Diversity of Baptists

twin1954

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Again, never said it wasn't.

Geez...

Tomato/Tomatoe, Potato/Potatoe. Covenant of Grace/Age of Grace.

God Bless

Till all are one.
Do you also hold to the Covenant of Grace being made between the Persons of the Godhead before the foundation of the world? You read Gill so I assumed that you do.
 
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YeshuaFan

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Do you also hold to the Covenant of Grace being made between the Persons of the Godhead before the foundation of the world? You read Gill so I assumed that you do.
yes, and also the Covenant of Works Adam was under before the fall!
 
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DeaconDean

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Do you also hold to the Covenant of Grace being made between the Persons of the Godhead before the foundation of the world? You read Gill so I assumed that you do.

Yes, I have...and you know it. How many times here do I quote him? :)

But, as much as I like Gill, as with anybody else, is John Gill 100% correct, 100% of the time?

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DeaconDean

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yes, and also the Covenant of Works Adam was under before the fall!

Here once again, where was the "Covenant of Grace" to the inhabitants of China in 3000 BC?

Where was the "Covenant of Grace" to the Gentiles "in general" prior to the Cross?

Fact is, and it is undisputable, God did in fact, deal with mankind differently prior to the Cross.

And it is also undisputable, that in the eyes of God, there are only two types of people...Jews, and Gentiles.

And prior to the Cross, Gentiles were in fact, cut off from God.

Now we can keep at this as long as you like, but, it still does not change these two facts.

Beginning in the OT, we see:

"“The Laws are in the strictest sense, the requirements of the God to whom Israel belongs because he has revealed himself in the exodus from Egypt and because in all future wars He will show Himself to be the God of His people. Thus the motive for keeping the law is simply that of obedience in so far as there is any conscious reflection on the question of motivation.”" (From an Old Testament perspective, William Gulbrod)

In fact, with regards to the Law, even A.W. Pink agrees, saying:

"The law was given to Israel not that they might be redeemed, but because they had been redeemed. The notion had been brought out of Egypt by the power of God under the blood of the slain lamb, itself the symbol and token of His grace. The Law added at Sinai as the necessary standard life for a ransomed people, a people now belonged to the Lord. …The Law was given that they now stood to God, of a salvation which was already theirs. The covenant of the Law did not supersede the covenant of promise, but set forth the kind of life which those who were redeemed by the covenant of promise were expected to live.”"

Secondly:

"“I am Jehovah your God, who has brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage." -Ex. 20:2”

In this verse, God says “your” and “you”. This is of particular interest because here God is addressing Israel/the Hebrews exclusively. Thus, the Laws are in the strictest sense the requirements of the God to Israel of whom they belong. Therefore the motive for keeping the Law is simply that the obedience in so far as there is any conscious reflection on the question of motivation.

The nature of the Law is in keeping with this in that:

A. Its demands are unconditional.

This may be seen in the style of the series of Laws, in their harsh severity, in their uncompromising formulation which weighs the act as such and not the background or special circumstances.

B. The form of the commands (or prohibitions) is negative.

Here is fresh confirmation that the theological setting of this Law is the covenant of election. For there is not commanded what establishes the relation to Yahweh, but prohibited what destroyed it.

C. This does not exclude the persuasive aspect of the commandments.

This may be seen in the way in which the proclamation of the Law seeks to make an impression on the will of the hearer and to make transgression inwardly impossible by a recollection of Yahweh’s acts. For this reason, there is reference to punishment for violation but not any special reward for fulfillment.

D. Moreover, for all its brevity, this Law is comprehensive.

Not merely the cultus but the whole of life stands under this law. The claim of this God to dominion leaves no neutral zone.

E. Finally, it belongs to the very essence of these laws that they should be addressed to all Israel.

Here, the individual is treated as a member of the people, and the neighbor to whom the Law refers is a compatriot. Similarly, punishment in cases of infringement is a matter for the whole body. Stoning as the prescribed mode of execution allows all to participate, (cf. Deut. 13:9) and when a murder is not cleared up the nearest community is under obligation to make atonement. (Deut. 21:1)

All this already indicates the aim of the Law. It is designed to bind the people and the individual to God. Hence the commandment “Thou shalt have no other God’s before me.” Therefore, the Law seeks to regulate the relationship of the covenant people and the individual to the covenant God, to regulate it on the basis of the election of this people by this God, and by the avoidance of things which might disrupt the relationship."

From my paper: "The Law and the Christian, A Modern Day look at Legalism"

Once again, when in regards to the "Torah", it was NOT addressed to Gentiles. In fact, it addressed the whole of life for who?

From the Prophets down, nearly 99.9% of God's dealing with man was in regards to Israel.

Were Gentiles required to come to the Temple and sacrifice?

God deal differently with Gentiles prior to the cross.

But, you guys wont see that. So what can I say.

So, before this gets blown out of proportion, I'm going to do the Godly thing.

I'm going to bow out gracefully, unsubscribe and say...

