Disemboweling Oklo

[Blayz]

So? Obviosuly something happened there. The question is what?

Nuclear fission a few billion years ago. If you have an alternative hypothesis, please do feel free to present it.

False. Many are missing, and a series of miracles is required to make the same state past reaction fit. The dots do not actually connect in the way you think.

There is nothing false, and nothing missing. If I use CURRENT STATE knowledge of nuclear decay, and predict what would happen if there was a nuclear reaction in Oklo a few billion years ago, then my prediction matches reality.

It is that simple dad. The prediction matches reality. All you have is fluster and outraged hand waving. You have provided nothing as an alternative.

The time that the imaginary reaction went on is set to a same state decay assumption.

Your problem, as I said, is that the assumption matches reality. Once again you have evaded the central question.

Do you support your different state past that only existed in Gabon and nowhere else, yes or no?

Instead of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "no, no, no!" Please feel free to provide an alternate solution.

Dad, defeated 6th June 2011 by Dad himself.

 

[dad]

Nuclear fission a few billion years ago. If you have an alternative hypothesis, please do feel free to present it.

No alternate anything is needed for a fable. Unless it is proven and solidly evidenced here, you got nothing at all. All the reasons you BELIEVE present nuclear anything to have existed cannot stand.

There is nothing false, and nothing missing. If I use CURRENT STATE knowledge of nuclear decay, and predict what would happen if there was a nuclear reaction in Oklo a few billion years ago, then my prediction matches reality.

False! The only way to make it match inside your imaginary model, is to do a long series of miracles. You need the pure river under all the sites there, got it?? Let us see the evidence here and now? You need to dunk all the sites MILES under the surface of earth! Show us proof that happened there?? None exists, it is pure imagination. Same with resurfacing it when it suits your fable! Same as a long list of things.

Yes there was uplift in that area as there was elsewhere on the planet. Most of the surrounding layer is Tertiary. If the flood was somewhere near the KT layer (my current guess, subject to evidence) that means it was a post flood uplift! Or, to be more precise somewhere around the time of the nature change!

Do you support your different state past that only existed in Gabon and nowhere else, yes or no?

No. Of course not.


Step right up Blayz, and we will see who is defeated.

 

[Blayz]

No alternate anything is needed for a fable. Unless it is proven and solidly evidenced here, you got nothing at all. All the reasons you BELIEVE present nuclear anything to have existed cannot stand.

That's just silly. You are saying my explanation is wrong, therefore no explanation is needed.

No. Of course not.

OK, so different state past cannot explain the fissile material discrepancy.

What can?

Step right up Blayz, and we will see who is defeated.

Still you Dad, still you, and I stress again that you defeated yourself, it had little to do with me.

All you have to do to prove me wrong is provide an explanation for the difference between Oklo and the rest of the world.

 

[dad]

That's just silly. You are saying my explanation is wrong, therefore no explanation is needed.

I am saying you don't know. You are confirming that.

OK, so different state past cannot explain the fissile material discrepancy.

What can?

What we are asking here is what does in science, if anything? The magic river and magic dunkings, and appearing and disappearing stuff as needed, are just a long string of things you need to happen, with no proof they did happen.

Still you Dad, still you, and I stress again that you defeated yourself, it had little to do with me.

Wakey wakey. Earth to Blayz....

All you have to do to prove me wrong is provide an explanation for the difference between Oklo and the rest of the world.

None is needed! We can just say we don't know. Why a need, no a compulsion to make stuff up?

Obviously something happened there. What is the great need to guess what? Either you know, or not.

 

[Blayz]

I am saying you don't know. You are confirming that.

No, I am saying that all you have done is say "science is wrong", without providing any alternative at all. You have "demonstrated" this wrongness through an extended argument from incredulity.

What we are asking here is what does in science, if anything? The magic river and magic dunkings, and appearing and disappearing stuff as needed, are just a long string of things you need to happen, with no proof they did happen.

That might be what you are asking, but it aint what I am asking, so let me ask it again.

Give a better explanation for Oklo Dad. Anything else is just self-defeating. Again.

None is needed! We can just say we don't know. Why a need, no a compulsion to make stuff up?

Obviously something happened there. What is the great need to guess what? Either you know, or not.

LOL.

 

[dad]

No, I am saying that all you have done is say "science is wrong", without providing any alternative at all. You have "demonstrated" this wrongness through an extended argument from incredulity.

If I point out that a pig can't fly, I do not need to provide an eagle. It is what it is.

That might be what you are asking, but it aint what I am asking, so let me ask it again.

Give a better explanation for Oklo Dad. Anything else is just self-defeating. Again.

