Discussion on the topic of evolution - Who believes what?

[Distances Travelled]

Hello,

I'm not keen on arguing the case at all. I just hoped that folks here would be able to give me an answer on the below to perhaps ease the concern I'm feeling.

I'll say upright - I was baptised as a child, but I do not have any Christian beliefs. My mother is a very religious lady though, and it's because of her that I'm here.

I would like to know who here believes in evolution and who believes it is a work of fiction. My mother has recently told me that she doesn't believe in evolution - scientists invented it to disprove religion or God, or something of that nature. As she is growing older and she has always seemed otherwise quite rational, I just want to know - is this a common belief held by Christians? From my perspective, it worries me as I can't see how anyone could not believe in evolution (just as, I'm sure most people can't see how I could not believe in God and his great plans), and I feel as though maybe her mind is slipping. But if it is a common belief of Christians/religious people, then I can be reassured that it's just a difference between our beliefs and I needn't worry.

Please understand that I'm explaining from my own mindset and I don't want to come across as disbelieving or unpleasant on the topic - if I didn't explain that I don't believe in creation etc, then it wouldn't really make much sense to you why I was worried about my mother not believing in evolution.

I really hope I've explained this right and without offending anyone, and I look forward to your answers as to your beliefs and opinions on evolution.

 

[Everybodyknows]

My mother has recently told me that she doesn't believe in evolution - scientists invented it to disprove religion or God, or something of that nature. As she is growing older and she has always seemed otherwise quite rational, I just want to know - is this a common belief held by Christians? From my perspective, it worries me as I can't see how anyone could not believe in evolution (just as, I'm sure most people can't see how I could not believe in God and his great plans), and I feel as though maybe her mind is slipping.

It sounds more like a case of her simply accepting a belief because of influences such as family, church, community or culture rather than that her mind is slipping. Like most people she probably has never really explored the issue in enough depth to come to a reason based position. This is common. Most people accept beliefs simply because people they trust say so.

 

[DaisyDay]

I grew up in a fairly Christian environment - nearly everyone I knew went to Sunday school or church - yet it wasn't until I was well past thirty that I ever heard of anyone that didn't accept the Theory of Evolution. I still find it quaint and peculiar.

 

[sfs]

I just want to know - is this a common belief held by Christians?

It's a commonly held belief among Christians, especially evangelical Protestants, in the United States. It is by no means universal even among them, though. It's less common elsewhere. It very much depends on the particular Christian circles she moves in.

 

[mark kennedy]

Hello,

I'm not keen on arguing the case at all. I just hoped that folks here would be able to give me an answer on the below to perhaps ease the concern I'm feeling.

I'll say upright - I was baptised as a child, but I do not have any Christian beliefs. My mother is a very religious lady though, and it's because of her that I'm here.

I would like to know who here believes in evolution and who believes it is a work of fiction. My mother has recently told me that she doesn't believe in evolution - scientists invented it to disprove religion or God, or something of that nature. As she is growing older and she has always seemed otherwise quite rational, I just want to know - is this a common belief held by Christians? From my perspective, it worries me as I can't see how anyone could not believe in evolution (just as, I'm sure most people can't see how I could not believe in God and his great plans), and I feel as though maybe her mind is slipping. But if it is a common belief of Christians/religious people, then I can be reassured that it's just a difference between our beliefs and I needn't worry.

Please understand that I'm explaining from my own mindset and I don't want to come across as disbelieving or unpleasant on the topic - if I didn't explain that I don't believe in creation etc, then it wouldn't really make much sense to you why I was worried about my mother not believing in evolution.

I really hope I've explained this right and without offending anyone, and I look forward to your answers as to your beliefs and opinions on evolution.

The issue isn't evolution, evolution is how traits in populations change over time. The problem is the origin of life and the Scripture is clear God created life. It doesn't make a lot of sense to believe in the promise of eternal life if you don't believe God created life in the first place.

Creation is essential doctrine while creationism is something called natural theology. While it's based on essential doctrine but things like the age of the earth is irrelevant to the doctrine of creation.

