Diversity

[Staccato]

The separation of church and state is a legal and political principle derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The phrase "separation of church and state", which does not appear in the Constitution itself, is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, where Jefferson spoke of the combined effect of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. It has since been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court.

Please note the word "derived".

Yes, I note the word that a Wikipedia contributor used to describe this situation. The point still stands.

Satan and his followers take the good things of God and perverts (derives) them into evil.

Love is perverted into lust.

Charity is perverted into health care/welfare.

Wait, wait, hold up a minute here. Are you saying that programs which enable those who cannot afford to be able to get free health care and money to survive is the work of Satan? If they relied on charity as opposed to welfare they'd go home hungry nine times out of ten.

Activist judges derive (pervert) things from the Constitution. Conservative judges stick with what the Constitution says.

A Constitution written over two hundred years ago that, without speculative but scholarly derivation, unreasonably constrains the development of law and society in the United States. Are you seriously saying we can't take anything other than a literalist approach to interpreting it or we are doing the work of Satan?

Atheists know enough about the Bible is use it to attack Christians and most Christian know so little that they cannot point out the perversion of the Atheists.

Then that is a failing of Christians, not atheists. You would think reading and understanding the holy word of God would be pretty high on their lists.

Throughout the Bible there is the concept of wars and rumors of war. Christians know there are evil people

As do we all, sadly.

that would impose their will on others

But isn't that what Christians would do in the Christian theocracy you frequently advocate?

and Christians know the only way to stop evil people in many cases is war.

In self-defence, or otherwise?

When Matthew was discussing peacemakers, he was saying that Christians should tolerate a lot of things, and try to maintain peace, but then everyone has the right of self defense when attacked.

We may be getting a bit off topic here, but I'll throw in my two cents: did Vietnam attack us? Was that self defence on our part?

Christians are told to turn the other cheek for petty insults

Which, not to put too fine a point on it, this electoral campaign has showed they may need to take a refresher course in.

but then God orders the execution of a person for violating the Sabbath.

When was the last time that happened? Would you advocate such a law being enforced in America?

All sins are not equal. Obviously murder is not the same as gossip.

But murder is the same as shoplifting?

I believe there are the Old Testament physical sins and the New Testament spiritual sins. The Old Testament physical sins are forgiven when a person accepts Jesus Christ as Lord/Savior and it is expected these physical sins will not occur after a person is a Christian.

But they do none the less.

Seriously speaking now, could you please provide the verse or verses that highlight the difference between spiritual and physical sins, as I haven't heard of this distinction before. Thanks

 

[Nathan Poe]

Wait, wait, hold up a minute here. Are you saying that programs which enable those who cannot afford to be able to get free health care and money to survive is the work of Satan? If they relied on charity as opposed to welfare they'd go home hungry nine times out of ten.

It's odd -- clirus is apparantly opposed to the government compelling people to embrace Christian values, yet that's exactly what he wants them to do -- to the rest of us, of course.

Fundamentalist Doublethink at its finest.

But isn't that what Christians would do in the Christian theocracy you frequently advocate?

Absolutely -- but nobody opposes facism when they side with the facists.

 

[Verv]

First, Clirus, do you have a source for your fox thing? That is interesting.

Second, some of our most founding fathers were deists who did not believe in the Christian God.

I think of our nation as being a sort of nation definitely built under God in the sense that our principles are derived from a political view that involves God. However, it is for Christians, Jews, and everyone else to enjoy the freedom of.

We should have the freedom of choice in all things.

But I agree that socialism 'really sucks.'

 

[clirus]

Staccato quote

Seriously speaking now, could you please provide the verse or verses that highlight the difference between spiritual and physical sins, as I haven't heard of this distinction before. Thanks

Response

Matthew 5:27-29, "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for the whole body to be thrown into hell"

Adultery in the heart is different from physical adultery, but God considers them both are sin. The adultery in the heart (spiritual sin) is a sin because it will lead to physical adultery if the person does not remove it from their heart.

I believe God provides the Holy Spirit to Christians to attempt to persuade the Christian to remove spiritual sin from their heart before it becomes physical sin. Because of the sin nature of man that exists in a person before and after they become a Christian means there will always be a great struggle and some Christians will fail, but most do remove the sin from their heart and ask God to forgive them of the spiritual sin.