Once we saw that science was defeated and looked at the baseless string of insane baseless claims that no one can support here, there is nothing left to defeat.

Where is your magic river? Where is the proof that the 12 sites or whatever were dunked MILES underneath the ground..etc.



If we were to look at possible causes for the differences in a different past state perspective, I might start at the very basics.


In this state we would rule out natural isotopic separation....

That is what they did, actually

“Natural” isotopic separation was excluded ..."

Oklo 2 Billion Years Before Fermi - Save The Climate

But if the nature was different why rule it out even?

 

[Blayz]

If I point out that a pig can't fly, I do not need to provide an eagle. It is what it is.

That would only be true if I claimed a pig can fly. Since we both agree on the existing model (non flying pigs) no alternative is needed.

Once we saw that science was defeated and looked at the baseless string of insane baseless claims that no one can support here, there is nothing left to defeat.

The only defeat here was yours. Yelling magic! impossible! lies! isn't defeating anything except yourself dad.

If we were to look at possible causes for the differences in a different past state perspective, I might start at the very basics.

*excellent* I knew if I prodded enough the weakest part of your argument would once again surface. So let me reiterate:

The perturbation in U235 content only occurs in Oklo, nowhere else in the world. A different past state perspective only works if there was an extra special different past state just in Oklo.

This is the crux of your self defeat dad. A different state past is unfalsifiable. I can no more disprove a different state past than I can a God. However, for a different state past to explain Oklo, then there has to have been a special even more different state just in Oklo, and you have already stated this is not the case.

 

[dad]

That would only be true if I claimed a pig can fly. Since we both agree on the existing model (non flying pigs) no alternative is needed.

You failed to support the claims of science, so that pig can't fly. Your shrill calles for others to provide 'any alternative'. Unless your pig can fly no alternative is needed.

The only defeat here was yours. Yelling magic! impossible! lies! isn't defeating anything except yourself dad.

Pointing out that science invokes a river and dunking and all sorts of things that can't be proven, isn't yelling, it is telling.

*excellent* I knew if I prodded enough the weakest part of your argument would once again surface. So let me reiterate:

The perturbation in U235 content only occurs in Oklo, nowhere else in the world. A different past state perspective only works if there was an extra special different past state just in Oklo.

Nope. All we need is either a manufactured reaction, or a different state reaction, or conditions where some sort of natural non reactive separation. With a different nature, how would this be the least concern???

This is the crux of your self defeat dad. A different state past is unfalsifiable. I can no more disprove a different state past than I can a God.

Can you falsify a same state past?! No. You are hooped by your own standards!

However, for a different state past to explain Oklo, then there has to have been a special even more different state just in Oklo, and you have already stated this is not the case.

Not at all. There just needs to have been either a contrived reaction, or natural reaction in the DSP, or conditions where some sort of natural non reactive separation. Or I suppose even some contrived non reactive separation! So many DSP possibilities, so little time.

 

[Blayz]

You failed to support the claims of science, so that pig can't fly.

That is the claim of science. You are contradicting yourself within the same sentence now.

Your shrill calles for others to provide 'any alternative'.

A cute attempt to divert the fail, but no. I aint calling for others, I am calling only for those that dispute the current model.

That would be you, in case it is not clear.

Now this next is interesting, you are starting to postulate alternative hypotheses, finally doing what I asked several pages ago. Well done, and thanks...even if it humorously and ironically contradicts

]None is needed! We can just say we don't know. Why a need, no a compulsion to make stuff up?

Nope. All we need is either a manufactured reaction

Dad hypothesis 1 might be interesting, lets investigate further. What do you mean by manufactured?

or a different state reaction, or conditions where some sort of natural non reactive separation. With a different nature, how would this be the least concern

Dad hypothesis 2 is perhaps less interesting, since it is just a goalpost move. Exactly what led to this different state reaction only occurring in Oklo, and what is the semantic difference between a nuclear reaction (science), and a different state reaction (dad)

Can you falsify a same state past?! No.

Was this an attempt to quote my previous post? Why? Not sure why you rearranged the words, here, let me quote myself to remind you

I can no more disprove a different state past than I can a God.

You are hooped by your own standards!

Must resist....temptation too strong....

At least I have standards.

Sorry. Wont happen again.

Not at all. There just needs to have been either a contrived reaction, or natural reaction in the DSP, or conditions where some sort of natural non reactive separation. Or I suppose even some contrived non reactive separation! So many DSP possibilities, so little time.

This is a rehash of dad hypotheses 1 and 2. To summarize, you think the alternative to a nuclear reaction was some other reaction.

