Dispensationalism

[Codger]

John Nelson Darby (18 November 1800 – 29 April 1882) was an Anglo- Irish evangelist, and an influential figure among the original Plymouth Brethren. He is considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism.
Wikipedia

Dispensationalism was invented in the late 1800's. Prior to this it did not exist. Dispensationalism was a doctrine that believed that most prophesy was yet unfulfilled and was futuristic. (This is beyond the idea that time was divided into seven dispensations) This was a modification of Historical Premillennialism, which itself dates back to Papius who lived in the late first or early second century. Darby's revised historical Premillennialism is now labeled "Dispensational Premillennialism."

And so over the years especially after the formation of today's political Israel this doctrine has flourished and this is their main proof. The doctrine is very sensational, exciting, and makes a great hobby. Every day you can read the newspapers and report on your clever observations and speculations of how prophesy is being fulfilled in our day.

Scofield, Lindsay, La Haye, and of course Dallas Theological Seminary did much to perpetuate this doctrine. I've been in the Church since 1954 and about 30+ years was under dispensationalism - which I rejected because it is illogical and nonsensical.

On sites like this we are bombarded will all kinds of speculations based on the Futuristic fulfillment of scriptures that have long been fulfilled. But looking back over the years since the invention of Dispensationalism what has actually come to pass like they have been teaching over these many years. I will write down some duds that I remember.

Lindsey (LGPE) said that Nasser would become the leader of the Arab world - wrong - he was assinated. He just got done telling the rules in his book of a true prophet of God. His own words condemned him of being a false prophet.

In the mid 50's we constantly heard that Israel would be invaded by Russia according to Ezekiel 38 - 39. Never happened - never will because this passage was fulfilled in the time of the Maccabees.

We were told that Jesus said that this generation will not pass away until all be fulfilled. So the starting date was the formation of the new Nation of Israel. This would bring us to 1988. Nothing happened.

Next we were told that they had gotten the starting date wrong. The clock began with the liberation of Jerusalem in 1967. So add a generation to this which is 40 years according to Dispensationalists - this brings us to 2007. 2007 came and went and nothing happened. I wonder what the new speculation is today? Has any one heard the latest? Of course Jesus' words came to pass at the fall of Jerusalem - so it is already fulfilled.

The antichrist is coming - "The" antichrist that John spoke of is long dead and buried. But Dispensationalists are missing the point. There have been many antichrists even in our day and probably more to come. It is a reoccurring principle just like tribulation. Its been all through history not just one coming occasion.

And so on these sites we see daily endless speculations of prophesies long fulfilled about to be fulfilled in our day. But that is all they are - empty speculations based on errant interpretations of the Bible. Once you accept the idea that prophesy is for our day no amount of Hermanutics, word studies, or Bible study will put you back on the right path; and when God starts to work out his plans for a great harvest Dispensationalists will be lost because all of their speculations will not come to pass. Why did Israel in Jesus' day miss the time of their visitation? Simple - because they had unrealistic expectations of the Messiah.

What parts of Dispensational prophesy has actually come to pass in your lifetime?

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Hosea 6


1Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. 2After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.


Micah 5:
3 Therefore Israel will be abandoned
until the time when she who is in labor gives birth
and the rest of his brothers return
to join the Israelites.


Romans 11:
11Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!
...
25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."


Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[Hentenza]

Thread moved to Dispensationalism from Eschatology

 

[Biblewriter]

John Nelson Darby (18 November 1800 – 29 April 1882) was an Anglo- Irish evangelist, and an influential figure among the original Plymouth Brethren. He is considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism.
Wikipedia

Dispensationalism was invented in the late 1800's. Prior to this it did not exist. Dispensationalism was a doctrine that believed that most prophesy was yet unfulfilled and was futuristic. (This is beyond the idea that time was divided into seven dispensations) This was a modification of Historical Premillennialism, which itself dates back to Papius who lived in the late first or early second century. Darby's revised historical Premillennialism is now labeled "Dispensational Premillennialism."

And so over the years especially after the formation of today's political Israel this doctrine has flourished and this is their main proof. The doctrine is very sensational, exciting, and makes a great hobby. Every day you can read the newspapers and report on your clever observations and speculations of how prophesy is being fulfilled in our day.

