Disfellowshipping

[yogosans14]

1 Corinthians 5:9-13--9 In my letter I wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators, 10 not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators+ of this world+ or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, YOU would actually have to get out of the world.+ 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company+ with* anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy+ person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard+ or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside?+ Do YOU not judge those inside,+ 13 while God judges those outside?+ “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”+

Jehovahs Witnesses are following bible standards..unlike Christendom who allows open homosexuals to be apart of their church...

Does your church follow these Biblical standards?

 

[timewerx]

You cannot really exclude yourself from sinners physically and remember, you still need to witness to them somehow...

However, to those who are stubborn and keeps rejecting the Truth, you should stop calling them brothers.

Also, when sinners laugh at sin, don't laugh with them, it shows you are agreeing with them in that sin, duh!

Finally, throw that TV out. It's the "box of the world" (warning James 4:4)

 

[Soulgazer]

"
But as to this prostitution, the apostles of the savior commanded (Acts 15:20, 29; 21:25; 1Th 4:3; 1 Co 6:18; 2 Co 7:1): "Guard yourselves against it, purify yourselves from it," speaking not just of the prostitution of the body but especially that of the soul. For this reason the apostles write to the churches of God, that such prostitution might not occur among us.
Yet the greatest struggle has to do with the prostitution of the soul. From it arises the prostitution of the body as well. Therefore Paul, writing to the Corinthians (1Co 5:9-10), said, "I wrote you in the letter, 'Do not associate with prostitutes,' not at all (meaning) the prostitutes of this world or the greedy or the thieves or the idolaters, since then you would have to go out from the world." - here it is speaking spiritually - "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood - as he said (Ep 6:12) - but against the world rulers of this darkness and the spirits of wickedness."~Exegesis on the Soul

"Witness" means to let your light shine, not to tell about acts that you did not witness yourself; "Do not bear false witness". Be friendly and courtious and helpful. Stand for good for goodness sake. If someone asks how you can always be so upbeat, then tell them.

Any church that asks you to leave friends and family behind is is a cult, and not doing God's work. Get out and find one that does....churches are everywhere, no shortage.

 

[peebly63]

1 Corinthians 5:9-13--9 In my letter I wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators, 10 not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators+ of this world+ or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, YOU would actually have to get out of the world.+ 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company+ with* anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy+ person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard+ or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside?+ Do YOU not judge those inside,+ 13 while God judges those outside?+ “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”+

Jehovahs Witnesses are following bible standards..unlike Christendom who allows open homosexuals to be apart of their church...

Does your church follow these Biblical standards?

so now we are saying the JW's do disfellowship, this is like a yoyo...

I think you do have a point in a way, yes I di believe christianity is beig mocked by gay and lesbian churches, priests and church members but the other problem for both the JW's and mormons they disfellowship when people notice erroneous doctrine of the denomination or behaviour of others..

 

[Gareth]

It is interesting to note that the Catholic Encyclopedia says that every society has a right to shun certain people who deliberately fail to adhere to a set of rules or regulations. This affects any society: religious or secular.

Under the Law that the Jews were under, some laws that were broken could of ended up with the person being stoned to death, `clearing out what was bad in Israel.` Achan stole and concealed items that were for either destruction or to be handed over for God's Tabernacle. He had every opportunity given to confess and yet when found out both he and his family were put to death (Joshua 7:16-26). Over-reaction?

Jehovah was offended by the action Achan took, and yet if he had confessed earlier maybe God could of shown mercy. We will never know. So today we don't stone people to death and then burn them with fire, but we do reserve the God given right to shun those who flagrantly refuse to adhere to God's standards on conduct and worship. Being disfellowshipped is the last step in a long road of discussions and meetings trying to help the one who has erred (and who hasn't let's be honest). Serious sin must be dealt with. God has demanded that any who wish to follow him and be acceptable to him must conform to his standards. If a person goes away from those standards then they are respectfully asked to reconsider their stance, and if they refuse out of pride or other reasons they cannot in any good conscience remain in the Christian Congregation.

 

[Hillsage]

"

"Witness" means to let your light shine, not to tell about acts that you did not witness yourself; "Do not bear false witness". Be friendly and courtious and helpful. Stand for good for goodness sake. If someone asks how you can always be so upbeat, then tell them.

'Witness' is a term that is most generally used to mean 'let your light shine' to unbelieversIMO. Not that we shouldn't 'always shine'. But when it comes to keeping 'the temple' clean even Jesus and Paul did a little house keeping, and I trust their example to have been correct. And since I think they were correct I believe we can do so also. Having said that, I still don't think it is handled correctly very often today.

But most of the churches today seem to operate with the other 'bar ditches' of extremism IMO. It's either 'ALL are always IN' or 'ALL who disagree are OUT'. The problem today is they do not discern between those who are 'mature in their rebellion/sin' and those who are simply 'immature in their growth'. Those who are rebellious, you deal with by cleansing, or kicking them out of the temple (which WE are). Those who are immature you help clean up within the body of supporting believers.

Any church that asks you to leave friends and family behind is is a cult, and not doing God's work. Get out and find one that does....churches are everywhere, no shortage.