Nice

Change your tagline from "undefeated" to "self-defeated". You know you want to.

 

[dad]

That is the claim of science. You are contradicting yourself within the same sentence now.

"That" is the claim? What exactly are you talking about?

A cute attempt to divert the fail, but no. I aint calling for others, I am calling only for those that dispute the current model.

Oklo is a fail. Publicly disgraced here. No one needs to do anything but laugh.

That would be you, in case it is not clear.

Nonsense. I do not need an Oklo model. I don't even find it all that interesting. Some sort of different state reaction or process went on, whoopee do.

Now this next is interesting, you are starting to postulate alternative hypotheses, finally doing what I asked several pages ago. Well done, and thanks...even if it humorously and ironically contradicts

I don't feel a need to guess. I am capable, yes. But I am content to simply kill the so called science claims.

Dad hypothesis 1 might be interesting, lets investigate further. What do you mean by manufactured?

Well, let's say that the reaction site was near one of the rivers in Eden, for example. Maybe Adam or God or someone wanted to have a nice hot pool!

Dad hypothesis 2 is perhaps less interesting, since it is just a goalpost move. Exactly what led to this different state reaction only occurring in Oklo, and what is the semantic difference between a nuclear reaction (science), and a different state reaction (dad)

Well, to know that one would have to have some idea what the laws in place were, and how things worked in that nature. As far as a nuclear reaction in the different state, we don't know how it would work. But in the created nature, as well as in the future nature, I doubt that any radioactive decay exists. I also doubt any ill effects would exist, in any reactions, such as wastes, or radioactive danger.

People muse about cold fusion. Well, if it was a DSP reaction, I suspect it would be more like that, then a modern reactor.

Was this an attempt to quote my previous post? Why? Not sure why you rearranged the words, here, let me quote myself to remind you

You claimed that a DSP could not be falsified, right? Well, can you falsify a same state past?

This is a rehash of dad hypotheses 1 and 2. To summarize, you think the alternative to a nuclear reaction was some other reaction.

Nice

Well it was a reaction that happened under different laws. That doesn't mean some things would not be similar possibly.

Change your tagline from "undefeated" to "self-defeated". You know you want to.

I prefer truth. My faith remains undefeated. My ideas remain undefeated, basically. ...quoth the raven, evermore..


2 Cor 4:8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;

1Co 15:57 -But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Jo 5:4 -For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

No Christian is defeated.

 

[Blayz]

"That" is the claim? What exactly are you talking about?

Non flying pigs, as far as I can tell. Don't blame me, you brought up the topic.

Oklo is a fail. Publicly disgraced here. No one needs to do anything but laugh.

Do you really believe that your typing a number of variations on "I don't believe it" and "it isn't proven" constitutes public fail? Does this just apply to you? Am I allowed to do it?

Nonsense. I do not need an Oklo model. I don't even find it all that interesting.

I'll believe that when you stop responding to this thread.

Some sort of different state reaction or process went on, whoopee do.

I'll ask again, why in Oklo, and nowhere else?

Well, let's say that the reaction site was near one of the rivers in Eden, for example. Maybe Adam or God or someone wanted to have a nice hot pool!

Was it next to Eden? I thought Eden was up in Iran, rather than Gabon. Also, later in this post you say no decay was present. In that case, what was causing the heat, exactly? In the absence of radioactive decay, a lump of U235 is about as active as a stone.

But in the created nature, as well as in the future nature, I doubt that any radioactive decay exists.

Is that just because it has the word "decay" in it? Or do you have another reason for proposing this?

People muse about cold fusion. Well, if it was a DSP reaction, I suspect it would be more like that, then a modern reactor.
You claimed that a DSP could not be falsified, right? Well, can you falsify a same state past?

Nope

Well it was a reaction that happened under different laws. That doesn't mean some things would not be similar possibly.

So now it is possible that the scientific explanation and the dad explanation have alot in common. Public fail indeed.

 

[dad]

Non flying pigs, as far as I can tell. Don't blame me, you brought up the topic.

So if science is the pig, and it can't fly to infinity and beyond, how would not being able to fly help your case??

Do you really believe that your typing a number of variations on "I don't believe it" and "it isn't proven" constitutes public fail? Does this just apply to you? Am I allowed to do it?

So how does wasting our time posting nothing prove a same state past? You do realize that without one, all is lost for your side?

I'll believe that when you stop responding to this thread.

Displaying so called science heads on a pole is hard work.

I'll ask again, why in Oklo, and nowhere else?

We don't know that do we? You mean why Oklo so far? Well, if God or man wanted to do a DSP reaction there, why not?? Or, if conditions in the nature of the day were just right for certain changes to occur...why not?

