Disobedience has consequences.

[oi_antz]

didn't take him any effort to create.

Can you please explain this? Where did you get this idea?

 

[Davian]

I've not researched it, personally. But others have.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25956752

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25924082

The question remains: what is a 'spiritual' world view in relation to a secular or a religious worldview? A reply to comments made about my letter questioning the 'spirituality' concept [1].

Do your research then. What units would you use?

 

[Davian]

Dont even go there. This is how they operate. Dawkins, a biologist and a strong proponent of atheism, has written many books on the subject, the most recent being "The God Delusion". From a philosophical perspective you could try Antony Flew's "God and Philosophy", or go straight for the classics like Karl ("religion is the opiate of the masses") Marx, Friedrich ("God is dead") Nietzsche, Michael Martin, or Bertrand ("Why I am not a Christian") Russell. There is also George Smith's "The Case Against God", or Sam Harris' "The End of Faith"

LOGIC 1 a (1) : a science that deals with the principles and criteria of validity of inference and demonstration :

Most use logic in a Plausible manor. Plausible is having a persuasive manner in speech or writing pertaining to a subject. So they never really are trying to "prove" anything. Just to be persuasive in refuting the criteria you set out. If you notice rarely if ever will they give a direct answer, instead they ask more questions. This is quite literally directly out of a hand book on how to win arguments:

View attachment 158900

You see? This isn't a debate.

More of a discussion.

You and me are idiots that need to be put into there place, and this "conversation" is seen as something to be won by the atheists.

What is there to 'win'?

Personally, I don't come here looking to teach anything.

It appears that you have come here to preach.

Because nobody here is actually having a conversation.

Not when they are being preached at.

The constant pounding, and ridicule to me is like a forge working steal.

Perhaps, but your level of entrenchment is no indicator of the veracity of your claims.

I come here for temperance. I learn understanding, patience, logic,

Indeed. These forums are good for that.

and usually have to hit my bible allot to answer so I learn allot. There is no "wining" this.

Now you are starting to get it.

Just take what they give you and learn from them. It's kind of like farming an area of a game for resources.

For that to work, you would need to concede that your "opponents" have knowledge that supersedes yours.

 

[nonbeliever314]

Can you please explain this? Where did you get this idea?

If he had to actually put in work to create everything, that means he must have had to overcome something to do so. Does that mean god has limits? After all he rested didn't he? Why did he need to rest? He's god.

 

[Davian]

Man's ideals are religion. This is why Jesus Christ himself flipped tables and whipped a person in the house of God.

Jesus whipped people? Nasty.

Religion is an affront to God.

Considering the billions of dollars poured into it every year, God does not seem to mind it too much.

 

[Davian]

...

Not all Christians have a true relationship with, or understanding of God.

I have not been provided with evidence that might show that any do.

Not my words. It's it in the bible.

The Bible appears to be demonstrably ineffective at settling differences of opinion.

 

[oi_antz]

If he had to actually put in work to create everything, that means he must have had to overcome something to do so. Does that mean god has limits? After all he rested didn't he? Why did he need to rest? He's god.

It's just a theory then? FYI: I think time does impose limits. I just described to Archeopteryx that resting is a pleasing activity. Why do you suggest that He would not like to rest?

 

[Davian]

Oh, I showed this to Davian earlier, maybe it will be relevant to this question too:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+6:10-11&version=NIV

.. and while Davian laughed at it

I didn't actually. I dismissed it as unevidenced, untestable, and unfalsifiable. Is your mind-reading aparatus at the cleaners?

(because that is the sort of person he is these days),

Perhaps you can lay off the personal attacks. Thanks.

I think you might find something far more serious to consider in it. Especially when you put it in conjunction with what I just explained to Archeopteryx about the necessity of gaining evidence for just actions.

 

[oi_antz]

I didn't actually. I dismissed it as unevidenced, untestable, and unfalsifiable. Is your mind-reading aparatus at the cleaners?

Perhaps you can lay off the personal attacks. Thanks.

You should act the way you want to be treated, and I will describe you truthfully.

 

[nonbeliever314]

It's just a theory then? FYI: I think time does impose limits. I just described to Archeopteryx that resting is a pleasing activity. Why do you suggest that He would not like to rest?

Really? IT'S GOD! I think the creator of the universe would be a little more powerful than that. If he isn't all powerful, that means there has to be something more powerful than he is, and that could go on and on and on. So are you somewhat suggesting that you think time imposes some type of limit on god?

 

[oi_antz]

Really? IT'S GOD! I think the creator of the universe would be a little more powerful than that. If he isn't all powerful, that means there has to be something more powerful than he is, and that could go on and on and on. So are you somewhat suggesting that you think time imposes some type of limit on god?

Yes, clearly. Check this:

It is finished!

 

[Davian]

This might help you, but it is up to you of course.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27:20-22&version=NLT

Meanwhile, the leading priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas to be released and for Jesus to be put to death. So the governor asked again, “Which of these two do you want me to release to you?”

The crowd shouted back, “Barabbas!”

Pilate responded, “Then what should I do with Jesus who is called the Messiah?”

They shouted back, “Crucify him!”

I do not see how this applies to the situation in the picture. One is human, the other is allegedly all-powerful, all-knowing. What has the latter done, lately?