Scofield, Lindsay, La Haye, and of course Dallas Theological Seminary did much to perpetuate this doctrine. I've been in the Church since 1954 and about 30+ years was under dispensationalism - which I rejected because it is illogical and nonsensical.

On sites like this we are bombarded will all kinds of speculations based on the Futuristic fulfillment of scriptures that have long been fulfilled. But looking back over the years since the invention of Dispensationalism what has actually come to pass like they have been teaching over these many years. I will write down some duds that I remember.

Lindsey (LGPE) said that Nasser would become the leader of the Arab world - wrong - he was assinated. He just got done telling the rules in his book of a true prophet of God. His own words condemned him of being a false prophet.

In the mid 50's we constantly heard that Israel would be invaded by Russia according to Ezekiel 38 - 39. Never happened - never will because this passage was fulfilled in the time of the Maccabees.

We were told that Jesus said that this generation will not pass away until all be fulfilled. So the starting date was the formation of the new Nation of Israel. This would bring us to 1988. Nothing happened.

Next we were told that they had gotten the starting date wrong. The clock began with the liberation of Jerusalem in 1967. So add a generation to this which is 40 years according to Dispensationalists - this brings us to 2007. 2007 came and went and nothing happened. I wonder what the new speculation is today? Has any one heard the latest? Of course Jesus' words came to pass at the fall of Jerusalem - so it is already fulfilled.

The antichrist is coming - "The" antichrist that John spoke of is long dead and buried. But Dispensationalists are missing the point. There have been many antichrists even in our day and probably more to come. It is a reoccurring principle just like tribulation. Its been all through history not just one coming occasion.

And so on these sites we see daily endless speculations of prophesies long fulfilled about to be fulfilled in our day. But that is all they are - empty speculations based on errant interpretations of the Bible. Once you accept the idea that prophesy is for our day no amount of Hermanutics, word studies, or Bible study will put you back on the right path; and when God starts to work out his plans for a great harvest Dispensationalists will be lost because all of their speculations will not come to pass. Why did Israel in Jesus' day miss the time of their visitation? Simple - because they had unrealistic expectations of the Messiah.

What parts of Dispensational prophesy has actually come to pass in your lifetime?

You are quite correct that dispensationalism has been plagued with almost endless speculation. This is very useful to sensationalists, and has been used to the hilt.

But you are throwing out the baby with the bath water. Just because a doctrine has been misapplied and misused does not mean it is erroneous. The original dispensastionalists (such as John Nelson Darby, William Kelly, and their associates) did not speculate in this way, and neithjer do today's responsible dispensationalists.

According to classicaal dispensational doctrine, there was only one prophetic event that would take place before the pre-tribulation rapture. That was the return of the Jews to their homeland, which happened in the 1940's.

According to classical dispensationalism, ALL the rest of Bible prophecy will take place after the rapture, so no classical dispensationalist looks for the fulfillment of any prophecy in the current news.

Classical dispensationalism was modified in the early 20th century by Dwight Pentecost, and most of the speculation about coming events has come from the Pentecost (not Pentecostal) camp.

But as for a future fulfillment of prophecy, there are an host of Old Testament prophecies which have unquestionably not been fulfilled. All the claims that all or even most of them were fulfilled in the past are based on application of general ideas contained in these prophecies without attention being paid to the fine details of their statements.

One example is the prophecy about the path the Assyrian will follow when he invades Judea. This is simply assumed to be the path that Sennacherib followed when he attacked Hezekiah. But there are few details of ancient history more fully documented than Sennacherib's campaign against Hezekiah. We do not just have medieval copies of ancient documents about this caampaign. We have the ancient documents themselves, pressed into clay and baked into pottery. And we do not just have a few such documents. Scholars have found seven of them. And the path described in Isaiah 10:28-32 was most definitely not the path that Sennacherib followed.

There are many such highly detailed and explicitly worded prophecies that most unquestionably have not been fulfilled. Either the prophecies were wrong or they will be fulfilled in the future. And if the prophecies were wrong, then either the books that contained them were not the word of God or else God is a liar. The only one of these choices that is available to a Godly Christian is that these prophecies will be fulfilled in the future.

This is why dispensationalists are so immovable in their beliefs. because they are based on simple belief that the Bible is wholly reliable, and that it means exactly what it says.