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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twin1954

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Here once again, where was the "Covenant of Grace" to the inhabitants of China in 3000 BC?

Where was the "Covenant of Grace" to the Gentiles "in general" prior to the Cross?

Fact is, and it is undisputable, God did in fact, deal with mankind differently prior to the Cross.

And it is also undisputable, that in the eyes of God, there are only two types of people...Jews, and Gentiles.

And prior to the Cross, Gentiles were in fact, cut off from God.

Now we can keep at this as long as you like, but, it still does not change these two facts.

Beginning in the OT, we see:

"“The Laws are in the strictest sense, the requirements of the God to whom Israel belongs because he has revealed himself in the exodus from Egypt and because in all future wars He will show Himself to be the God of His people. Thus the motive for keeping the law is simply that of obedience in so far as there is any conscious reflection on the question of motivation.”" (From an Old Testament perspective, William Gulbrod)

In fact, with regards to the Law, even A.W. Pink agrees, saying:

"The law was given to Israel not that they might be redeemed, but because they had been redeemed. The notion had been brought out of Egypt by the power of God under the blood of the slain lamb, itself the symbol and token of His grace. The Law added at Sinai as the necessary standard life for a ransomed people, a people now belonged to the Lord. …The Law was given that they now stood to God, of a salvation which was already theirs. The covenant of the Law did not supersede the covenant of promise, but set forth the kind of life which those who were redeemed by the covenant of promise were expected to live.”"

Secondly:

"“I am Jehovah your God, who has brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage." -Ex. 20:2”

In this verse, God says “your” and “you”. This is of particular interest because here God is addressing Israel/the Hebrews exclusively. Thus, the Laws are in the strictest sense the requirements of the God to Israel of whom they belong. Therefore the motive for keeping the Law is simply that the obedience in so far as there is any conscious reflection on the question of motivation.

The nature of the Law is in keeping with this in that:

A. Its demands are unconditional.

This may be seen in the style of the series of Laws, in their harsh severity, in their uncompromising formulation which weighs the act as such and not the background or special circumstances.

B. The form of the commands (or prohibitions) is negative.

Here is fresh confirmation that the theological setting of this Law is the covenant of election. For there is not commanded what establishes the relation to Yahweh, but prohibited what destroyed it.

C. This does not exclude the persuasive aspect of the commandments.

This may be seen in the way in which the proclamation of the Law seeks to make an impression on the will of the hearer and to make transgression inwardly impossible by a recollection of Yahweh’s acts. For this reason, there is reference to punishment for violation but not any special reward for fulfillment.

D. Moreover, for all its brevity, this Law is comprehensive.

Not merely the cultus but the whole of life stands under this law. The claim of this God to dominion leaves no neutral zone.

E. Finally, it belongs to the very essence of these laws that they should be addressed to all Israel.

Here, the individual is treated as a member of the people, and the neighbor to whom the Law refers is a compatriot. Similarly, punishment in cases of infringement is a matter for the whole body. Stoning as the prescribed mode of execution allows all to participate, (cf. Deut. 13:9) and when a murder is not cleared up the nearest community is under obligation to make atonement. (Deut. 21:1)

All this already indicates the aim of the Law. It is designed to bind the people and the individual to God. Hence the commandment “Thou shalt have no other God’s before me.” Therefore, the Law seeks to regulate the relationship of the covenant people and the individual to the covenant God, to regulate it on the basis of the election of this people by this God, and by the avoidance of things which might disrupt the relationship."

From my paper: "The Law and the Christian, A Modern Day look at Legalism"

Once again, when in regards to the "Torah", it was NOT addressed to Gentiles. In fact, it addressed the whole of life for who?

From the Prophets down, nearly 99.9% of God's dealing with man was in regards to Israel.

Were Gentiles required to come to the Temple and sacrifice?

God deal differently with Gentiles prior to the cross.

But, you guys wont see that. So what can I say.

So, before this gets blown out of proportion, I'm going to do the Godly thing.

I'm going to bow out gracefully, unsubscribe and say...

God Bless

Till all are one.
I warned you I was going to work on you. ;)
 
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YeshuaFan

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Here once again, where was the "Covenant of Grace" to the inhabitants of China in 3000 BC?

Where was the "Covenant of Grace" to the Gentiles "in general" prior to the Cross?

Fact is, and it is undisputable, God did in fact, deal with mankind differently prior to the Cross.

And it is also undisputable, that in the eyes of God, there are only two types of people...Jews, and Gentiles.

And prior to the Cross, Gentiles were in fact, cut off from God.

Now we can keep at this as long as you like, but, it still does not change these two facts.