 

[LostMarbels]

Hey good on you, it is good to repent and do right. But this still leaves the problem unresolved though, that you seem to be saying that Christianity is not a religion. But the definition of a religion does describe Christianity. People are right to tell you that you are misusing that word. But I also know what you are describing, I think you need to object to more specific aspects of the religious activity. However, I did also ask you to suggest what word you would rather use to describe Christianity that "religion" when "religion" is the correct word to use in that specific context. An example might be "donations to religions are exempt from tax" - I wonder if you would like to offer a different version of that expression. Alternatively you might rather rephrase the expression you made in the first place, that rather than saying God is against all religion, He is against something more specific and descriptive. FYI, it is said well by the prophet Isaiah:

And so the Lord says, “These people say they are mine. They honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. And their worship of me is nothing but man-made rules learned by rote.

I am sure this is what St Paul was warning Timothy of wrt quarrelling over words. It is the message that is important, and getting tied up on the pedantic use of words is shameful all around when we all know obviously what the message is.

Religion

The word religion derives from a Latin word (religio) that means piety, conscientiousness, scrupulousness, from religare, to bind back: re-, and ligare, to bind, to bind together. Religion therefore implies some type of binding between you and something else. It is defined as

• A belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
  
  
• A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
  
  
• The life or condition of a person in a religious order
  
  
• A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader
  
  
• A cause, a principle, or an activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion
  

So we see that religion refers not to Christianity in particular, rather it refers to a belief that comes from a set of rules that identify the religion. In this respect Christianity may be thought of as a religion because there are very definite boundaries that are present for the Christian. So you see that if your life is governed by religion then your life is bound to a system of belief and not necessarily Christ. Why is this so important to consider? It is important because your fulfillment in Christianity can only come by following Jesus and his teachings. If our life is based on the doctrines of a church or a religious system of a church or individual of that church, we have become practitioners of " the doctrines of men." Because we are now following the religious practices of that church and not necessarily Jesus. Do you see the difference? If you practice religion, are focused on being religious, or hold true to the beliefs of that church or denomination, you are now following the teachings of that establishment. You may hear about Jesus, teach his word etc. but your no longer following Jesus directly. You are now following your religious establishments doctrine, cannon, edicts, and values about Jesus.

 

[oi_antz]

I do not see how this applies to the situation in the picture. One is human, the other is allegedly all-powerful, all-knowing. What has the latter done, lately?

He told me to remove a post a few weeks back.

What have you done lately to satisfy His requirements of you?

 

[oi_antz]

Religion

The word religion derives from a Latin word (religio) that means piety, conscientiousness, scrupulousness, from religare, to bind back: re-, and ligare, to bind, to bind together. Religion therefore implies some type of binding between you and something else. It is defined as

• A belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
  
  
• A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
  
  
• The life or condition of a person in a religious order
  
  
• A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader
  
  
• A cause, a principle, or an activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion

So we see that religion refers not to Christianity in particular, rather it refers to a belief that comes from a set of rules that identify the religion. In this respect Christianity may be thought of as a religion because there are very definite boundaries that are present for the Christian. So you see that if your life is governed by religion then your life is bound to a system of belief and not necessarily Christ. Why is this so important to consider? It is important because your fulfillment in Christianity can only come by following Jesus and his teachings. If our life is based on the doctrines of a church or a religious system of a church or individual of that church, we have become practitioners of " the doctrines of men." Because we are now following the religious practices of that church and not necessarily Jesus. Do you see the difference? If you practice religion, are focused on being religious, or hold true to the beliefs of that church or denomination, you are now following the teachings of that establishment. You may hear about Jesus, teach his word etc. but your no longer following Jesus directly. You are now following your religious establishments doctrine, cannon, edicts, and values about Jesus.

Yes, I have always seen the difference you are describing. But I have also seen the real, living faith as being validly defined as religion, even according to this definition:

• A belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
  
• A cause, a principle, or an activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion

 

[nonbeliever314]

Yes, clearly. Check this:

It is finished!

What's finished? And why are we finishing?

 

[oi_antz]

What's finished? And why are we finishing?

His sacrifice was finished at that moment, and He was finishing because He commended His spirit to The Father's care.

 

[oi_antz]

Really? IT'S GOD! I think the creator of the universe would be a little more powerful than that. If he isn't all powerful, that means there has to be something more powerful than he is, and that could go on and on and on. So are you somewhat suggesting that you think time imposes some type of limit on god?

Here's another one. Third time quoted in this thread:

Then a white robe was given to each of them. And they were told to rest a little longer until the full number of their brothers and sisters—their fellow servants of Jesus who were to be martyred—had joined them.

 

[Davian]

You should act the way you want to be treated,

And you can stop misrepresenting my actions.

and I will describe you truthfully.

Because you are the arbiter of truth in these forums.

 

[LostMarbels]

If he had to actually put in work to create everything, that means he must have had to overcome something to do so. Does that mean god has limits? After all he rested didn't he? Why did he need to rest? He's god.

He just created all that is known. So he kicked back and reveled it in for a while.

Also the word "rest" is meant as in: " He put the matter to rest"

שׁבת
shâbath
BDB Definition:
1) to cease, desist, rest
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to cease
1a2) to rest, desist (from labour)
1b) (Niphal) to cease
1c) (Hiphil)
1c1) to cause to cease, put an end to