 

[Codger]

Hosea 6

1Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. 2After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Hosea lived in 784 to 697BC. This was a call both to repentance and also in metaphor to ancient Israel which was reinacted literally in the life of Jesus. What does this have to do with modern Israel?

Micah 5:
3 Therefore Israel will be abandoned
until the time when she who is in labor gives birth
and the rest of his brothers return to join the Israelites.

This chapter is highly Messianic. it means that Israel will be abandoned to its enemies (Romans) until the Messiah is born. It was he who set the captives free in the acceptable year of the Lord - the 29th Jubilee in the year 29.

What does this have to do with modern Israel?

Romans 11:
11Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!

God is still working among the Jews and more and more of them are coming into the Kingdom. And as the pressure ramps up I am expecting a landslide one of these days.

25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."

Yep fulfilled before the fall of Jerusalem, but like I said the Gospel of the Kingdom will be ongoing until the end of time. The Disciples and Apostles believed that time would not exist beyond the destruction of Israel. John must have been shocked when Jesus didn't come after the fall and destroy the enemy with the brightness of his coming (Second Coming as spoken by Peter and others.) Jesus said he didn't know the hour of his return and the father still has not sent his Son a second time. Not a big problem here.

God can save the Jews without the existance of todays Israel. So what has this to do with todays Israel?

Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Wonderful prophesy of the work and accomplishments of Jesus in his day. What does this have to do with Modern Israel? Obviously all Jews can enter the New Covenant established by Jesus in his day in ancient Israel.

 

[Biblewriter]

Hosea lived in 784 to 697BC. This was a call both to repentance and also in metaphor to ancient Israel which was reinacted literally in the life of Jesus. What does this have to do with modern Israel?

This is the standard excuse of non-dispensationalists for prophecy that they cannot explain any other way. To claim it was only a metaphor will get you out of any problem.

This chapter is highly Messianic. it means that Israel will be abandoned to its enemies (Romans) until the Messiah is born. It was he who set the captives free in the acceptable year of the Lord - the 29th Jubilee in the year 29. What does this have to do with modern Israel?

It says "the rest of his brethren." That is a reference to the many other scriptures that very explicitly say that in a future day all Israelis will be returned to their land, the rebels will be purged out from among them, and then all the rest will be converted. I am not quoting these scriptures again here, because I have already posted them again and again.

God is still working among the Jews and more and more of them are coming into the Kingdom. And as the pressure ramps up I am expecting a landslide one of these days.

You are forgetting that when Messiah comes, they will be surprised to see the wounds in his hands.

Yep fulfilled before the fall of Jerusalem, but like I said the Gospel of the Kingdom will be ongoing until the end of time. The Disciples and Apostles believed that time would not exist beyond the destruction of Israel. John must have been shocked when Jesus didn't come after the fall and destroy the enemy with the brightness of his coming (Second Coming as spoken by Peter and others.) Jesus said he didn't know the hour of his return and the father still has not sent his Son a second time. Not a big problem here.

You are ignoring the detailed wording of the prophecy HisdaughterJen. There is a very distinct "until" in the partial hardening of Israel. that "until" is "until the full number of the gentiles is come in." It is abundantly clear from history that there was no recovery from that partial hardening even to this day. So this was unquestionably not fulfilled before the tall of Jerusalem.

God can save the Jews without the existance of todays Israel. So what has this to do with todays Israel?

But the promises were not only their salvation, but their return to their land. This can happen only in that location, and in no other place.

Wonderful prophesy of the work and accomplishments of Jesus in his day. What does this have to do with Modern Israel? Obviously all Jews can enter the New Covenant established by Jesus in his day in ancient Israel.

"Everlasting righteousness has not even yet been brought in, except for a few. The vision refers to this vision, but much prophecy still remains to be sealed up. And the most Holy has not yet been anointed, for "now we see not yet all things put under him."(Hebrews 2:8)

 

[Hentenza]

This is the standard excuse of non-dispensationalists for prophecy that they cannot explain any other way. To claim it was only a metaphor will get you out of any problem.

That is the crux. If one accepts that fulfilled prophesy was fulfilled literally then one has to accept that future prophesy will be fulfilled literally also. To call unfulfilled prophesy allegory or metaphor makes for an inconsistent hermeneutics.

