Dispensationalists

[R.J.S]

Is a posttribulational rapture consistent with dispensationalism? What are your thoughts? FYI: Robert Chapman was posttribulational. If you do not know who he is then it is about time that you do.

 

[Tractor1]

Is a posttribulational rapture consistent with dispensationalism? What are your thoughts? FYI: Robert Chapman was posttribulational. If you do not know who he is then it is about time that you do.

Not in my opinion. Dispensationalism sees a distinction between Israel and the Church, and finds no purpose for It's inclusion in the Tribulation.

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[R.J.S]

Not in my opinion. Dispensationalism sees a distinction between Israel and the Church, and finds no purpose for It's inclusion in the Tribulation.

In Christ,
Tracey

But does an Israel-chuch distinction exclude its being in the tribulation?

 

[Tractor1]

But does an Israel-chuch distinction exclude its being in the tribulation?

It would seem as the distinction between Israel and the Church becomes clearer the necessity for a pretribulational removal would also. God is dealing with two programs for two distinct groups (Israel and the Church). During the tribulation (Jacob's trouble) God's focus returns to Israel in preperation for Messiah's coming. While it's possible for God to deal with both groups simultaneously, it's also logical that He'd first complete His dealings with the Church.

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[drstevej]

Classic dispensationalists see the tribulation as a time of preparation for Israel to repent and then receive the promised MK. They see the gap between the first 69 weeks of Daniel and the 70th week as the church age.

The 70th week returns focus to Israel. They see Ezekiel 37 (Vision of the dry bones) as Israel gathering in the land in unbelief (the bones coming together but no life) and then a revival during the tribulation. With the chastening complete they embrace their Messiah who reigns on the throne of David.

 

[R.J.S]

The 70th week returns focus to Israel.

But does that necessitate the church being removed from the earth?

 

[drstevej]

But does that necessitate the church being removed from the earth?

Nope, but it does make sense to me.

 

[Dispy]

Classic dispensationalists see the tribulation as a time of preparation for Israel to repent and then receive the promised MK. They see the gap between the first 69 weeks of Daniel and the 70th week as the church age.

The 70th week returns focus to Israel. They see Ezekiel 37 (Vision of the dry bones) as Israel gathering in the land in unbelief (the bones coming together but no life) and then a revival during the tribulation. With the chastening complete they embrace their Messiah who reigns on the throne of David.

Dispy responds:
I consider myself a non-denominational dispensationalist of the Acts 2/mid-Acts variety. So I really don't know if you consider me a "Classic dispensationalist" or not.

Being you spoke of the gap between the first 69 weeks of Daniel and the 70th week as the church age, I find the following quite interesting when I compare Isaiah 61:1-2 with Luke 4:17-21:

Isaiah 61
1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Luke 4
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

You will notice in Luke 4, Jesus is quoting Isaiah 61:1,2 almost in its entirety. When you read the account in Luke 4, pay particular notice where Jesus stopped reading Isaiah 61, and then closed the book.

Had Jesus read on through "and the day of vengeance of our God," He would not have been able to say, as He did in vs 21, "...This day is this scripture fulfilled in you ears." That particular phrase happens to be the Tribulation period, and it hadn't started yet when Jesus spoke those words in Luke 4.

Even today, it is still the "acceptable year of the LORD". However, "the day of vengeance of our God" (the Tribulation) has not yet been fulfilled. It still awaits future fulfillment.

Yes, it did start in Acts 2:15-20, but was interrupted by this dispensation of grace. This dispensation of grace is a (parenthetical) period within the dispensation of the Law which began with Moses and was interrupted when God set the nation of Israel aside, "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Rms11:25), which is the rapture of the Chruch, the Body of Christ.

Even though the dispensation of grace cannot be found in prophesy, I can look back and see a place where it fits in.

The rapture of the Chruch, the Body of Christ, is not found in OT prophesy and is part of the "MYSTERY that was revealed to Paul. Therefore, in order that the Bible not contradict itself, It must take place prior to the resumption of the Tribulation, as the Body of Christ will not go through the Tribulation, as Paul told the believers in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-9.

 

[Jerrysch]

Dispy responds:
I consider myself a non-denominational dispensationalist of the Acts 2/mid-Acts variety. So I really don't know if you consider me a "Classic dispensationalist" or not.

Being you spoke of the gap between the first 69 weeks of Daniel and the 70th week as the church age, I find the following quite interesting when I compare Isaiah 61:1-2 with Luke 4:17-21:

Isaiah 61
1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Luke 4
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

You will notice in Luke 4, Jesus is quoting Isaiah 61:1,2 almost in its entirety. When you read the account in Luke 4, pay particular notice where Jesus stopped reading Isaiah 61, and then closed the book.

Had Jesus read on through "and the day of vengeance of our God," He would not have been able to say, as He did in vs 21, "...This day is this scripture fulfilled in you ears." That particular phrase happens to be the Tribulation period, and it hadn't started yet when Jesus spoke those words in Luke 4.

Even today, it is still the "acceptable year of the LORD". However, "the day of vengeance of our God" (the Tribulation) has not yet been fulfilled. It still awaits future fulfillment.

Yes, it did start in Acts 2:15-20, but was interrupted by this dispensation of grace. This dispensation of grace is a (parenthetical) period within the dispensation of the Law which began with Moses and was interrupted when God set the nation of Israel aside, "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Rms11:25), which is the rapture of the Chruch, the Body of Christ.

Even though the dispensation of grace cannot be found in prophesy, I can look back and see a place where it fits in.

The rapture of the Chruch, the Body of Christ, is not found in OT prophesy and is part of the "MYSTERY that was revealed to Paul. Therefore, in order that the Bible not contradict itself, It must take place prior to the resumption of the Tribulation, as the Body of Christ will not go through the Tribulation, as Paul told the believers in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-9.

Good post, the fact that the church does not appear after Rev 4 also indicates that something has transpired in regards to it.