BTW, you should hear some of the Rock n Roll songs I've heard at people's funerals!! LOL!! I guess if it's their last request and all......
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disgraceful decadence of liturgy
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Amazing Grace with bongos?? LOL!!!! Oh you are really breaking my heart now.Eye_n_stl said:
Even Amazing Grace is beautiful with a few bongos!!!
Just my opinion!
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At my local church, with the missalette, we have a songbook of approved Christian songs. (All with the musical score for an organist.)
IMO, if these same songs are played on acoustical guitar, that is fine.
---
Like all things there can be abuse.
Example: no longer necessary to wear a coat and tie for men; dress for women
Abuse: shorts and flip flops
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As someone else said Mass is not entertainment.
I'll add to that. Mass is not a concert. Mass is not a dance.
IMO, if these same songs are played on acoustical guitar, that is fine.
---
Like all things there can be abuse.
Example: no longer necessary to wear a coat and tie for men; dress for women
Abuse: shorts and flip flops
----
As someone else said Mass is not entertainment.
I'll add to that. Mass is not a concert. Mass is not a dance.
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KC Catholic
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I tease my wife that I want all Journey albums from Infinity to Red 13 played at my funeral OR buy me a casket with a large battery so my iPod can play Journey after the lid is closed.Eye_n_stl said:BTW, you should hear some of the Rock n Roll songs I've heard at people's funerals!! LOL!! I guess if it's their last request and all......
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KC Catholic
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i really enjoy the music in the litergy , there are some songs that don't translate well though , and maybe should remain chanted ..
the singing helps me get joyful for the most part
:crosself:
the singing helps me get joyful for the most part
:crosself:
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KC Catholic
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Darn - I was picture a KISS concert crossed with Mass. Ok, I'll sit in the corner now.KennySe said:
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- Jun 16, 2004
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For the past two mornings, I heard Cyndie Lauper's "Time After Time" on our local Christian station. Blew my mind. I'm not sure I'm ready for Cyndie Lauper being sung at Mass.
Although clapping is never encouraged at Mass, on occasion after Meditation and after the closing song is sung, there are people who are moved to clapping. Our Priest doesn't approve, or like it. However, he said if someone is moved by the Spirit, he is not going to stop them.
There has always been a very strong Music Ministry in my parish. So much so that we have six choirs, each with its own personality. Among the six includes a childrens choir and a teen choir. What amuses people when they find out the amount of choirs we have is the number of Masses celebrated on the weekend. Three Masses, six choirs. When we still had our school, the total was seven. But the school choir only sang at the school Mass, except when there was a rare special occasion when they would sing at a Sunday Mass.
I just think music should be used appropriately, and being educated about what is and isn't is important. It doesn't happen overnight. Took my Parish years of educating our choirs, and a very supportive Pastor really helps. There is a place for every type of music. The Music Ministry needs to be educated on what type of music should be used and when.
Although clapping is never encouraged at Mass, on occasion after Meditation and after the closing song is sung, there are people who are moved to clapping. Our Priest doesn't approve, or like it. However, he said if someone is moved by the Spirit, he is not going to stop them.
There has always been a very strong Music Ministry in my parish. So much so that we have six choirs, each with its own personality. Among the six includes a childrens choir and a teen choir. What amuses people when they find out the amount of choirs we have is the number of Masses celebrated on the weekend. Three Masses, six choirs. When we still had our school, the total was seven. But the school choir only sang at the school Mass, except when there was a rare special occasion when they would sing at a Sunday Mass.
I just think music should be used appropriately, and being educated about what is and isn't is important. It doesn't happen overnight. Took my Parish years of educating our choirs, and a very supportive Pastor really helps. There is a place for every type of music. The Music Ministry needs to be educated on what type of music should be used and when.
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What I don't like is the "either/or" attitude. Okay. have some modern songs. But don't throw out 2,000 years of deep, reverent, inspiring Christian music and liturgy, for the sake of some shallow "Kumbaya" type choruses.
The power, relevance and theology of the great catholic hymns chants and liturgical music has been lost in so many places, and replaced by an awful trendy rendering of weak, repetitive choruses, often from Protestant sources, and teaching protestantism.
When you see a mass from St Peters there is VERY little of such junk.
The power, relevance and theology of the great catholic hymns chants and liturgical music has been lost in so many places, and replaced by an awful trendy rendering of weak, repetitive choruses, often from Protestant sources, and teaching protestantism.
When you see a mass from St Peters there is VERY little of such junk.
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- Jun 16, 2004
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The tendancy is for people to go from one extreme to the other.
"Oh, they said that this needs to be done. Guess we can't do that anymore."
"New music book. Guess we don't have to do the old stuff anymore."
Old and new music has a place. This past weekend, my choir sang "Hail Holy Queen" during the Vigil Of the Assumption. A song which is one of the first songs I learned when I was a child. (Yes, I'm showing my age here.)