In order for physical sin to be forgiven, I believe it is necessary to repent in the same manner as when a person repents and becomes a Christian. I believe it is a very serious thing for Christians to be involved in physical sin.

 

[clirus]

Staccato quote

Yes, I note the word that a Wikipedia contributor used to describe this situation. The point still stands.

Response

It sure is hard to convince people they are wrong.

If the concept of Separation of Church and State being in the Constitution still stands, it is among the walking dead.

 

[Staccato]

Staccato quote

Seriously speaking now, could you please provide the verse or verses that highlight the difference between spiritual and physical sins, as I haven't heard of this distinction before. Thanks

Response

Matthew 5:27-29, "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for the whole body to be thrown into hell"

Adultery in the heart is different from physical adultery, but God considers them both are sin. The adultery in the heart (spiritual sin) is a sin because it will lead to physical adultery if the person does not remove it from their heart.

I believe God provides the Holy Spirit to Christians to attempt to persuade the Christian to remove spiritual sin from their heart before it becomes physical sin. Because of the sin nature of man that exists in a person before and after they become a Christian means there will always be a great struggle and some Christians will fail, but most do remove the sin from their heart and ask God to forgive them of the spiritual sin.

In order for physical sin to be forgiven, I believe it is necessary to repent in the same manner as when a person repents and becomes a Christian. I believe it is a very serious thing for Christians to be involved in physical sin.

Oh I see what you mean now. Thanks for the verses and commentary

 

[Staccato]

Response

It sure is hard to convince people they are wrong.

Something I think all of us suffer from

If the concept of Separation of Church and State being in the Constitution still stands, it is among the walking dead.

How so? Do you forsee it being 'overturned' soon?

 

[clirus]

jmverville quote

First, Clirus, do you have a source for your fox thing? That is interesting.

Second, some of our most founding fathers were deists who did not believe in the Christian God.

I think of our nation as being a sort of nation definitely built under God in the sense that our principles are derived from a political view that involves God. However, it is for Christians, Jews, and everyone else to enjoy the freedom of.

We should have the freedom of choice in all things.

But I agree that socialism 'really sucks.'

Response

The Russian fox experiment was presented as a part of a PBS show about how dogs became domesticated from wolves.

America has always had freedom of religion, even for the Atheistic Religion. The problem that America has is that the Atheists are using concepts of Separation of Church and State, Evolution, Diversity, Health Care/Welfare/Socialism, Homosexuality, Pornography, Abortion and other Atheistic concepts to eliminate Christian Principles from society.

The Atheists have found great allies in the Judicial System, the Atheistic Liberal News and Entertainment Industry and the democratic party.

I believe God will remove the hedge from America if America is no longer a Christian Nation.

Should people have the choice to choose evil?

There is an economic crisis because people were allowed to choose evil and now the people that choose evil want a bailout. Health Care/Welfare/Socialism is a bailout for people that choose evil.

This thing of evil is very serious. Romans 6:23, states "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

 

[reverend B]

jmverville quote

First, Clirus, do you have a source for your fox thing? That is interesting.

Second, some of our most founding fathers were deists who did not believe in the Christian God.

I think of our nation as being a sort of nation definitely built under God in the sense that our principles are derived from a political view that involves God. However, it is for Christians, Jews, and everyone else to enjoy the freedom of.

We should have the freedom of choice in all things.

But I agree that socialism 'really sucks.'

Response

The Russian fox experiment was presented as a part of a PBS show about how dogs became domesticated from wolves.

America has always had freedom of religion, even for the Atheistic Religion. The problem that America has is that the Atheists are using concepts of Separation of Church and State, Evolution, Diversity, Health Care/Welfare/Socialism, Homosexuality, Pornography, Abortion and other Atheistic concepts to eliminate Christian Principles from society.

The Atheists have found great allies in the Judicial System, the Atheistic Liberal News and Entertainment Industry and the democratic party.

I believe God will remove the hedge from America if America is no longer a Christian Nation.

