• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Dissecting one of Tolkien's quotes

2PhiloVoid

Critically Copernican
Site Supporter
Oct 28, 2006
24,718
11,553
Space Mountain!
✟1,364,282.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Teaching that it was correct?

Can you name the textbooks that indicated this?

Right - His rejected it pretty much when it was originally published.

Right.

So what do you think about Randy misrepresenting his textbook as I demonstrated? Regarding intellectual honesty, why do you suppose so many creationists engage in so much intellectual DIShonesty? Plagiarism, repetition of false claims,misrepresentation, etc.

While I almost couldn't care less about the extent to which Haeckel's drawings have been used since evolution draws upon a vast number of scientific resources other than Haeckel's ideas, here are some sources regarding the past usage of Haeckel's drawings in some biology textbooks. From what I can tell, much of the possible 'miscontruel' of Haeckel ended in the 1990s or just shortly into the 2000s

***************************************
Analyses of various biology textbooks

1) http://www.discovery.org/a/3935/

2) Catley, K. M., & Novick, L. R. (2008). Seeing the wood for the trees: an analysis of evolutionary diagrams in biology textbooks. BioScience, 58(10), 976-987.

3) Luskin, C. Biology Textbooks Misuse Embryology to Argue for Evolution.

4) Huang, H. F. (2017). Haeckel's Embryos: Images, Evolution, and Fraud. [no direct link]
****************************************
Criticism of the above type of analyses

5) Haeckel, E. Haeckel’S Embryos.

6) Gishlick, A. D. (2002). Icons of evolution? Why much of what Jonathan Wells writes about evolution is wrong. The Quarterly Review of Biology.

7) Pickett, K. M., Wenzel, J. W., & Rissing, S. W. (2005). Iconoclasts of evolution: Haeckel, Behe, Wells & the ontogeny of a fraud. The American Biology Teacher, 67(5), 275-282. [no direct link]
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

tas8831

Well-Known Member
May 5, 2017
5,611
3,999
56
Northeast
✟101,040.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
While I almost couldn't care less about the extent to which Haeckel's drawings have been used since evolution draws upon a vast number of scientific resources other than Haeckel's ideas, here are some sources regarding the past usage of Haeckel's drawings in some biology textbooks. From what I can tell, much of the possible 'miscontruel' of Haeckel ended in the 1990s or just shortly into the 2000s

***************************************
Analyses of various biology textbooks

1) http://www.discovery.org/a/3935/

2) Catley, K. M., & Novick, L. R. (2008). Seeing the wood for the trees: an analysis of evolutionary diagrams in biology textbooks. BioScience, 58(10), 976-987.

3) Luskin, C. Biology Textbooks Misuse Embryology to Argue for Evolution.

4) Huang, H. F. (2017). Haeckel's Embryos: Images, Evolution, and Fraud. [no direct link]
****************************************
Criticism of the above type of analyses

5) Haeckel, E. Haeckel’S Embryos.

6) Gishlick, A. D. (2002). Icons of evolution? Why much of what Jonathan Wells writes about evolution is wrong. The Quarterly Review of Biology.

7) Pickett, K. M., Wenzel, J. W., & Rissing, S. W. (2005). Iconoclasts of evolution: Haeckel, Behe, Wells & the ontogeny of a fraud. The American Biology Teacher, 67(5), 275-282. [no direct link]

Thanks.

Of note, we can find yet another clear cut example of Wells outright lying to his target audience:

"In the introduction to Icons, Wells states
that he first became aware of the problems
in evolutionary theory when he was “fin-
ishing his Ph.D. in cell and developmental
biology” (Wells, 2000:xi). He claims that he
knew that the drawings of embryos presented
in textbooks were false because he was a
developmental biologist. Shortly thereafter, he
claims, his observation was confirmed by
other scientists. Before that seminal event, he
says, “I believed almost everything I read in
my textbooks” (Wells, 2000:xi). This state-
ment is inconsistent with other claims of Wells’s. According to statements made by Wells in a sermon on a Unification Church website (http://www.tparents.org/library/unifi-
cation/talks/wells/DARWIN.htm), he went to
graduate school with the specific intent of
attacking evolution: “Father’s words, my stud-
ies, and my prayers convinced me that I should
devote my life to destroying Darwinism” and
he believed that its weakest point was devel-
opmental biology."​


Wells was not convinced that 'Darwin was wrong' by his studies, he went in "knowing" Darwin was wrong because Father Moon indoctrinated him to believe as much.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

2PhiloVoid

Critically Copernican
Site Supporter
Oct 28, 2006
24,718
11,553
Space Mountain!
✟1,364,282.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Thanks.

Of note, we can find yet another clear cut example of Wells outright lying to his target audience:

"In the introduction to Icons, Wells states
that he first became aware of the problems
in evolutionary theory when he was “fin-
ishing his Ph.D. in cell and developmental
biology” (Wells, 2000:xi). He claims that he
knew that the drawings of embryos presented
in textbooks were false because he was a
developmental biologist. Shortly thereafter, he
claims, his observation was confirmed by
other scientists. Before that seminal event, he
says, “I believed almost everything I read in
my textbooks” (Wells, 2000:xi). This state-
ment is inconsistent with other claims of Wells’s. According to statements made by Wells in a sermon on a Unification Church website (http://www.tparents.org/library/unifi-
cation/talks/wells/DARWIN.htm), he went to
graduate school with the specific intent of
attacking evolution: “Father’s words, my stud-
ies, and my prayers convinced me that I should
devote my life to destroying Darwinism” and
he believed that its weakest point was devel-
opmental biology."​


Wells was not convinced that 'Darwin was wrong; by his studies, he went in "knowing" Darwin was wrong because Father Moon indoctrinated him to believe as much.

Wells is a Moonie, so, what can I say? :dontcare:
 
  • Like
Reactions: tas8831
Upvote 0