As I tell my fellow parishoners when something different comes along, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water."
"Oh, they said that this needs to be done. Guess we can't do that anymore."
"New music book. Guess we don't have to do the old stuff anymore."
Old and new music has a place. This past weekend, my choir sang "Hail Holy Queen" during the Vigil Of the Assumption. A song which is one of the first songs I learned when I was a child. (Yes, I'm showing my age here.)
As I tell my fellow parishoners when something different comes along, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water."
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Do ya'll remember when Liturgical Dance came about, sometime in the 70's, I was like 8, and even back then I thought that was kinda weird! :o
Also, In the 70's came about the NEW song books approved by churches....
Do you guys consider those the classics? Or hymns sung in the 50s and later?
Don't get me wrong, I really love music, and I know it takes a VERY talented and alot of spriritual direction to be a liturgical Music Director. My parish is VERY blessed with one. He definately knows his stuff, and if I ever had any trouble planning a mass, I'd could always call him for advice......
This is turning into a GREAT discussion!!! Thanks!!!
Also, In the 70's came about the NEW song books approved by churches....
Do you guys consider those the classics? Or hymns sung in the 50s and later?
Don't get me wrong, I really love music, and I know it takes a VERY talented and alot of spriritual direction to be a liturgical Music Director. My parish is VERY blessed with one. He definately knows his stuff, and if I ever had any trouble planning a mass, I'd could always call him for advice......
This is turning into a GREAT discussion!!! Thanks!!!
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- Jun 16, 2004
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I think what happened when new music was introduced in the 70's is that people, in their zeal to modernize the church a bit, decided not to use the "old" hymns anymore. (Baby with the bathwater syndrone.) Which, if you think about it, is really sad. Because there is a whole wealth of glorious and wonderful music that was available that so many people, especially young children of that time, were missing out on.
Now that we have Missals and Music Issues that have a good mix of the old and new, the "older" music is being introduced to a new generation such as "Immaculate Mary", "Joyful, Joyful", "Holy God We Praise Thy Name". I guess you could say what was old is now new again.
Now that we have Missals and Music Issues that have a good mix of the old and new, the "older" music is being introduced to a new generation such as "Immaculate Mary", "Joyful, Joyful", "Holy God We Praise Thy Name". I guess you could say what was old is now new again.
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ProCommunioneFacior
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Nothing, nothing beats the transcendence of the chant and classical choir songs. Have you ever looked at the lyrics of the classical songs vs the new contemporary songs? There is no comparison. The profound theological truths that reside in the classical songs are profound, especially when you compare it to the "Jesus is my lover" songs that I hear nowadays.
Btw, I don't like Amazing Grace being sung at Mass either, it is theologically flawed.
The other day at Mass, the choir sang a beautiful, beautiful traditional song from the St. James liturgy, I wish I could remember the name of it, but it was awesome.
I guess that I would take songs that are beautiful, transcendent, and theologically profound over today's kumbaya "feel good" songs anyday.
However, I do listen to contemporary christian music when I'm not at Mass.
Btw, I don't like Amazing Grace being sung at Mass either, it is theologically flawed.
The other day at Mass, the choir sang a beautiful, beautiful traditional song from the St. James liturgy, I wish I could remember the name of it, but it was awesome.
I guess that I would take songs that are beautiful, transcendent, and theologically profound over today's kumbaya "feel good" songs anyday.
However, I do listen to contemporary christian music when I'm not at Mass.
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Irenaeus
Sub tuum praesidium confugimus!
I go to a Byzantine Church a good amount of time so I'm SO glad I don't have to deal with musical liturgical abuse because...there is no music!!!
The chants are enough to lift my mind to God - loud music just distracts me and makes me very grumpy when I go home.
What can compare to the old hymns? They are so rich in theological and spiritual meanings. Like St. John of the Cross' mystical poetry, or Thomas Aquinas' O Salutaris Hostia, or the Stabat Mater, or the famous Veni, Sancte Spiritus.
Just listen to the Ecce Panis Angelorum, the last two parts of "Lauda Sion"..
Behold the bread of angels,
Made the bread of pilgrims,
Truly children's bread,
Not intended for the dogs.
In types presignified,
With Issac's dedication
With the Paschal immolation,
As manna to the Fathers.
Or the Veni Sancte Spiritus,
Come O Holy Spirit,
and send out a ray
of thy heavenly light.
Come Father of the poor,
Come source of all our store,
Come light of the heart.
Greatest Consoler,
the sweet guest of the heart,
sweet coolness.
In labor you are rest,
In heat, refreshment;
in tears, solace.
O most blessed light,
fill the inmost places
of the hearts of thy faithful.
The chants are enough to lift my mind to God - loud music just distracts me and makes me very grumpy when I go home.
What can compare to the old hymns? They are so rich in theological and spiritual meanings. Like St. John of the Cross' mystical poetry, or Thomas Aquinas' O Salutaris Hostia, or the Stabat Mater, or the famous Veni, Sancte Spiritus.