Should people have the choice to choose evil?

There is an economic crisis because people were allowed to choose evil and now the people that choose evil want a bailout. Health Care/Welfare/Socialism is a bailout for people that choose evil.

This thing of evil is very serious. Romans 6:23, states "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

of course people should have the choice to choose evil. if not, what value is there in choosing righteousness? the choice is the essence of us being Christian. one can not be mandated to love Jesus. can't be done.

as for your commentary about adultery of the heart vs. adultery of the flesh, you miss the point entirely. the point is that there is no distinction between the two. the sin is in how we perceive the object of our lust, and once we have passed that threshold of objectifying the target, the physical act is merely the followthrough on the sin that has already been committed.

as for the "hedge" around america, the argument can be made that our wealth has been the curse that God has bestowed upon us, making us a prideful and arrogant nation that has lost the love for its neighbors. i don't think this is true, either, but it makes just as much sense as believing we are somehow the new "chosen people" of God that your hedge theory implies.

no one is trying to remove Christianity from society, only from government. i don't feel the least bit threatened in my faith living in the u.s. in fact, i feel that religion has become a humiliating cudgel that is being wielded in both campaigns. a politician can not leave the stage after a speech without imploring that God bless america. it has already lost its meaning, if it ever had any, by its rote repetition. God has no obligation to bless us. the obligation is ours to value God and live a life of love accordingly. nations can not live this way, and that is why Jesus never tried to influence government or nations, but went directly to people's hearts.

 

[Nathan Poe]

of course people should have the choice to choose evil. if not, what value is there in choosing righteousness? the choice is the essence of us being Christian. one can not be mandated to love Jesus. can't be done.

IIRC, clirus is very much against free will.

 

[revanneosl]

I know it's a little off-topic, but is there some kind of "boycott the quote function" going on?

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Well, at least it wasn't an op that repeated 50 other OPs!

 

[clirus]

reverend B quote

of course people should have the choice to choose evil. if not, what value is there in choosing righteousness? the choice is the essence of us being Christian. one can not be mandated to love Jesus. can't be done.

as for your commentary about adultery of the heart vs. adultery of the flesh, you miss the point entirely. the point is that there is no distinction between the two. the sin is in how we perceive the object of our lust, and once we have passed that threshold of objectifying the target, the physical act is merely the followthrough on the sin that has already been committed.

as for the "hedge" around america, the argument can be made that our wealth has been the curse that God has bestowed upon us, making us a prideful and arrogant nation that has lost the love for its neighbors. i don't think this is true, either, but it makes just as much sense as believing we are somehow the new "chosen people" of God that your hedge theory implies.

no one is trying to remove Christianity from society, only from government. i don't feel the least bit threatened in my faith living in the u.s. in fact, i feel that religion has become a humiliating cudgel that is being wielded in both campaigns. a politician can not leave the stage after a speech without imploring that God bless america. it has already lost its meaning, if it ever had any, by its rote repetition. God has no obligation to bless us. the obligation is ours to value God and live a life of love accordingly. nations can not live this way, and that is why Jesus never tried to influence government or nations, but went directly to people's hearts.

Response

Choosing Evil

It should grieve the heart of every Christian, every parent, every person, when anyone chooses evil. I know there will always be people that choose evil, but anyone that condones evil or advocates evil is doing evil.

Mandating things does not work, but I truly believe most people will choose good if the whole truth is presented about both good and evil. The truth about evil is seldom presented. The short term pleasures of evil are presented, but the long term disease, death and destruction are not presented in movies or TV.

No Distinction

If there is no distinction in sin before or after a person becomes a Christian, then there will be no one in heaven because God will not allow sin in His presence. Hell insures that there is separation between God and evil, by there being heaven for good and hell for evil.

James 1:13-15 states, "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."

The James passage talks about lust, sin and death. I believe there is a distinction between lust and sin. I believe lust/spiritual sin can be forgiven by a sincere prayer of repentance, but sin can only be forgiven by the blood of Jesus Christ and a public statement of repentance by the person that they have sinned. There must be a change in the heart of a person, or they are have not become a Christian.