 

[anthony55]

All the scripture, the OT finds its all in all in the Lord Jesus Christ, for it was all about him, the law, the prophets, and ect..

Lk 24:


44And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

All that the OT spake of was merely typical, its people, its promises, its offerings, land and etc and found its fulfillment in Christ !

All things in the OT has a distinct finality in the NT, that is days, seasons, peoples, practices, and custom's, all was typological and anticipatory in nature:

col 2:


16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


None of such are valid in our day and time, for Jesus Christ was the end of all.

All of the OT writings and prophecies have found their exclusive fulfillment in the First Advent of Christ, when He Tabernacled amongst men, He ended all the shadows and types, and they are all found in His appearance, and shall never have need of reconstruction or re instituted as some falsely claim.

All of the previous advantages by national israel have been replaced and cannot be rebuilt, for that would be counterproductive and contrary to the Eternal Purpose of God in Christ eph 3:


9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:


The Tabernacle and Temple have been forever realized in Christ and His church, His body..

eph 2:21

In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

1 cor 3:

16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

And you have many deceived dispensationalist teaching a return to a physical literal temple, in total disregard to the temple that is founded upon the work of Christ and His cross.

Heb 9:11

But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Many say God is pleased to revert back from the more perfect, to that which is made with hands of men again !!

The Tabernacle was also realized in Jesus Christ, in His incarnation, for He came and Tabernacled amongst men Jn 1:

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt [Tabernacled] among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The Priesthood has been now realized in Jesus Christ and His church !

rev 1:


5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

1 pet 2:

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

The covenant privileges that national israel had , have served its purpose, and was discarded by the Lord, and replaced with the covenant community produced by the work and blood of Christ. This is the mystery that has been revealed, all things are done and accomplished in Christ.

To teach that things will revert back to a past age, is a disrespect, and disregard for the accomplishments of Jesus Christ, for it is a false message all together, and has no biblical support, but wild imagination.

 

[Hentenza]

All the scripture, the OT finds its all in all in the Lord Jesus Christ, for it was all about him, the law, the prophets, and ect..

To spiritualize scripture is to make God's word subjective to the whims of man just as you have proven by your post.

 

[Cody2]

2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." KJV

Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth by C.I. Scofield

 

[anthony55]

To spiritualize scripture is to make God's word subjective to the whims of man just as you have proven by your post.

You are ignoring the accomplishments of Christ, thats not good.

 

[anthony55]

2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." KJV

Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth by C.I. Scofield

Have you fallen into that terrible deception of dispensationalism ? No bit of study can help you, only a new birth.

2 tim 3:7

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Hentenza]

You are ignoring the accomplishments of Christ, thats not good.

Christ's accomplishments are literal not allegorical. All future Christ's accomplishments are likewise literal not allegorical.

 

[Cody2]

Have you fallen into that terrible deception of dispensationalism ? No bit of study can help you, only a new birth.

2 tim 3:7

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I have trusted Jesus Christ alone to save me, therefore I have had the new birth. I suggest you turn from you false doctrine, Calvinism.

 

[anthony55]

Christ's accomplishments are literal not allegorical. All future Christ's accomplishments are likewise literal not allegorical.

It appears to me, you disregard Christ accomplishments.

 

[Hentenza]

It appears to me, you disregard Christ accomplishments.

It "appears" to you because you hold an inconsistent and subjective hermeneutic. Christ's accomplishments have ALL been literal, hence, all future accomplishments will also be literal. Those that allegorize or spiritualize Christ's future literal accomplishments are indeed disregarding His accomplishments.

 

[anthony55]

It "appears" to you because you hold an inconsistent and subjective hermeneutic. Christ's accomplishments have ALL been literal, hence, all future accomplishments will also be literal. Those that allegorize or spiritualize Christ's future literal accomplishments are indeed disregarding His accomplishments.

you are deceived.

 

[Biblewriter]

All the scripture, the OT finds its all in all in the Lord Jesus Christ, for it was all about him, the law, the prophets, and ect..

Lk 24:


44And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

All that the OT spake of was merely typical, its people, its promises, its offerings, land and etc and found its fulfillment in Christ !

