discussion with BigChrisfilm

[Clark_98C]

In any case with Baha'ism it is a false religion.

Notice how utterly intolerant of other beliefs the followers of Jesus are?
With Christians, there is no compromise.
I could never believe the Baha'i's simply because they came too late.

And Zoroaster came too late eh?

I'd like a site address please.

I'm reminded of something else Baha'u'llah (I think) said. "If a religion causes the alienation of a group of people, the absense of religion is preferable." Or something like that.

EDIT: I'm really sorry I kinda helped to hijack your thread skeptical, I'm gonna stop now.

 

[I_are_sceptical]

In any case with Baha'ism it is a false religion.

Our religion is not called Baha'ism.

I could never believe

I didn't join CF to get you to believe anything, but to see if you could get ME to give up Baha'u'llah. You have quoted a non-Baha'i book and gotten our name wrong. That does not inspire me with your knowledge and wisdom.

 

[I_are_sceptical]

I'm reminded of something else Baha'u'llah (I think) said. "If a religion causes the alienation of a group of people, the absense of religion is preferable."

That was 'Abdu'l-Baha.

I'm really sorry I kinda helped to hijack your thread skeptical, I'm gonna stop now.

You haven't hijacked it. I have no trouble finding BigChrisfilm's posts. Go right ahead and discuss anything you please.

 

[Clark_98C]

That was 'Abdu'l-Baha.

You haven't hijacked it. I have no trouble finding BigChrisfilm's posts. Go right ahead and discuss anything you please.

Oh, I get them mixed up sometimes.

Alright, I just don't want to be an annoyance.

Guess Ronnee decided to call it quits. I was enjoying our little mind-wrestling match. It helps me because I go find and re-read sections of my books.

 

[I_are_sceptical]

Oh, I get them mixed up sometimes.

I can't exactly claim I don't make mistakes like that, either, and I am a Baha'i.

Alright, I just don't want to be an annoyance.

You're not. I'm glad to have you on the thread.

Maybe Ronnee went to sleep. Where I am, for example, it's after midnight, and I don't think I will be around much longer.

 

[I_are_sceptical]

So, BigChrisfilm, since you are starting threads, are you interested in continuing a discussion with me?

 

[BigChrisfilm]

Please responed to post #112, thanks.

 

[9Harmony]

I agree with you that you are not Christian, but doesn't your relgion tell you to believe Christ is a messanger, and all of the revelations of the Bible were true to that time in history, therefor, your religion should be in agreement with what Christ said correct?

Hi Chris,

Yes, we believe that Christ was a messenger from God, and yes we believe Christ's words, but we may differ in our understanding of what Christ meant.

Our understanding comes from the teachings of Baha'u'llah, who we believe 'unsealed the books', and clarified all of the obtruse meanings in all the former scriptures.

Have a great day!

-Amy

 

[9Harmony]

So your religion doesn't believe that Christ was a true messanger of god?

Yes, we do believe that Christ was a true messenger of God.

My love and respect for Christ has grown tremendously since becoming a Baha'i. I believe that by accepting Baha'u'llah, I have fulfilled my obligation as a Christian to 'seek him'.

take care!

-Amy

 

[BigChrisfilm]

Hi Chris,

Yes, we believe that Christ was a messenger from God, and yes we believe Christ's words, but we may differ in our understanding of what Christ meant.

Our understanding comes from the teachings of Baha'u'llah, who we believe 'unsealed the books', and clarified all of the obtruse meanings in all the former scriptures.

Have a great day!

-Amy

Thanks, BTW, can you explain to me why I are sceptical is saying differently? Also, if I can show you a verse in the bible that says Jesus is god, would that mean you have to believe what it says?

 

[9Harmony]

Thanks, BTW, can you explain to me why I are sceptical is saying differently? Also, if I can show you a verse in the bible that says Jesus is god, would that mean you have to believe what it says?

Hi Chris,

I'll be back in a few hours and answer this, i have company coming in a few minutes so not enough time at the moment.

talk to you soon.

-Amy

 

[Gomez]

In any case with Baha'ism it is a false religion.

Notice how utterly intolerant of other beliefs the followers of Jesus are?
With Christians, there is no compromise.
I could never believe the Baha'i's simply because they came too late.

lol intolerance means truth?

 

[9Harmony]

Thanks, BTW, can you explain to me why I are sceptical is saying differently? Also, if I can show you a verse in the bible that says Jesus is god, would that mean you have to believe what it says?

Hi again,

First of all, it's important to understand that anything a Baha'i says is simply our own limited understanding, unless we quote scripture. Everyone is entitled to have their own opinion, but we are not entitled to say that our opinion is the only way it is. That is why independant investigation of truth is so important, we should investigate for ourselves and come to our own conclusion. So anything I say is simply my own understanding and not an official Baha'i position.

imho i_are_skeptical was stating that we may not necessarily agree with what current Christian doctrine may say that Christ said/meant, (i'm sure he'll correct me if i'm wrong), but we do believe that Christ's teachings were from God.

As for a Bible verse stating the Jesus was God...you have to look at it in conjunction with all of the verses which also state the opposite, and find the meaning woven throughout them all together.

As a Baha'i...I have learned that all of the prophets of God speak with two voices. One the voice of power and authority, the voice of God Himself, and the other as a lowly servant of God. When viewed in this light, there is no contradiction. They all were given the authority by God to speak for Him, but they also were men who gave up any life they could have had in order to deliver God's message to us, and they let us see this side of them as well.

does that help?

have a great day!