Government health care/welfare fails because the government does not require repentance. The first step to getting out of a problem is to admit there is a problem. The first step to not being an Alcoholic is to admit that you are an Alcoholic. The first step to not being a sinner is to admit that you are a sinner.

There are some physical reasons (birth defects, etc.) for needing health care/welfare, but most of the need is because sinful activity does bringeth forth death.

Lost Hedge

There are a lot of reasons the hedge can be lost, but the main reason is because people no longer love and respect God. Liberal Christians will say the hedge can be lost by not loving your neighbor, but I will quote the Great Commandment so the correct order of priority can be established.

Matthew 22:37-40 says, "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

Too many people think the order can be reversed, but I do not.

Removing God from Society

When you remove God from the government, you have removed God from the society the government represents. Matthew 6:24 states, "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

The government cannot server two masters either. Either America will be a Christian Nation and the Christian Lifestyle will be favored, or America will be an Atheistic Nation and the Atheistic Lifestyle will be favored. As a Christian Nation, Atheism was tolerated, but I am not sure Christianity will be tolerated as an Atheistic Nation. Rome did not tolerate Christians.

Prayer has been removed from public schools and diversity training implemented. The Ten Commandments are being removed from all public places. There is an attempt underway to remove "In God We Trust" for the money and all public places.

The choice for America is whether it is best to be a Christian Nation or an Atheistic Nation. That choice is made by the vote that will be cast in November.

Republicans have yet to prove to me that they totally support Christian principles, but democrats have proven they do "not" support Christian Principles.

 

[clirus]

I know it's a little off-topic, but is there some kind of "boycott the quote function" going on?

I am sorry, but the quote function does not work for me most of the time. I do most of my writing offline, then paste it. I frequently will hold a post several hours or overnight, then post.

 

[Nathan Poe]

reverend B quote

of course people should have the choice to choose evil. if not, what value is there in choosing righteousness? the choice is the essence of us being Christian. one can not be mandated to love Jesus. can't be done.

as for your commentary about adultery of the heart vs. adultery of the flesh, you miss the point entirely. the point is that there is no distinction between the two. the sin is in how we perceive the object of our lust, and once we have passed that threshold of objectifying the target, the physical act is merely the followthrough on the sin that has already been committed.

as for the "hedge" around america, the argument can be made that our wealth has been the curse that God has bestowed upon us, making us a prideful and arrogant nation that has lost the love for its neighbors. i don't think this is true, either, but it makes just as much sense as believing we are somehow the new "chosen people" of God that your hedge theory implies.

no one is trying to remove Christianity from society, only from government. i don't feel the least bit threatened in my faith living in the u.s. in fact, i feel that religion has become a humiliating cudgel that is being wielded in both campaigns. a politician can not leave the stage after a speech without imploring that God bless america. it has already lost its meaning, if it ever had any, by its rote repetition. God has no obligation to bless us. the obligation is ours to value God and live a life of love accordingly. nations can not live this way, and that is why Jesus never tried to influence government or nations, but went directly to people's hearts.

Response

Choosing Evil

It should grieve the heart of every Christian, every parent, every person, when anyone chooses evil. I know there will always be people that choose evil, but anyone that condones evil or advocates evil is doing evil.

Your opinion so far -- fair enough.

Mandating things does not work, but I truly believe most people will choose good if the whole truth is presented about both good and evil. The truth about evil is seldom presented. The short term pleasures of evil are presented, but the long term disease, death and destruction are not presented in movies or TV.

So you're not trying to mandate Christian Principles, is that it?

As for presentation on movies and TV -- pleasure sells; consequences do not. Take it up with the sponsors.

No Distinction

If there is no distinction in sin before or after a person becomes a Christian, then there will be no one in heaven because God will not allow sin in His presence. Hell insures that there is separation between God and evil, by there being heaven for good and hell for evil.

James 1:13-15 states, "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."

The James passage talks about lust, sin and death. I believe there is a distinction between lust and sin. I believe lust/spiritual sin can be forgiven by a sincere prayer of repentance, but sin can only be forgiven by the blood of Jesus Christ and a public statement of repentance by the person that they have sinned. There must be a change in the heart of a person, or they are have not become a Christian.

