• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Disobedience has consequences.

Status
Not open for further replies.

LostMarbels

All-Lives-Matter
Jun 18, 2011
11,953
3,863
50
Orlando Fl
✟173,798.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
No, I'm not stating that people aren't looking. I'm stating that some people look for God to conform to their own beliefs, and that when God's system conflicts their own they reject it because it isn't what they want. I am also stating that the burden of prof lies with God since he is the creator. Ultimately it is God's onus to prove his own validity.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I can't imagine anyone would do that. Why?

Let's say your kid goes off to college and starts working for a drug lord who is distributing heroin to the other kids. Do you continue to pay for college and send cookies in the mail every few months, or do you cut your kid off from the benefits of the family income?
 
Upvote 0

Skavau

Ode to the Forgotten Few
Sep 6, 2007
5,823
665
England
✟57,197.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Let's say your kid goes off to college and starts working for a drug lord who is distributing heroin to the other kids. Do you continue to pay for college and send cookies in the mail every few months?
No, but I don't torture them for it.

I'm not sure how this relates to someone who would worship a God they know to be untrue.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
No, but I don't torture them for it.

The word used is "torment" as in "anguish". It's not an external thing.
If it was external, it would be much less painful.
 
Reactions: oi_antz
Upvote 0

Skavau

Ode to the Forgotten Few
Sep 6, 2007
5,823
665
England
✟57,197.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
The word used is "torment" as in "anguish". It's not an external thing.
If it was external, it would be much less painful.
Why does God allow those who don't believe in him or believe in and follow truthfully or untruthfully in another God to suffer eternal torment?

What's the point?
 
Upvote 0

GrimKingGrim

The Thin Dead Line of sanity
Apr 13, 2015
1,237
177
Isle of Who?
✟17,968.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others

I really find it hard to believe you can't understand what he's saying. Also finding it hard to believe that you want people to warp their own beliefs in order to find God. I'm ALSO finding it hard to believe that you are making a claim and you're claim the burden of proof lies on the claim itself rather than you.
 
Upvote 0

Messy

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2011
10,027
2,082
Holland
✟21,082.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I do not see how it is just an opinion. If someone supported the overthrow of democracy in favour of fascism and I told them they were in favour of authoritarian government would that just be "my opinion"?
God has Theocracy. With democracy there is no free speech for murderers and such. His standards are higher. He wants everything to be perfect, no evil so noone gets hurt by that. Thorben Sondergaard saw how God saw sin. He saw kids fighting a bit and he thought oh well no big deal but then he saw they were bullying his daughter. That hurt him. He said: That's how God sees sin. We're so used to it, we call it mistakes or something. Just one sin from Adam, what did he do? He only disobeyed and wanted free thought, to decide what was good and evil himself. Now everyone complains that God lets innocent people suffer and He does nothing. He doesn't want the same thing to happen in heaven that happened here on earth. It goes from one sin that we might not even see as sin, just free thought, to all sin and murder you see on earth now.
 
Reactions: LostMarbels
Upvote 0

Skavau

Ode to the Forgotten Few
Sep 6, 2007
5,823
665
England
✟57,197.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
God has Theocracy. With democracy there is no free speech for murderers and such. His standards are higher.
I don't see restricting free speech as a higher standard.

I don't see how this justifies God punishing people for what they think.
 
Upvote 0

LostMarbels

All-Lives-Matter
Jun 18, 2011
11,953
3,863
50
Orlando Fl
✟173,798.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I do not see how it is just an opinion. If someone supported the overthrow of democracy in favour of fascism and I told them they were in favour of authoritarian government would that just be "my opinion"?
God is not a regime or a government.
I support God and his ideals. Those are concrete.

What you do in life is your choice.
 
Upvote 0

LostMarbels

All-Lives-Matter
Jun 18, 2011
11,953
3,863
50
Orlando Fl
✟173,798.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I do not see how it is just an opinion. If someone supported the overthrow of democracy in favour of fascism and I told them they were in favour of authoritarian government would that just be "my opinion"?
Because your opinion has absolutely nothing to do with God. It is formed out of misunderstanding as you perceive it.
 
Upvote 0

LostMarbels

All-Lives-Matter
Jun 18, 2011
11,953
3,863
50
Orlando Fl
✟173,798.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I have already told you. OUR (as in both of us) belief does not matter. God alone is sovereign, and it simply doesn't matter if God does not conform to our beliefs.

The other thing is in you treating this as if I came up with the notion of God. Like I somehow made up this stupid story and now I need to defend it. God, as in Jesus Christ makes the claim to be God. I did not claim that for him, I confess it as true. You need to confront Jesus himself if you wish to confront his claim. The burden of prof lies with the originator of my belief. The Lord Jesus the Christ.
 
Reactions: oi_antz
Upvote 0

Messy

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2011
10,027
2,082
Holland
✟21,082.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I don't see restricting free speech as a higher standard.


I don't see how this justifies God punishing people for what they think.
Oh okay well I don't believe He punishes people for what they think but for what they do.
 
Reactions: oi_antz
Upvote 0

LostMarbels

All-Lives-Matter
Jun 18, 2011
11,953
3,863
50
Orlando Fl
✟173,798.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I don't see restricting free speech as a higher standard.

Right now.... say God is a fool to yourself out-loud while your reading this. Did some mystical hand come down form the heavens and restrict your speech?


I don't see how this justifies God punishing people for what they think.

So... let me get this straight. Because you personally do not understand, something can be claimed false?
 
Upvote 0

Skavau

Ode to the Forgotten Few
Sep 6, 2007
5,823
665
England
✟57,197.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
I await an argument for why it is just to punish me for what I think.
 
Upvote 0

TillICollapse

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2013
3,416
278
✟21,582.00
Gender
Male
Marital Status
Single
Do you believe the burden of proof lies with God to support your claims ?
 
Reactions: oi_antz
Upvote 0

LostMarbels

All-Lives-Matter
Jun 18, 2011
11,953
3,863
50
Orlando Fl
✟173,798.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I await an argument for why it is just to punish me for what I think.
There is no argument. God is sovereign. His will, will be done.

I have gone back threw the post and haven't found where anyone brought up being punished for your thoughts other than yourself. Is that you perception?
 
Upvote 0

Skavau

Ode to the Forgotten Few
Sep 6, 2007
5,823
665
England
✟57,197.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
There is no argument. God is sovereign. His will, will be done.

I have gone back threw the post and haven't found where anyone brought up being punished for your thoughts other than yourself. Is that you perception?
You believe that I will be punished for not believing in God. Non-belief in God is a thought.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.