I have very dear patients who are Holdeman Mennonites (beard and bonnet believers). I have discussed this very issue with my 'favorite one'. Eugene is very compassionate about those they have to 'shunning'. But they do so in every hope that it will help the rebellious to come to repentance. And he has told me of those cases, as well as those who do not wish to change. And they are quite 'rebelliously' happy to be 'out'. As Eugene puts it; "Even in the OT there were sins that had to be dealt with "outside the camp".

 

[Soulgazer]

'Witness' is a term that is most generally used to mean 'let your light shine' to unbelieversIMO. Not that we shouldn't 'always shine'. But when it comes to keeping 'the temple' clean even Jesus and Paul did a little house keeping, and I trust their example to have been correct. And since I think they were correct I believe we can do so also. Having said that, I still don't think it is handled correctly very often today.

But most of the churches today seem to operate with the other 'bar ditches' of extremism IMO. It's either 'ALL are always IN' or 'ALL who disagree are OUT'. The problem today is they do not discern between those who are 'mature in their rebellion/sin' and those who are simply 'immature in their growth'. Those who are rebellious, you deal with by cleansing, or kicking them out of the temple (which WE are). Those who are immature you help clean up within the body of supporting believers.

I have very dear patients who are Holdeman Mennonites (beard and bonnet believers). I have discussed this very issue with my 'favorite one'. Eugene is very compassionate about those they have to 'shunning'. But they do so in every hope that it will help the rebellious to come to repentance. And he has told me of those cases, as well as those who do not wish to change. And they are quite 'rebelliously' happy to be 'out'. As Eugene puts it; "Even in the OT there were sins that had to be dealt with "outside the camp".

There is a bit of difference in the extemes. For instance, I don't hang with people who are sexually attracted to children, or are whistling down the street at attractive ladies. It doesn't mean I wouldn't help one in trouble. If my child was a disbeliever, I wouldn't disown him/her nor would I stay away from my brother who is a decent loving atheist. People are brought to God by God; If they are not brought to God, what can they do about it? Nothing. I don't blame people for not coming when they are not called. "Shun" someone who doesn't believe as I do? Couldn't do it---otherwise I wouldn't even be on this board.

I am a "witness" to what God can do with a life. I don't go bothering people at 7am by knocking on doors----that's not "witnessing" that's just counterproductive actvivity. I am happy, caring and empathetic now, and it shows---that's the "witness". Those that are called will hear a familiar voice in mine.

 

[rEACHout4all]

1 Corinthians 5:9-13--9 In my letter I wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators, 10 not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators+ of this world+ or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, YOU would actually have to get out of the world.+ 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company+ with* anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy+ person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard+ or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside?+ Do YOU not judge those inside,+ 13 while God judges those outside?+ “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”+

Jehovahs Witnesses are following bible standards..unlike Christendom who allows open homosexuals to be apart of their church...

Does your church follow these Biblical standards?

5:11, "don't even eat with them" goes against Christ eating with sinners in the gospels.

1 Cor 5:9-13 is very dubious and it has a different style compared 1-9.

Its unloving not to eat with someone because of judgemental arrogance.

 

[Hillsage]

There is a bit of difference in the extemes. For instance, I don't hang with people who are sexually attracted to children, or are whistling down the street at attractive ladies.

Whereas I have hung with 'immature' believers guilty of worse sins IMO. It was admittedly embarrassing at times...but then my own 'immature' kids embarrassed me in their youth more than once, too.

It doesn't mean I wouldn't help one in trouble. If my child was a disbeliever, I wouldn't disown him/her

Nor did I disown my own son when he became part of a gang, got in fights, got arrested ect. ect. But I also never lowered the standards of my house, or our expectations of him. It was a very hard number of years. But it was very gratifying when he visited for the first time after moving out 6 months earlier. He lived in another city across the state. The grateful part was when he came up to me on his first visit back and said; "Dad I'm sorry I was such a butt-face growing up." He still lives there with his wife and two kids...and they just started going to church a couple of years ago.

I also welcomed my brother in law's son to stay at our house with his 'live in' girlfriend, during an overcrowded 'Christmas house' at the in-laws. But we had a talk first explaining how I welcomed them both if they would honor my belief that they should be in separate bedrooms. He graciously AND maturely agreed...and all went well. They now are married...and go to church.

People are brought to God by God; If they are not brought to God, what can they do about it? Nothing. I don't blame people for not coming when they are not called.

and

"Shun" someone who doesn't believe as I do? Couldn't do it---otherwise I wouldn't even be on this board.

That's not the point IMO. Those who are shunned should be those who KNOW their actions are wrong and think it is our business to stay out of theirs. That's not how a healthy body works IMO. I do think their 'attitude' is more important than their 'sin'.

 

[Soulgazer]

That's not the point IMO. Those who are shunned should be those who KNOW their actions are wrong and think it is our business to stay out of theirs. That's not how a healthy body works IMO. I do think their 'attitude' is more important than their 'sin'.

Well, yeah, I think I can agree with that. A dirty cop, a pastor caught in bed with someone else's wife, a church "protesting" funerals or obveresly, actually supporting violence.....there are definite examples of people that need to be shunned or shocked back to reality.

