Dispensational Doctrine before the year 200

Truth7t7

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I was not in the least hesitant. I was simply refusing to yield to your demands that I post again what I had already posted, and even explicitly told you where I posted it. I finally posted it again in a place and way where your cavils would be forbidden. And if you are unable to understand the clear, plain English of my posted, clearly demonstrating why this was actually a pre trib statement, that is your problem.
The fact of the matter is the QUOTE of Iranaeus below, isn't even close to suggesting a pre-trib rapture.

Writer you can look for straw, but there isn't any to grab.

You were so confident of your citation you took it to the Futurist safehouse, so no opposition could be posted.

Truth7t7 said:
Finally found one of your claims the ECF taught a pre-trib rapture below?

Iranaeus clearly states "The Last Contest Is The Tribulation" when the Church goes through this they will overcome and be caught up, just as all Ahmillenialist believe.

No wonder you were hesitant in providing this claim, Iranaeus believed just as I do.

Writer how far will one go, bending and twisting trying desperately to make a square block fit in a round hole?

Biblewriter Posted: Here we find a clear teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture.

“Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons ‘as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance—in fact, as nothing;’ so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, ‘There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.’ For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.” (“Against Heresies”, Book V, chapter 29, paragraph 1, From “Ante-Nicean Fathers,” ed. Alexander Roberts, D.D. and James Donaldson, D.D., Edinburgh, 1884.)
 
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Biblewriter

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The fact of the matter is the QUOTE of Iranaeus below, isn't even close to suggesting a pre-trib rapture.

Writer you can look for straw, but there isn't any to grab.

You were so confident of your citation you took it to the Futurist safehouse, so no opposition could be posted.

Truth7t7 said:
Finally found one of your claims the ECF taught a pre-trib rapture below?

Iranaeus clearly states "The Last Contest Is The Tribulation" when the Church goes through this they will overcome and be caught up, just as all Ahmillenialist believe.

No wonder you were hesitant in providing this claim, Iranaeus believed just as I do.

Writer how far will one go, bending and twisting trying desperately to make a square block fit in a round hole?

Biblewriter Posted: Here we find a clear teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture.

“Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons ‘as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance—in fact, as nothing;’ so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, ‘There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.’ For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.” (“Against Heresies”, Book V, chapter 29, paragraph 1, From “Ante-Nicean Fathers,” ed. Alexander Roberts, D.D. and James Donaldson, D.D., Edinburgh, 1884.)

If you had even bothered to read what you are attempting to answer, you would know that the rest of my admittedly long post was dedicated to proving that your argument is incorrect.

And if you had even the slightest concept of pre-trib doctrine, it is a standard concept of pre-tribbers that, after the church is removed in the rapture, there will be others that come to Christ. Prep-tribers have always done as Irenaeus did, calling these post tribulation believers "righteous," instead of members of "the church."

I demonstrated at length that this is exactly what Irenaeus did, by tracing every reference he made to people during that period. Up to the point at which he placed the rapture, he always called the people he was talking about either "the church," "we," or "us." And after that time he always called the people he was talking about either "the righteous" or "they," them," or "those."

So I clearly demonstrated that your argument is completely wrong.
 
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Truth7t7

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If you had even bothered to read what you are attempting to answer, you would know that the rest of my admittedly long post was dedicated to proving that your argument is incorrect.

And if you had even the slightest concept of pre-trib doctrine, it is a standard concept of pre-tribbers that, after the church is removed in the rapture, there will be others that come to Christ. Prep-tribers have always done as Irenaeus did, calling these post tribulation believers "righteous," instead of members of "the church."

I demonstrated at length that this is exactly what Irenaeus did, by tracing every reference he made to people during that period. Up to the point at which he placed the rapture, he always called the people he was talking about either "the church," "we," or "us." And after that time he always called the people he was talking about either "the righteous" or "they," them," or "those."

So I clearly demonstrated that your argument is completely wrong.
The entire writings of Iranaeus saw the Church present on earth to see the Antichrust revealed.

Then you argue the Church and the Righteous are two separate defined by the word "They"?

The word "They" was used to depict the future church, "In The Time Of The End"

Iranaeus speaks in continous dialogue about the wheat and tares in the previous chapter, and explains "The Refiners Fire"below.

Iranaeus speaks how the Church will be caught up from this "Last Day" refiners fire.

Your claim of the Church and Righteous being two separate people, with different time frames in the chapter is 100% in error of the presented reading.

“Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons ‘as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance—in fact, as nothing;’ so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, ‘There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.’ For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.” (“Against Heresies”, Book V, chapter 29, paragraph 1, From “Ante-Nicean Fathers,” ed. Alexander Roberts, D.D. and James Donaldson, D.D., Edinburgh, 1884.)
 
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Biblewriter

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The entire writings of Iranaeus saw the Church present on earth to see the Antichrust revealed.

Then you argue the Church and the Righteous are two separate defined by the word "They"?

The word "They" was used to depict the future church, "In The Time Of The End"

Iranaeus speaks in continous dialogue about the wheat and tares in the previous chapter, and explains "The Refiners Fire"below.

Iranaeus speaks how the Church will be caught up from this "Last Day" refiners fire.

Your claim of the Church and Righteous being two separate people, with different time frames in the chapter is 100% in error of the presented reading.

“Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons ‘as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance—in fact, as nothing;’ so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, ‘There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.’ For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.” (“Against Heresies”, Book V, chapter 29, paragraph 1, From “Ante-Nicean Fathers,” ed. Alexander Roberts, D.D. and James Donaldson, D.D., Edinburgh, 1884.)

The entire scenario you claim to have been taught by Irenaeus is imagined, and not even close to what he actually said. Like Justyn Martyr, Irenaeus put this entire period as ending at the end of earth's six thousandth year. As both of them would have been using the chronology of the Septuagint, that would have put this period abut 300 years (more or less) into their own futures. Thus, the "we" and "us" in the earlier part of the account of Irenasus, along with the words "the church," were all clearly referring to the future church. So your entire argument is built of straw, on a foundation of sand.

What you are doing is interpreting some of the words of Irenaeus to mean exactly the opposite of what he explicitly said.
 
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