-Amy

 

[I_are_sceptical]

So your religion doesn't believe that Christ was a true messanger of god?

Yes, we DO believe that Jesus Christ was a true Messenger of God.

 

[I_are_sceptical]

i_are_skeptical

(i'm sure he'll correct me if i'm wrong)

It's "sceptical" with a "c".

That's not what you thought I was going to correct about your post, was it? lol

In any case, Amy, you and Art know the Faith far better than I do, and I would not presume to "correct" any of your statements.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

imho i_are_skeptical was stating that we may not necessarily agree with what current Christian doctrine may say that Christ said/meant, (i'm sure he'll correct me if i'm wrong), but we do believe that Christ's teachings were from God.

As for a Bible verse stating the Jesus was God...you have to look at it in conjunction with all of the verses which also state the opposite, and find the meaning woven throughout them all together.

What I hear mainly from Islam and Judaism is why did the Christ have to die and why on a "Cross".

The book of Hebrews in the NT does a good job of explaining that, but it is still difficult to explain it in words that can actually be understood. Thoughts?

xulon (Strong's 3586) occurs 19 times in 17 verses:

Acts 13:29 "Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took [Him] down from the tree [#3586] and laid [Him] in a tomb.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed [are] those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree [#3586] of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

3586. xulon xoo'-lon from another form of the base of 3582; timber (as fuel or material); by implication, a stick, club or tree or other wooden article or substance:--staff, stocks, tree, wood.

 

[9Harmony]

It's "sceptical" with a "c".

That's not what you thought I was going to correct about your post, was it? lol

In any case, Amy, you and Art know the Faith far better than I do, and I would not presume to "correct" any of your statements.

oops! i'm sorry

no, that's not what i was referring to. lol! but by all means feel free to correct me any time. otherwise how will i ever learn.

well, my friend, i've been a Baha'i for 13 years and i still feel like a baby in the Faith, i still learn new things every day and foresee that continuing for the rest of my life. I'll be the first to admit that my understanding is fallible and subject to change as I grow.

Have a wonderful day!

-Amy

 

[9Harmony]

What I hear mainly from Islam and Judaism is why did the Christ have to die and why on a "Cross".

The book of Hebrews in the NT does a good job of explaining that, but it is still difficult to explain it in words that can actually be understood. Thoughts?

Hi LLJ,

I see you noticed my response to this in another thread, but so others don't have to go searching i'm reposting it here as well. (btw: thank you for your kind words )

as to the crucifixtion, Baha'i's accept that Christ was crucified (his earthly life was ended), and we understand that when Mohammed said that Christ was not crucified, that He was trying to tell us that no matter what they did to His body, they could not end His life, for the spiritual reality of Christ is what is important. Though the body may no longer sustain life, the spirit lives on. and in this sense Christ's life was not ended and never will be. His reality could never be crucified.

Another factor to consider is that of literalism vs. symbolism. Alot of apparent contradictions are based in a literal view of scripture. But we know that Christ used alot of parables and symbolism to convey his message. So we need to view scripture in light of this possibility, some may be literal, some may be symbolic, some may be both. There are many layers of meaning enshrined in scripture, if we limit ourselves to one, we are missing many valuable insights to be gleaned (imho).

in regards to your comments about tree vs. cross...

i wasn't there so i have no way of knowing for sure. but it's quite possible that tree was used as a metaphor for the cross.

in regards to the 'tree of life', this is one of those literal/symbolic references i was speaking of...(imho) it is a good analogy for religion and the word of God. The root of the tree is source of the word of God, which supports the life of the tree, the trunk could be seen as the manifestation/prophet which takes it's sustenance from the roots and provides that sustenance to us the branches, twigs, leaves, blossoms and fruit.

Also, trees go through seasons (on a yearly scale), as do religions (on a scale of centuries and millenia), when a prophet comes, it can be compared to the springtime when new buds appear. As the religion takes hold and the teachings of the prophets change hearts, the blossoms and fruit appear in summer. As mankind begins to lose sight of the core foundation and the original teachings begin to get obscured, the leaves begin to fall off in autumn. And when we can no longer discern truth from superstition winter sets in. This does not mean that the tree is dead, when springtime comes again with a renewal of God's message, the buds appear again, and although they are not the exact same buds as in the past, they stem from the same source. And the one unfolding religion of God flourishes once again, in the hearts of new generations.

Just thinking out loud.

Have a great day!

-Amy

 

[Abongil]

Thanks, BTW, can you explain to me why I are sceptical is saying differently? Also, if I can show you a verse in the bible that says Jesus is god, would that mean you have to believe what it says?

I kind of want to see this verse. Prolly from the KJV huh?

 

[I_are_sceptical]

oops! i'm sorry

no, that's not what i was referring to. lol! but by all means feel free to correct me any time. otherwise how will i ever learn.

I was joking. Art mis-spells it, too.

well, my friend, i've been a Baha'i for 13 years and i still feel like a baby in the Faith, i still learn new things every day and foresee that continuing for the rest of my life. I'll be the first to admit that my understanding is fallible and subject to change as I grow.

35 years for me, and I'm in the same situation.

Have a wonderful day!

You too.