All things in the OT has a distinct finality in the NT, that is days, seasons, peoples, practices, and custom's, all was typological and anticipatory in nature:

col 2:


16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


None of such are valid in our day and time, for Jesus Christ was the end of all.

All of the OT writings and prophecies have found their exclusive fulfillment in the First Advent of Christ, when He Tabernacled amongst men, He ended all the shadows and types, and they are all found in His appearance, and shall never have need of reconstruction or re instituted as some falsely claim.

Here you deny the explicit statement of New Testament Scripture.

"...the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow." (1 Peter 1 9-11)
​

Here the New Testament explicitly states that the Old Testament prophecies included both the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow. The glory that was prophesied of the Messiah included many explicitly stated earthly details which most unquestionably have not been fulfilled.

All of the previous advantages by national israel have been replaced and cannot be rebuilt, for that would be counterproductive and contrary to the Eternal Purpose of God in Christ eph 3:


9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:


The Tabernacle and Temple have been forever realized in Christ and His church, His body..

eph 2:21

In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

1 cor 3:

16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

And you have many deceived dispensationalist teaching a return to a physical literal temple, in total disregard to the temple that is founded upon the work of Christ and His cross.

Heb 9:11

But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Many say God is pleased to revert back from the more perfect, to that which is made with hands of men again !!

The Tabernacle was also realized in Jesus Christ, in His incarnation, for He came and Tabernacled amongst men Jn 1:

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt [Tabernacled] among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The Priesthood has been now realized in Jesus Christ and His church !

rev 1:


5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

1 pet 2:

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

The covenant privileges that national israel had , have served its purpose, and was discarded by the Lord, and replaced with the covenant community produced by the work and blood of Christ. This is the mystery that has been revealed, all things are done and accomplished in Christ.

To teach that things will revert back to a past age, is a disrespect, and disregard for the accomplishments of Jesus Christ, for it is a false message all together, and has no biblical support, but wild imagination.

This is again completely and absolutely incorrect. To claim that there is no Biblical support for something that the Bible very explicitly states goes beyond simple stubbornness to outright insanity.

In past discussions with you, numerous individuals among us have repeatedly quoted numerous scriptures that very explicitly state the very opposite to what you are claiming. You have not answered even one of these scriptures, because you cannot. Instead, you simply make a totally unprovable assertion that all these prophecies were only typical.

As I have repeatedly already observed, your problem is that you are ascribing greater authority to your interpretation of the meanings of a few scriptures than to the explicit statements of a great many other scriptures.

Now you are making a false accusation that dispensationalists disregard Christ's accomplishments.

This is not only false, it is insane. Dispensationalists value the accomplishments of Christ above all else. But they also value the accomplishments that He has explicitly stated He will also make in the future. These accomplishments you willfully disregard. So, even as in your past false accusations, what you are accusing others of doing is exactly what you yourself are doing.

 

[WaltonM]

Dispensationalists value the accomplishments of Christ above all else.

Yep, you got that right. I've known more than a few dispensationalists in my day and they live Christ-centered lives. There are a lot of them who do the work of evangelizing and missions. I know Swindoll and Vernon McGee are dispensationalists...they are good preachers and speakers...

 

[anthony55]

For prophecies and promises of God to His People, for them to all be fulfilled in Christ, in a Spiritual and Heavenly manner and realm, by no means take away from the fact that they are fulfilled literally in Christ. For Christ and his kingdom are both spiritual and heavenly, opposed to natural and earthly.

The Land Abraham, Issac and Jacob sought as a result of Gods promise of the everlasting possession of Canaan gen 17:

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.


6And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

It was a Spiritual and Heavenly Possession they looked for heb 11:


8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Lol, they were not as a result of the promise in gen 17:8 looking for literal , natural, plot of land in the middle east, for that is clear by vs 10, looking for a city whose builder and maker is God, which hath foundations i.e

rev 21:14

And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

And secondly:

The text specifically states that they were not looking for a plot of land, what can be plainer than this:

15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.​

And thirdly, it was heavenly heb 11:

16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

So we have a classic example, of that which was promised Land of Canaan as a everlasting possession vs 8, finding its fulfillment and literally, in the spiritual and heavenly.

Don't be fooled by the devil, a promise of God can be fulfilled spiritually and heavenly, and yet be literally.

The dispensationalist just use that as a excuse for their scripture wresting.