Completely irrelevent to whatever your point may be.

Government health care/welfare fails because the government does not require repentance. The first step to getting out of a problem is to admit there is a problem. The first step to not being an Alcoholic is to admit that you are an Alcoholic. The first step to not being a sinner is to admit that you are a sinner.

But government health care/welfare has nothing to do with sinners, but with those people who need them -- whether or not through any fault of their own is irrelevent.

There are some physical reasons (birth defects, etc.) for needing health care/welfare, but most of the need is because sinful activity does bringeth forth death.

So your plan is to punish the innocent in order to make sure the guilty don't get away with it.

Lost Hedge

There are a lot of reasons the hedge can be lost, but the main reason is because people no longer love and respect God. Liberal Christians will say the hedge can be lost by not loving your neighbor, but I will quote the Great Commandment so the correct order of priority can be established.

Matthew 22:37-40 says, "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

Too many people think the order can be reversed, but I do not.

Nobody should be mandated to live life by your opinion.

Removing God from Society

When you remove God from the government, you have removed God from the society the government represents. Matthew 6:24 states, "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

The government cannot server two masters either. Either America will be a Christian Nation and the Christian Lifestyle will be favored, or America will be an Atheistic Nation and the Atheistic Lifestyle will be favored. As a Christian Nation, Atheism was tolerated, but I am not sure Christianity will be tolerated as an Atheistic Nation. Rome did not tolerate Christians.

Actually, they did, at first. Judaism was tolerated, and in the beginning, when Christianity was seen as a subsect of Judaism, it was tolerated. It wasn't until the reign of Nero, when the corrupt emprtor needed a scapegoat to distract people from his own corruption, that the Christians suffered.

I would expect nothing different from a Christian emperor -- except that the Atheists won't be targeted until the country runs out of Muslims.

Prayer has been removed from public schools

This is a lie -- Prayer has not been removed, it's simply no longer mandated.

I thought you were against mandating Christian principles -- I guess I was mistaken.

and diversity training implemented.

except for those who so obviously need it the most.

The Ten Commandments are being removed from all public places.

Only the ones funded by the government.

There is an attempt underway to remove "In God We Trust" for the money and all public places.

Anyone who knows their history knows that "IGWT" was not a symbol of faith, but of fear and paranoia, best left behind.

The choice for America is whether it is best to be a Christian Nation or an Atheistic Nation. That choice is made by the vote that will be cast in November.

You honestly think The election is going to be between Christians and Atheists?

Without your usual

Republicans have yet to prove to me that they totally support Christian principles, but democrats have proven they do "not" support Christian Principles.

spam, why not explain how the current crop of politicos are going to bring Christianity into government?

By mandate, perhaps?

 

[clirus]

Nathan Poe quote

So you're not trying to mandate Christian Principles, is that it?

Response

I am recommending Christian Principles for individuals, nations and the world, and I am defending that Christian Principles are the best policy for individuals, nations and the world.

I have one vote, but I hope my recommendations and defense will influence others to see that the main issue in the November election and all of life is the choice of the Christian Lifestyle or the Atheistic Lifestyle.

The Christian Lifestyle is the most environmentally friendly, socially responsible lifestyle that exists. The Atheistic Lifestyle leads to disease, death and destruction.

There will never be a perfect Christian and the Christian Lifestyle will never be perfect, thus my defense of the Christian Lifestyle is that it is better than the Atheistic Lifestyle. In order to do this, the disease, death and destruction of the Atheistic Lifestyle must be proven, but that is a simple task just by looking at any newspaper.

Most Christians try to convince people that the Christian Lifestyle is better on the bases that God loves you, thus you should love God. Some people will accept a God that does not require they give up their Atheistic Lifestyle, but would reject God if they were told they would be required to follow the commandments/doctrines of the Bible.

Convincing people that the Christian Lifestyle is better is difficult because the Atheistic Liberal News and Entertainment Industry and democrats are presenting the case that the there is no problem with the Atheistic Lifestyle. This is done by presenting the pleasureful early stages of sin, but ignoring the disease, death and destruction that follows.