It's all a matter of degree. I think "shunning" someone who does or does not believe in the "trinity" or has a more or lesser docetic view of Christ, or one who won't even drink coffee or another that has a nightcap before bed is just plain silliness though. It happens, because of one of the basic tenets of humanity---"You can't fix stupid". Some people who claim that they "put on the mind of Christ" must be trying to convince the world that Christ was dumber than Bubba at the local Snack and Go.

It's always a matter of degree, and hopefully we learn from our own lives. My father taught me to lie---by physically punishing every wrong, so I would just lie and say "wasn't me". I learned. My kids were seldom punished for a wrong, just for lying about it. "please don't do that again, and this is why" went a long way to producing children that grew into responsible adults.

It's the ones that lie or rationalize away what they wouldn't reveal in the light of day, or are just plain habitually obnoxious, that need the wake up call. "Obnoxious you say?" Yeah, and that is a biggie. Who wants to spend eternity with an obnoxious neighbor? That would be more like hell than like heaven. I don't think God lets them in.

When people join our church, we tell them "this is what we believe and practice. We don't ask that everyone stay in lockstep, but we aren't interested in hearing, in church anyway, teachings about lizardmen from Mars. What you do in your personal life is your own buisiness, between you and God, but what we discuss here may affect you and what you do at home, we hope, in a positive manner. "

It's the people who refuse to be affected in a positive manner that we suggest to that they might be happier somewhere else.

 

[hedrick]

Some kind of church disciplines seems both Biblical and necessary. There are times when the Church can't ignore an offense. So this isn't a black and white question where we can argue whether the Christians should ever isolate an offender. Rather, it's a matter of good judgement:

* How often is it used, and for what kinds of sins? Is it really being used for things that would be scandalous, or to keep people from raising any doubts about the church or its leadership?

* How far is it pushed? If it tears families apart it's a supposed cure that's worse than the disease.

Jesus dealt with people that the leaders of his time thought a righteous person shouldn't deal with. That should serve as a caution that Christians should use disfellowship very carefully, if at all.

 

[Gareth]

Shunning does indeed cause stress on families and individuals and congregations, especially if the one being shunned was well known and respected. But, the cleanness of the faith has to be upheld. If you feel your faith is `the one` how would you like the faith you represent to be sullied by the antics of those who claim to be of your faith and yet live their life contrary to it and in full view of others?

Your faith wouldn't look good. You might feel embarrassed identifying yourself as this or that Christian. Shunning has a two-fold purpose. To keep the faith clean and to make the one shunned humbly re-submit themselves into doing God's will His way.

 

[peebly63]

Shunning does indeed cause stress on families and individuals and congregations, especially if the one being shunned was well known and respected. But, the cleanness of the faith has to be upheld. If you feel your faith is `the one` how would you like the faith you represent to be sullied by the antics of those who claim to be of your faith and yet live their life contrary to it and in full view of others?

Your faith wouldn't look good. You might feel embarrassed identifying yourself as this or that Christian. Shunning has a two-fold purpose. To keep the faith clean and to make the one shunned humbly re-submit themselves into doing God's will His way.

could it be that it is more about other members hearing the truth, rather than cleaning out the ranks...

 

[Hillsage]

a church "protesting" funerals or obveresly, actually supporting violence.....

So you're actually in support of 'shunning' a whole church huh? Me too, of course.

It's all a matter of degree. I think "shunning" someone who does or does not believe in the "trinity" or has a more or lesser docetic view of Christ, or one who won't even drink coffee or another that has a nightcap before bed is just plain silliness though. It happens, because of one of the basic tenets of humanity---

I think shunning because of doctrine is "dumber than Bubba." Having wrong doctrine isn't a sin, it is just being theologically wrong...so what. I care about your 'walk' more than your 'talk'. And so does God. No judgment in scripture was for being 'doctrinally dumb.'

Who wants to spend eternity with an obnoxious neighbor? That would be more like hell than like heaven. I don't think God lets them in.

You're right, no one wants to spend 'eternity' with them. That's why God 'shuns' them in the next age until they're humble enough to be a neighbor.

I think we are more 'on' the same page...than 'not'.

Be blessed bro.

 

[hedrick]

Shunning does indeed cause stress on families and individuals and congregations, especially if the one being shunned was well known and respected. But, the cleanness of the faith has to be upheld. If you feel your faith is `the one` how would you like the faith you represent to be sullied by the antics of those who claim to be of your faith and yet live their life contrary to it and in full view of others?

Your faith wouldn't look good. You might feel embarrassed identifying yourself as this or that Christian. Shunning has a two-fold purpose. To keep the faith clean and to make the one shunned humbly re-submit themselves into doing God's will His way.

I would hope the issue isn't about us being embarrassed. There are times when we need to take a stand. But if we're followers of Jesus we will balance that need with the human impact. I think we can make our position clear short of telling members of a family to shun each other. I don't know JW practice, but in many cases I don't agree with the choice of things for which we disfellowship people.

 

[Soulgazer]

I think we are more 'on' the same page...than 'not'.

Be blessed bro.

You too bro