Was it next to Eden? I thought Eden was up in Iran, rather than Gabon. Also, later in this post you say no decay was present. In that case, what was causing the heat, exactly? In the absence of radioactive decay, a lump of U235 is about as active as a stone.

I doubt it. That was an example of what might cause something long ago. My opinion now is that Eden was near Jerusalem. Was there a river from Oklo over to that area?...What 'heat' are you talking about? Proof? Is Oklo hot??

Is that just because it has the word "decay" in it? Or do you have another reason for proposing this?

Let's not get too complicated and spread out here.

Nope

Interesting, so your foundational premise is unfalsifiable. OK.

So now it is possible that the scientific explanation and the dad explanation have alot in common. Public fail indeed.

The facts would be what would be in common. All the myth and fable and story telling, and wishful thinking, and same state past beliefs, and series of unbelievable events have no bearing on anything.

 

[Blayz]

So if science is the pig, and it can't fly to infinity and beyond, how would not being able to fly help your case??

I can honestly say I don't know. Even going back and looking at the post audit trail isn't helping. I have no idea what you are trying to say.

So how does wasting our time posting nothing prove a same state past? You do realize that without one, all is lost for your side?

And with one, all is lost for yours. The difference is, without one...you still lose with regards the Oklo reactor. It's win-lose for me and lose-lose for you.

Displaying so called science heads on a pole is hard work.

Indeed, probably why you have never succeeded.

We don't know that do we?

And in your world, that is the end of the story. We don't know. We cannot know. Even asking the question is pointless. We'd be living in caves if you ruled the world.

You mean why Oklo so far? Well, if God or man wanted to do a DSP reaction there, why not?? Or, if conditions in the nature of the day were just right for certain changes to occur...why not?

What conditions, and once again, why just Oklo?

What 'heat' are you talking about? Proof? Is Oklo hot??

Well, let's say that the reaction site was near one of the rivers in Eden, for example. Maybe Adam or God or someone wanted to have a nice hot pool!

That heat dad, the one heating the pool that you brought up.

This is the point that I lose interest in the thread, when you cannot remember your own conversation from a few hours ago.

I understand that despite claiming this topic is not interesting that you will be unable to help yourself from posting a reply. Understand I am done and have no intention of reading it.

 

[dad]

And with one, all is lost for yours. The difference is, without one...you still lose with regards the Oklo reactor. It's win-lose for me and lose-lose for you.

Rather than what iffing us to death, try actually getting this same state past phantom state first.

Indeed, probably why you have never succeeded.

In...what? I have succeeded in showing science does not know. What else matters, to sideline the godless cult?

And in your world, that is the end of the story. We don't know. We cannot know. Even asking the question is pointless. We'd be living in caves if you ruled the world.

Nope. That is the end of the so called science God opposing stories. Either you now or not. As far as all the little fishbowl earth things man does know and can learn, that is another matter. Science can have some uses, and the bit they actually know can be of some service..

What conditions, and once again, why just Oklo?

If you want to get into all that, lay out the facts. Forget all the imaginary materials that decayed away, and all that, and just list what is actually there. Then look at the surrounding geology. Etc. Surrounding the area is largely stuff that I would suspect got there as a result of the nature change. ..teritray.

That heat dad, the one heating the pool that you brought up.

If the reaction was made by God or man, and involved the time when Eden existed, we would have to ask if this area could have been connected to Eden? We don't know.


However, my guess for the location of Eden is near Jerusalem. Since the continental movements were after that, we would not look for rivers to exist just as they did then!

I do notice a lot of uplift, a rift valley that is close to the Nile area, which may have been close to Eden.

"


In eastern Africa, the valley divides into two, the Western Rift Valley and the Eastern Rift Valley.
The Western Rift, also called the Albertine Rift, is edged by some of the highest mountains in Africa, including the Virunga Mountains, Mitumba Mountains, and Ruwenzori Range. It contains the Rift Valley lakes, which include some of the deepest lakes in the world (up to 1,470 metres deep at Lake Tanganyika). Much of this area lies within the boundaries of national parks such as Virunga National Park in the Democratic Republic of Congo, Rwenzori National Park and Queen Elizabeth National Park in Uganda, and Volcanoes National Park in Rwanda. Lake Victoria, the second largest area freshwater lake in the world, is considered part of the Rift Valley system although it actually lies between the two branches. All of the African Great Lakes were formed as the result of the rift, and most lie within its rift valley."

Great Rift Valley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I also notice that beyond Lake Albert, a river goes to the area.

But, why speculate? Science doesn't know.