 

[AV1611VET]

Hello,

Hello back!

Welcome to CF!

I would like to know who here believes in evolution and who believes it is a work of fiction.

I believe evolution is a work of fiction.

My mother has recently told me that she doesn't believe in evolution -

Your mother is a wise woman.

- scientists invented it to disprove religion or God, or something of that nature.

It was invented to ... as the Bible puts it ... "spoil" us.

To seduce us and lead us away from the Truth (Jesus Christ).

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

As she is growing older and she has always seemed otherwise quite rational, I just want to know - is this a common belief held by Christians?

Not anymore.

It is a Biblical principle in action:

Evolution is tares sown among the wheat of creationism, growing and choking it.

 

[pitabread]

I grew with Christian influence from an early age (we attended church and were friends with some fairly fervent believers).

However, even from a young age I tended to view Bible stories as inherently mythological. This was likely influenced by my fascination with fantasy story-telling and mythology in general. So when it came to stories about the Garden of Eden or Noah and the Ark, I viewed them no differently than something like trials of Hercules. To me they were just examples of fantastical story-telling that people created.

I didn't learn there were people who took those Bible stories literally until I was in my mid-20's. Suffice to say, I was a bit blown away by it at the time. And when I first encountered material from groups like Answers in Genesis, the ICR, etc, some of the arguments they made were very compelling. They do a good job making things sound "science-y" and that if you don't have a deeper understanding of the science involved, it can be hard to spot the problems with what they present.

This is why I think that for a lot of people who don't have much of a scientific background beyond maybe a course or two in high school, creationist propaganda can sound very compelling. And especially so when packed in with a person's pre-existing religious beliefs and surrounding cultural influence. I can understand why creationists aren't quick to modify or give up their existing beliefs.

Ultimately, what I've come to believe is that what creationists believe is irrelevant with respect to the broader sciences. This is one reason I tend to harp on about applied sciences particularly applied evolution. If an application of mammalian phylogenetics applied to genomics research leads to the discovery of traits related to increased milk production in dairy cows which eventually finds its way into a carton of milk in a creationist's fridge, does it really matter if the creationist rejects mammalian phylogenetics? Probably not. They'll still be enjoying the benefits of scientific inquiry and application even if they don't accept the underlying science involved.

 

[Obliquinaut]

It was invented to ... as the Bible puts it ... "spoil" us.

To seduce us and lead us away from the Truth (Jesus Christ).

^^^FALSE^^^^

(Just want to get that out there lest anyone believe AV's opinion. It is not based on truth.)

Evolution is tares sown among the wheat of creationism, growing and choking it.

You may believe this but of course it is nothing of the sort. Evolution was developed as a means to explain the variability of life we see all around us.

You see, when one characterizes a thing they disagree with as a lie one eliminates the possibility that someone could be quite innocently mistaken. It could be that evolution is "wrong" (unlikely but possible) and that evolutionary biologists simply made an honest mistake.

But that isn't what you are saying: you are saying it was developed as LIE. The difference between me saying we have paper towels when my wife asks before we go to the store. If I am simply misremembering versus me intentionally misleading her.

Perhaps you guys don't actually think the scientists wanted to work for the devil (although you are usually so loose with your language that it winds up looking like you are saying that), but the alternative is that the scientists are simply dupes too stupid to see they are being played by the devil.

Either way it's grossly insulting to people who do things you don't actually understand the technical details of.

And that is the most interesting aspect. I've seen so many Creationists spout the most ridiculous misrepresentations of science as critiques of science.

In the end it is the sin of pride that leads Creationists to critique things they don't understand and be proud of their lack of understanding. They are pure of heart and it is easy. It is the WIDE PATH.

But since we aren't debating evolution and creation here, let us agree that scientists didn't develop evolution to lead you to hell and let us give them credit that they are not working in Satan's service.

Perhaps that would be moderate position to discuss the reason for belief or disbelief of a proposition.