Just listen to the Ecce Panis Angelorum, the last two parts of "Lauda Sion"..
Behold the bread of angels,
Made the bread of pilgrims,
Truly children's bread,
Not intended for the dogs.
In types presignified,
With Issac's dedication
With the Paschal immolation,
As manna to the Fathers.
Or the Veni Sancte Spiritus,
Come O Holy Spirit,
and send out a ray
of thy heavenly light.
Come Father of the poor,
Come source of all our store,
Come light of the heart.
Greatest Consoler,
the sweet guest of the heart,
sweet coolness.
In labor you are rest,
In heat, refreshment;
in tears, solace.
O most blessed light,
fill the inmost places
of the hearts of thy faithful.
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Irenaeus
Sub tuum praesidium confugimus!
May I make a little sales pitch right here? lol.
I really good CD I purchased about three months ago was "City on a Hill: The Gathering." The artists I believe are all Protestant, but in each of their "City on a Hill" CD's, they "remake" an old spiritual hymn, like "Kyrie Eleison," and "Sursum Corda."
They also include at some parts the prayers of Saints like Francis of Assisi.
If you like Contemporary Music but also love theological beauty and a melo tune to worship with, this CD is for you. It's so beautiful. It always blesses my heart.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000CABIG/qid=1092964119/sr=8-3/ref=pd_ka_3/102-4637054-9008946?v=glance&s=music&n=507846
One of the sublimest contemporary songs I have ever heard regarding the Passion (except maybe those made by Saints) is "Beautiful Scandalous Night", which goes like this, if I may quote.
1st Verse
"Go on up to the mountain of mercy,
to the crimson perpetual tide;
kneel down on the shore, be thirsty no more
Go under and be purified -
Follow Christ to the holy mountain,
sinners sorry and wrecked by the fall.
And your heart and your soul, and the fountain that flows,
for you and for me, and for all
Chorus:
At the wonderful tragic mysterious tree,
On that beautiful scandalous night you and me,
Were redeemed by his blood and forever washed white,
On that beautiful scandalous night.
2nd Verse:
On a hillside you will be delivered,
At the foot of the cross justified.
And your spirit restored by the river that pours
from our blessed savior's side."
Another good song is "Instrument of Your Peace." I think it's taken almost directly from St. Paul and Francis of Assisi. It's very beautiful. The other two City on a Hill CD's are awesome, too. I own them.
I don't know, I just like the music. I don't like contemporary at Mass though - at least the shouting, stereotypical Black Baptist Church type stuff that I've seen. Makes me wonder if it's more about worship than about hype. Reminds me of the pep rally analogy I heard earlier on this thread.
I really good CD I purchased about three months ago was "City on a Hill: The Gathering." The artists I believe are all Protestant, but in each of their "City on a Hill" CD's, they "remake" an old spiritual hymn, like "Kyrie Eleison," and "Sursum Corda."
They also include at some parts the prayers of Saints like Francis of Assisi.
If you like Contemporary Music but also love theological beauty and a melo tune to worship with, this CD is for you. It's so beautiful. It always blesses my heart.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000CABIG/qid=1092964119/sr=8-3/ref=pd_ka_3/102-4637054-9008946?v=glance&s=music&n=507846
One of the sublimest contemporary songs I have ever heard regarding the Passion (except maybe those made by Saints) is "Beautiful Scandalous Night", which goes like this, if I may quote.
1st Verse
"Go on up to the mountain of mercy,
to the crimson perpetual tide;
kneel down on the shore, be thirsty no more
Go under and be purified -
Follow Christ to the holy mountain,
sinners sorry and wrecked by the fall.
And your heart and your soul, and the fountain that flows,
for you and for me, and for all
Chorus:
At the wonderful tragic mysterious tree,
On that beautiful scandalous night you and me,
Were redeemed by his blood and forever washed white,
On that beautiful scandalous night.
2nd Verse:
On a hillside you will be delivered,
At the foot of the cross justified.
And your spirit restored by the river that pours
from our blessed savior's side."
Another good song is "Instrument of Your Peace." I think it's taken almost directly from St. Paul and Francis of Assisi. It's very beautiful. The other two City on a Hill CD's are awesome, too. I own them.
I don't know, I just like the music. I don't like contemporary at Mass though - at least the shouting, stereotypical Black Baptist Church type stuff that I've seen. Makes me wonder if it's more about worship than about hype. Reminds me of the pep rally analogy I heard earlier on this thread.
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Father Rick
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Many of the 'reverent' hymns like "Joyful, Joyful" were originally just re-writing the lyrics of 'drinking songs' from the pubs in Europe and at the time were considered scandalous. Now they're what we consider reverent.
I just think it's funny... and wonder what people will call reverent 100 years from now.
I just think it's funny... and wonder what people will call reverent 100 years from now.
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