Every TV ad you see by democrats was written by a professional writer based on a professional market survey team that determines what people want. Bill Clinton based all the policies of his administration on polls and one of the poll results was that the people did not what America to go to war. This led to 9/11. Every TV advertizement that Obama makes is a well crafted statement of what people want. Hillary Clinton was honest when she stated she had more ideas than people had money.

Some would say that Christians and Republicans should do the same, but it is hard to recommend health care/welfare when you really know what most people need is the change of heart that comes with accepting Jesus Christ as Lord/Savior and committing to following the commandments/doctrines of the Bible.

It is hard for a mother to tell her children not to eat sweets when what they want is sweets. When the obesity problem/pornography problem/abortion problem/homosexuality problem in America is over, you will know that America has chosen what is healthy/good instead of what they want/evil.

It would be interesting to tell a reporter the your health care/welfare plan was to eliminate all government funding of health care/welfare and only to offer a tax break to the people that take care of their own special needs/children and parents. I believe the Bible teaches that people should take care of their own children and parents and that it is ok/? for government to offer a tax break to people that take care of the children that have special needs.

Neither Christians nor the government should mandate most things, but Christians should recommend Christian Principles because they are in obedience to God and the government should recommend Christian Principles for health reasons.

 

[jayem]

Doesn't the Bible also say that tending to the sick is a moral obligation for a believer?

It would seem to me that using government--not to provide health care directly--but to ensure that citizens have access to affordable health insurance and can't be denied coverage or priced out of the market because of their health status is exactly in keeping with Biblical teaching. This would certainly be a government policy that promotes Judeo-Christian values. I'd also think that the government supporting medical education, and ethical medical research, so that we have well-trained providers who can treat illness in the most scientific and effective manner is also a highly moral and worthwhile activity.

 

[KarateCowboy]

America was never a Christian Nation. It is, and was, a nation in which the predominant religion is, and was, Christianity. There is a distinct difference.
.

A tautology shows that your reasoning is nonsense in this case:

For example:

Zimbabwe was never a black nation. It is, and was, a nation in which the predominant skin color is, and was, black. There is a distinct difference.

Russia never was a Russian nation. It is, and was, a nation in which the predominant ethnicity is, and was, Russian. There is a distinct difference.

Cuba was never a socialist nation. It is, and was, a nation in which the predominant system is, and was, socialism. There is a distinct difference.

No, there is no difference. It's two ways of saying the same thing. The words "a nation of Christians" and "a Christian nation" carries the same linguistic meaning. So much trouble would be saved if people just understood grammar. Noun + of + postmodifier == adjective + noun

I suspect that what you are trying to say is that the USA is not a Christian theocracy. That is correct. However Christian theocracy != Christian nation. Please have clarity and notice the difference.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Nathan Poe quote

So you're not trying to mandate Christian Principles, is that it?

Response

I am recommending Christian Principles for individuals, nations and the world, and I am defending that Christian Principles are the best policy for individuals, nations and the world.

You've made your recommendation -- you've been largely ignored. If you were telling the truth, you'd be satisfied.

So... what do you really want?

I have one vote, but I hope my recommendations and defense will influence others to see that the main issue in the November election and all of life is the choice of the Christian Lifestyle or the Atheistic Lifestyle.

Clearly by now you've seen that hope dashed to bits, like a non-Israleite against the stones. (Psalm 137:9)

The Christian Lifestyle is the most environmentally friendly, socially responsible lifestyle that exists. The Atheistic Lifestyle leads to disease, death and destruction.

You've been given ample opportunity to illustrate this, however, we have, perhaps, been unreasonable by insisting that you limit yourself to honest means.

There will never be a perfect Christian and the Christian Lifestyle will never be perfect, thus my defense of the Christian Lifestyle is that it is better than the Atheistic Lifestyle. In order to do this, the disease, death and destruction of the Atheistic Lifestyle must be proven, but that is a simple task just by looking at any newspaper.

I look at plenty of newspapers -- I don't see the Atheist Lifestyle causing any disease, death or destruction.

Here, let me make your next response for you... blah blah blah "Atheistic Liberal News Media" blah blah blah DRINK!