I will tell you why I think Creationism was developed as an idea. I think people honestly and earnestly wanted to understand a world they found around them. Lacking sufficient detailed information they developed stories to explain the life we see around us. All created honestly and earnestly. Things they might have simply guessed at and later generations came to believe implicitly.

I believe it to be incorrect, but I think creationists are honestly convinced of its truth and I don't think anyone is lying about their beliefs.

(NOW, creationists that selective hide science in order to bolster their positions or who act unethically in the science to make it seem that Creationism is scientific are an entirely other matter, but generally Creationism is a sincerely held belief, even if it is only a small group of Christians who hold to that).

 

[dysert]

The problem is the origin of life and the Scripture is clear God created life.

As I understand it, that's only one of the problems. The other is the idea of a "common ancestor" for all of life. To say that humans, animals, fish, birds, etc., all came from a common ancestor is also contrary to Scripture.

 

[AV1611VET]

You see, when one characterizes a thing they disagree with as a lie one eliminates the possibility that someone could be quite innocently mistaken. It could be that evolution is "wrong" (unlikely but possible) and that evolutionary biologists simply made an honest mistake.

If it helps any, I'm fully aware of the fact that a lie is an untruth, conveyed with the intent to deceive.

 

[Aman777]

I would like to know who here believes in evolution and who believes it is a work of fiction.

Evolution is nothing more than genetic changes within His and Their kinds in a population over time. Godless people removed God from His own Creation by changing descending within the kinds Jesus made and the kinds which God the Trinity made, into the godless term "evolution". In the end everyone will see that the forced teaching of godless evolution will bring increased punishment for those who offend little children who believe in Jesus. Mat 18:6

 

[xianghua]

As I understand it, that's only one of the problems. The other is the idea of a "common ancestor" for all of life. To say that humans, animals, fish, birds, etc., all came from a common ancestor is also contrary to Scripture.

not only to scripture but also to some scientific evidence.

 

[xianghua]

Hello,

I'm not keen on arguing the case at all. I just hoped that folks here would be able to give me an answer on the below to perhaps ease the concern I'm feeling.

I'll say upright - I was baptised as a child, but I do not have any Christian beliefs. My mother is a very religious lady though, and it's because of her that I'm here.

I would like to know who here believes in evolution and who believes it is a work of fiction. My mother has recently told me that she doesn't believe in evolution - scientists invented it to disprove religion or God, or something of that nature. As she is growing older and she has always seemed otherwise quite rational, I just want to know - is this a common belief held by Christians? From my perspective, it worries me as I can't see how anyone could not believe in evolution (just as, I'm sure most people can't see how I could not believe in God and his great plans), and I feel as though maybe her mind is slipping. But if it is a common belief of Christians/religious people, then I can be reassured that it's just a difference between our beliefs and I needn't worry.

Please understand that I'm explaining from my own mindset and I don't want to come across as disbelieving or unpleasant on the topic - if I didn't explain that I don't believe in creation etc, then it wouldn't really make much sense to you why I was worried about my mother not believing in evolution.

I really hope I've explained this right and without offending anyone, and I look forward to your answers as to your beliefs and opinions on evolution.

hi. first: there are indeed scientific evidence against evolution (you can see one of them in my signature link below). so your mother is quite smart if she choose not to believe in evolution. second: evolution is just a theory, so basically there is no way to prove it. even by a scientific standard (for instance: according to evolution both banana and human shared a common descent- we cant realy prove that). there are many scientists (including biologists) who dont believe in evolution (although the majority still believe in evolution, but the majority doesnt count in science, just evidence).

 

[mark kennedy]

As I understand it, that's only one of the problems. The other is the idea of a "common ancestor" for all of life. To say that humans, animals, fish, birds, etc., all came from a common ancestor is also contrary to Scripture.

In my opinion it's contrary to what we know about the laws of inheritance, see my signature. But your right, Genesis uses a special word translated 'created' its only used five times and its an absolute term. Its used to speak of the creation of the heavens and the earth once, the creation of life in general once, then it is used three times in connection with the creation of Adam and Eve. Every time Adam is spoken of in the New Testament he is spoken of as the first parent of humanity, Paul devotes Roman 5 to Adam. 400 times in the Old Testamenr Adam is used syonymously with humanity, the same way Israel is the name of the father of the Hebrews, and the nation of Israel. Like I sais, I dont see how you can be trusting him for eternal life if you dont believe he created life in the first place.

