because they are then forced to openly rebel against God denying the Word whenever sight would seem to contradict the Word. They essentially not only decide to walk by sight... but also define God by what they see in the world! After all, if God is controlling everything, then the world is an exact image of God, His will, and even His very nature. Oh my!!!
The word says that Jesus is the revelation of the Father. The evidence we see around us is not an exact image of the Father. So we cannot always tell why someone is not healed or why prayers are not answered... but one thing we can do is rule out God as the cause. This is something "God is in control of everything" adherents cannot do. After all to them God is the cause of everything. So we visit those who are sick, and in prison, and alone and do not question or doubt the reason or cause. That is knowledge God may not share with us. But he is not withholding anything because He has already given us all things. He is not holding back anything. Of course, once again, those who hold to the "God is in control of everything" theory cannot see this. They assume that since God is controlling everything then if something does or does not happen... it has to be Him. So they would rather question God, His will, His Word, and His very nature in preference to their own sense knowledge and doubts. Eventually they build an image of God that is based not on the Word but their own doubts, fears, and sense knowledge. All because they hold to the bogus doctrine that God is in control of everything.
We need to base our faith on His word... not on sense knowledge.
 
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Si_monfaith

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One of the dilemmas created by those who hold to the "God is in control of everything" theory is that they then have to conform God to the world. So what they see in the world must be the will of God. Their image of God is based on sight evidence, not word and faith evidence. This is a terrible place for them to be because they are then forced to openly rebel against God denying the Word whenever sight would seem to contradict the Word. They essentially not only decide to walk by sight... but also define God by what they see in the world! After all, if God is controlling everything, then the world is an exact image of God, His will, and even His very nature. Oh my!!!
The word says that Jesus is the revelation of the Father. The evidence we see around us is not an exact image of the Father. So we cannot always tell why someone is not healed or why prayers are not answered... but one thing we can do is rule out God as the cause. This is something "God is in control of everything" adherents cannot do. After all to them God is the cause of everything. So we visit those who are sick, and in prison, and alone and do not question or doubt the reason or cause. That is knowledge God may not share with us. But he is not withholding anything because He has already given us all things. He is not holding back anything. Of course, once again, those who hold to the "God is in control of everything" theory cannot see this. They assume that since God is controlling everything then if something does or does not happen... it has to be Him. So they would rather question God, His will, His Word, and His very nature in preference to their own sense knowledge and doubts. Eventually they build an image of God that is based not on the Word but their own doubts, fears, and sense knowledge. All because they hold to the bogus doctrine that God is in control of everything.
We need to base our faith on His word... not on sense knowledge.

Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Aren't those who deny God's control over human wills do so by looking at the circumstances rather than trust God's word in proverbs 21:1?

Do you mean to say that God's purpose for the world could be thwarted because human will is free to make choices which are opposite to God's purposes?
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Aren't those who deny God's control over human wills do so by looking at the circumstances rather than trust God's word in proverbs 21:1?

Do you mean to say that God's purpose for the world could be thwarted because human will is free to make choices which are opposite to God's purposes?
I dunno Si. I see free will as kind of a illusion, and in the end, irrelevant anyway. If free will was so as powerful as some think, then that would seem to say the smart and the wise would all "choose" the right choices and our pews would be jammed with the wise and intelligent. My old friend, I do not put a lot of stock in free will and the power of choice that drives it. Not many wise seem to make the right choice.
But your words are well taken and I think we agree.
Blessings, and may your new year be the best yet!
 
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Si_monfaith

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I dunno Si. I see free will as kind of a illusion, and in the end, irrelevant anyway. If free will was so as powerful as some think, then that would seem to say the smart and the wise would all "choose" the right choices and our pews would be jammed with the wise and intelligent. My old friend, I do not put a lot of stock in free will and the power of choice that drives it. Not may wise seem to make the right choice.
But your words are well taken and I think we agree.
Blessings, and may your new year be the best yet!
Sure thanks, and may your new year be the best yet too.

Can both God's will and human will be free? If human will be free to oppose God's purposes, won't God's will lose freedom to fulfill His purposes?

Proverbs 16:4 "The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." God's purposes need not always look good, neat and right in our perspective, right?
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Sure thanks, and may your new year be the best yet too.

Can both God's will and human will be free? If human will be free to oppose God's purposes, won't God's will lose freedom to fulfill His purposes?

Proverbs 16:4 "The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." God's purposes need not always look good, neat and right in our perspective, right?
Well we have to admit that the world is not the neat and clean place a "God Controlled World" would seem to dictate. Either God is the orchestrator of chaos... something we have to refuse, or He is simply allowing these things to happen by default. In my mind, this is the more tenable option.
 
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Si_monfaith

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Well we have to admit that the world is not the neat and clean place a "God Controlled World" would seem to dictate. Either God is the orchestrator of chaos... something we have to refuse, or He is simply allowing these things to happen by default. In my mind, this is the more tenable option.
So do you mean to say God has created this world with all the events without any predetermined purpose?

So is there any meaning & hope for the existence of Christians?
 
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SavedByGrace3

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So do you mean to say God has created this world with all the events without any predetermined purpose?

So is there any meaning & hope for the existence of Christians?
Nope. Did not say that.
 
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Bobber

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It is finished people. Thank God for your healing... even if it is the last breath you take.
The Word of God is true... we are helpless before the integrity of God and His word!

Very true! Someone might ask what if I did all that faith "stuff" and never got healed and died. Well I wouldn't be caught dead having not been at least trying to walk in faith.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Very true! Someone might ask what if I did all that faith "stuff" and never got healed and died. Well I wouldn't be caught dead having not been at least trying to walk in faith.
Yes... in Hebrews 11, the "Faith Chapter" Paul lists believers who went to their grave without receiving the promise. It is our job to believe. That is what pleases God. If you NEVER receive the promise... you are still required to believe and hold fast to your confession. In no circumstances are we to deny the word, call God a liar, and go back on His promises. Believe and thank God to your last breath. That is our job as believers!
 
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Si_monfaith

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Nope. Did not say that.
If God had a predetermined purpose for His creation, then don't things which don't appear right have their place under His perfect control rather than exist by default?
 
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Si_monfaith

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It is not the will of God that any suffer illness. But they do and for the same reason.
That answer is this: For whatever reason.. they are not believing.

Didn't Jesus perform miracle healings for those who didn't believe?
 
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