Most Christians try to convince people that the Christian Lifestyle is better on the bases that God loves you, thus you should love God. Some people will accept a God that does not require they give up their Atheistic Lifestyle, but would reject God if they were told they would be required to follow the commandments/doctrines of the Bible.

And then there are those who would gladly enforce the commandments/docrines of the Bible on everyone except themselves.

Convincing people that the Christian Lifestyle is better is difficult because the Atheistic Liberal News and Entertainment Industry

DRINK!

and democrats are presenting the case that the there is no problem with the Atheistic Lifestyle. This is done by presenting the pleasureful early stages of sin, but ignoring the disease, death and destruction that follows.

And you're going to attempt to paint the Republican Party as the party of consequences and accountability?

It is now 5:47. I shall be laughing sporadically until 8:12.

Oh, let me guess what comes next:

"Republicans have yet to prove to me that they totally support Christian principles, but democrats have proven they do "not" support Christian Principles."

Every TV ad you see by democrats was written by a professional writer based on a professional market survey team that determines what people want. Bill Clinton based all the policies of his administration on polls and one of the poll results was that the people did not what America to go to war. This led to 9/11. Every TV advertizement that Obama makes is a well crafted statement of what people want. Hillary Clinton was honest when she stated she had more ideas than people had money.

Is your contention that neither Bush nor McCain hire professionals? Are you really going to try to peddle that excrement here?

Some would say that Christians and Republicans should do the same, but it is hard to recommend health care/welfare when you really know what most people need is the change of heart that comes with accepting Jesus Christ as Lord/Savior and committing to following the commandments/doctrines of the Bible.

So, your contention is that this is the reason Republicans don't advocate health care? Because True Christians don't get sick? Because True Christians never need Charity?

It is hard for a mother to tell her children not to eat sweets when what they want is sweets. When the obesity problem/pornography problem/abortion problem/homosexuality problem in America is over, you will know that America has chosen what is healthy/good instead of what they want/evil.

Except that there has never, but never, been a period in human history where these "problems" didn't exist -- yet society has remained healthy enough.

It would be interesting to tell a reporter the your health care/welfare plan was to eliminate all government funding of health care/welfare and only to offer a tax break to the people that take care of their own special needs/children and parents.

Watching political suicide would be interesting indeed. Why haven't your precious republicans done this?

Could it be because they don't actually believe it?

I believe the Bible teaches that people should take care of their own children and parents and that it is ok/? for government to offer a tax break to people that take care of the children that have special needs.

Can you back up that last part with Scripture?

Neither Christians nor the government should mandate most things, but Christians should recommend Christian Principles because they are in obedience to God and the government should recommend Christian Principles for health reasons.

Except you've never been able to honestly prove that your "Christian Principles" are healthy.

 

[marieelana]

I may be coming late in this thread and I might have joined to say this, but I wanted to tell you about the fox study.

Yes, it did breed friendlier foxes, but there's a danger if you try breeding to select one trait. They ended up having genetic problems, eventually the study had been stopped because some generations were born with epilepsy and one fox even ate its whole litter of kits. This is shown to happen that if you breed one good thing but ignore the rest of the traits then you get a creature that is not balanced. The same has happened when trying to breed chickens for having big breasts(eventually they would be too big for their legs) or trying to breed high fertility females but neglecting low fertility males(you get roosters that do not know how to court a hen and so he will attack and kill her).

If this is any evidence it's that ethnic diversity prevents serious issues like this from happening. I hear that the Jewish community since they usually keep to themselves have a lot of genetic disorders- if they were to marry others outside their community into theirs that would actually bring in new genes and probably help diversify. Diversity is what keeps mankind healthy overall, if you ask me- not only for genetics, but for opening us up to different ideas and different cultures. Religion aside things like having our customs from our country, traditions and the like. Music, art, and culture is enriched from the coming together of different peoples.

Also you seem to confuse atheism with ethnicity. Ethnicity is more origin, religion is a belief that could be tied in with a culture. However, just because someone happens to come from let's say Germany, doesn't mean that they will be Christian or Atheist, their ethnicity is Germanic.

So yeah, my two cents on the thought of diversity.