 

[pitabread]

second: evolution is just a theory, so basically there is no way to prove it.

Scientific theory - Wikipedia

 

[Speedwell]

I dont see how you can be trusting him for eternal life if you dont believe he created life in the first place.

Because you are making assumptions about the Bible, and about the beliefs of Christians who put their trust in Christ without agreeing with you about the Bible.

 

[Everybodyknows]

evolution is just a theory,

I give you the winner star for being first to say this

Only 13 posts till we get 'evolution is just a theory'! Well done people. Let's wrap it up now.

 

[mark kennedy]

Scientific theory - Wikipedia

Don't you just love Wikipedia, it really does little to inform the understanding if you don't even bother to read it:

A scientific theory is an explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested, in accordance with the scientific method, by using a predefined protocol of observations and experiments. Established scientific theories have withstood rigorous scrutiny and are a comprehensive form of scientific knowledge.

It is important to note that the definition of a "scientific theory" (often contracted to "theory" for the sake of brevity, including in this page) as used in the disciplines of science is significantly different from the common vernacular usage of the word "theory". In everyday non-scientific speech, "theory" can imply that something is an unsubstantiated and speculative guess, conjecture, idea, or, hypothesis; such a usage is the opposite of the word "theory" in science. These different usages are comparable to the differing, and often opposing, usages of the term "prediction" in science versus "prediction" in vernacular speech, denoting a mere hope. (Scientific theory, Wikipedia)
​

Science is an epistomology (theory of knowledge) that explores and explains natural phenomenon. It's pointless to compare a theory of origins, which is what Darwinism and Creationism actually is, with a scientific theory because the subject of origins is metaphysics.

Metaphysics is the branch of philosophy concerned with the nature of existence, being and the world. Arguably, metaphysics is the foundation of philosophy: Aristotle calls it "first philosophy" (or sometimes just "wisdom"), and says it is the subject that deals with "first causes and the principles of things".

It asks questions like: "What is the nature of reality?", "How does the world exist, and what is its origin or source of creation?", "Does the world exist outside the mind?", "How can the incorporeal mind affect the physical body?", "If things exist, what is their objective nature?", "Is there a God (or many gods, or no god at all)?" (The Basics of Philosophy, Metaphysics)
​

The development of modern science goes back to the Scientific Revolution where the inductive approach to the study of natural phenomenon was established as the very definition of science. What resulted was tools, mental and physical which saw the emergence of the principles of motion, starting with the Y-squared and culminating with the first application of calculus to predicting the course comet by Issac Newton in Principia.

No one in these discussions have the slightest interest in scientific theory or adaptive evolution in the life sciences. It's an intellectual and philosophical clash of worldviews, Creationism based on the miraculous wonders of God revealed in Scripture and the naturalistic assumptions of Darwinian natural history.

Nurs'd by warm sun-beams in primeval caves
Organic Life began beneath the waves. (The Temple of Nature By Erasmus Darwin)​

Darwinism is a philosophy of origins ultimately, but the stone age ape man is a myth.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Tutorman]

I would like to know who here believes in evolution and who believes it is a work of fiction. My mother has recently told me that she doesn't believe in evolution - scientists invented it to disprove religion or God, or something of that nature. As she is growing older and she has always seemed otherwise quite rational, I just want to know - is this a common belief held by Christians?

I agree with your mother, a wise women. Evolution is a fairy tale so belief in God could be explained away.

 

[pitabread]

Evolution is a fairy tale so belief in God could be explained away.

That's what some creationists believe since they appear to be more interested in making this about atheism versus theism. However, this isn't borne out in reality given the sheer number of theists who believe in God and also accept the Theory of Evolution as valid science. Which in the latter case it is valid including having scientific application in fields of applied biology.