Beginning in the OT, we see:

"“The Laws are in the strictest sense, the requirements of the God to whom Israel belongs because he has revealed himself in the exodus from Egypt and because in all future wars He will show Himself to be the God of His people. Thus the motive for keeping the law is simply that of obedience in so far as there is any conscious reflection on the question of motivation.”" (From an Old Testament perspective, William Gulbrod)

In fact, with regards to the Law, even A.W. Pink agrees, saying:

"The law was given to Israel not that they might be redeemed, but because they had been redeemed. The notion had been brought out of Egypt by the power of God under the blood of the slain lamb, itself the symbol and token of His grace. The Law added at Sinai as the necessary standard life for a ransomed people, a people now belonged to the Lord. …The Law was given that they now stood to God, of a salvation which was already theirs. The covenant of the Law did not supersede the covenant of promise, but set forth the kind of life which those who were redeemed by the covenant of promise were expected to live.”"

Secondly:

"“I am Jehovah your God, who has brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage." -Ex. 20:2”

In this verse, God says “your” and “you”. This is of particular interest because here God is addressing Israel/the Hebrews exclusively. Thus, the Laws are in the strictest sense the requirements of the God to Israel of whom they belong. Therefore the motive for keeping the Law is simply that the obedience in so far as there is any conscious reflection on the question of motivation.

The nature of the Law is in keeping with this in that:

A. Its demands are unconditional.

This may be seen in the style of the series of Laws, in their harsh severity, in their uncompromising formulation which weighs the act as such and not the background or special circumstances.

B. The form of the commands (or prohibitions) is negative.

Here is fresh confirmation that the theological setting of this Law is the covenant of election. For there is not commanded what establishes the relation to Yahweh, but prohibited what destroyed it.

C. This does not exclude the persuasive aspect of the commandments.

This may be seen in the way in which the proclamation of the Law seeks to make an impression on the will of the hearer and to make transgression inwardly impossible by a recollection of Yahweh’s acts. For this reason, there is reference to punishment for violation but not any special reward for fulfillment.

D. Moreover, for all its brevity, this Law is comprehensive.

Not merely the cultus but the whole of life stands under this law. The claim of this God to dominion leaves no neutral zone.

E. Finally, it belongs to the very essence of these laws that they should be addressed to all Israel.

Here, the individual is treated as a member of the people, and the neighbor to whom the Law refers is a compatriot. Similarly, punishment in cases of infringement is a matter for the whole body. Stoning as the prescribed mode of execution allows all to participate, (cf. Deut. 13:9) and when a murder is not cleared up the nearest community is under obligation to make atonement. (Deut. 21:1)

All this already indicates the aim of the Law. It is designed to bind the people and the individual to God. Hence the commandment “Thou shalt have no other God’s before me.” Therefore, the Law seeks to regulate the relationship of the covenant people and the individual to the covenant God, to regulate it on the basis of the election of this people by this God, and by the avoidance of things which might disrupt the relationship."

From my paper: "The Law and the Christian, A Modern Day look at Legalism"

Once again, when in regards to the "Torah", it was NOT addressed to Gentiles. In fact, it addressed the whole of life for who?

From the Prophets down, nearly 99.9% of God's dealing with man was in regards to Israel.

Were Gentiles required to come to the Temple and sacrifice?

God deal differently with Gentiles prior to the cross.

But, you guys wont see that. So what can I say.

So, before this gets blown out of proportion, I'm going to do the Godly thing.

I'm going to bow out gracefully, unsubscribe and say...

God Bless

Till all are one.
Since Adam until now, all and any saved were due to the Cross of Christ, and by the provisions of the BC being applied towards them by God!
 
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DeaconDean

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I had a response, but what good would it do?

I deleted it anyhow.

Quote me all you wish, I will NOT RESPOND!

But what do I know, you guys have me labled anyway, so what the hay.

I'm outta here.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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twin1954

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I had a response, but what good would it do?

I deleted it anyhow.

Quote me all you wish, I will NOT RESPOND!

But what do I know, you guys have me labled anyway, so what the hay.

I'm outta here.

God Bless

Till all are one.
I don’t have you labeled at all. Except as my good friend and brother.
 
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Ecclesiastian

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I grew up Southern Baptist and that's still the team I usually root for as far as Baptists go. I'm currently part of an Independent Baptist Church, but the pastor is a former Southern Baptist so the church seems more like a Southern Baptist church. I'm not a fan of most of the other Independent Baptist churches and ministers I've stumbled across. Too much emphasis on things like using the KJV, and IB ministers often tend to be more focused on the wrath of God than His Gospel.
 
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Ttalkkugjil

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As with every Christian denomination, faith, and/or movement (or any other name that may apply), the Baptist subdivision has a great many diversities.

Baptists are traditionally Calvinist, and derive their name from believer's baptism. Beyond that, however, there is often a great diversity in individual beliefs that has led to a multitude of different denominations that fall under the Baptist banner.

Southern Baptists
Independent Baptists
Free Will Baptists
Full Gospel Baptists
Holiness Baptists
Primitive Baptists
Reformed Baptists
United Baptists
American Baptists

Of course, these aren't all of them. And even for the ones I have mentioned have their own individual sects underneath.

Which kind of Baptist are you?

Fellowship Baptist, though I currently attend a Korean Baptist church.
 
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