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Hi! Can you explain how Bush's invasion is destroying the "Islamic way of Life"?muslim_convert said:According to the experts, the aim of OBL is to expel Western forces from Arab/Muslim lands. In so far as these forces have prevented Muslims from practicing their religion and defending their lands, then I can not see any issue, from a Shariah point of view, in this goal. However, his methods have been to deliberatly target innocent civilians, effectively replicating the methods employed by the West or Israel. This goes against the Shariah.
The goal of Pres Bush and co. appears to be control of worlds resources and he has had natural allies among conservative Christian leaders seeking the destruction of Islam as a way of life. Their method is to support regimes in the middle east which has lead to countless deaths and suffering, as well as starving Iraqis and bringing about the deaths of 100s of thousands of children in order to depose Saddam. More recently, they have resorted to invasion and they reserve for themselves the right to use nuclear weapons.
Both the intention and the methods of the West are immoral.
So when you look at the actions and goals of a few Muslim vigilantes against the actions and goals of a democratically elected national leader, cheered on by equally prominent Christian leaders, there is no contest.
So a reminder:
Hypocrite, first take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to remove the splinter from your brother's eye. Mathew 7:5
& encouraging muslim converts to take up an arabic name is not cultural imperialism?bless_sins said:As far as I can see, it is not just the Islamic way of life bieng destroyed, its the western one too. Here in Canada our culture is bieng taken over by the American. India, foreign cultures are destroying their great millenia old traditions. Many Indians are ditching their native tongues and lining up to learn English.
Cultures are under attack everywhere. Linguists estimate, that on average, a different language goes exctinct or is endangered every 6 days.
What Bush has to do with it, I don't know. But this policy is called "cultural imperialism",a dn is conducted by more powerful countries to crush the weaker ones.
elijah115 said:And do these reports blame the US, US christians, christians or the UN sanctitions on Iraq?
Kris_J said:& encouraging muslim converts to take up an arabic name is not cultural imperialism?
Oh goody (you can call it multicultural as you want but we know christian evangelisation is not tolerated in Islamic countries). Then you can answer how your Islamic way of life is destroyed by living in Canada/Iraq.bless_sins said:Muslim converts can keep thier name. There have been many many muslim converts (eg. Jeffrey Lang), keep thier name.
Some Muslim converts, choose to get name themselves after one of the Prophets in the Quran, and that is their choice.
No one culture is subjugating another. Infact, different cultures have affected the image of Islam. For example, you must have heard of "samosas". "Samosas" have little to do with Arabia, yet today they are identified with the Muslim tradtion of fasting. And because of that, they are quite popular in Arabia.
The reason why Islam is sooo mulit-cultural is that it tries to bring everyone togethor.
Every years, millions come to Mecca, from all over the world. These people share their culture and get know each other. This creates an atmosphere of respect for other cultures.
If you ever hapen to visit Mecca, you will find that there are restaurants that provide whole range of multi-cultural food. There are shops that cater specifically to differnt cultures. Do you see that happening in Jerusalem, or the Vatican?
Kris_J said:Hi! Can you explain how Bush's invasion is destroying the "Islamic way of Life"?
You appear to reside in Australia, how much is your "Islamic way of life" destroyed by living in a western occupied country?
Perhaps you are confusing "Islamic way of life" with "Iraqi way of life".
http://www.islamonline.net/English/Views/2006/02/article07.shtmlMuslims and the West: A Culture War?
By John L. Esposito**
Islamic Studies – Georgetown University
Feb. 14, 2006
Demonstration in Montreal, Canada, on Feb 11, witnessed signs such as "liberty of speech is sacred" (L) and "It is mean what you are doing to Prophet Muhammad" (R)
Newspaper cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad have set off an international row with dangerous consequences, both short and long term. The controversial caricatures first published in Denmark and then in other European newspapers, target Muhammad and Islam and equate them with extremism and terrorism. In response to outcries and demonstrations across the Muslim world, the media has justified these cartoons as freedom of expression; France's France Soir and Germany's Die Welt ass\erted a "right to caricature God" and a "right to blasphemy," respectively.
One of the first questions I have been asked about this conflict by media from Europe, the US, and Latin America has been "Is Islam incompatible with Western values?" Are we seeing a culture war? Before jumping to that conclusion, we should ask, whose Western democratic and secular values are we talking about? Is it a Western secularism that privileges no religion in order to provide space for all religions and to protect belief and unbelief alike? Or is it a Western "secular fundamentalism" that is anti-religious and increasingly, post 9/11, anti-Islam?
What we are witnessing today has little to do with Western democratic values and everything to do with a European media that reflects and plays to an increasingly xenophobic and Islamaphobic society. The cartoons seek to test and provoke; they are not ridiculing Osama bin Laden or Abu Musab al-Zarqawi but mocking Muslims' most sacred symbols and values as they hide behind the façade of freedom of expression. The win-win for the media is that explosive headline events, reporting them or creating them, also boosts sales. The rush to reprint the Danish cartoons has been as much about profits as about the prophet of Islam. Respected European newspapers have acted more like tabloids.
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The cartoons drive a wedge between the West and moderate Muslims.
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What is driving Muslim responses? At first blush, the latest Muslim outcries seem to reinforce the post 9/11 question of some pundits: "Why do they hate us?" with an answer that has become "conventional wisdom": "They hate our success, democracy, freedoms…"—a facile and convenient as well as wrong-headed response. Such answers fail to recognize that the core issues in this "culture war" are about faith, Muhammad's central role in Islam, and the respect and love that he enjoys as the paradigm to be emulated. They are also more broadly about identity, respect (or lack of it) and public humiliation. Would the mainstream media with impunity publish caricatures of Jews or of the holocaust? As France's Grand Rabbi Joseph Sitruk observed: "We gain nothing by lowering religions, humiliating them and making caricatures of them. It's a lack of honesty and respect," he said. He said freedom of expression 'is not a right without limits'." (AP Feb 3)
A recently completed Gallup World Poll, that surveyed Muslims from Morocco to Indonesia, enables us to find data-based answers about Islam by listening to the voices of a billion Muslims. This ground-breaking Gallup study provides a context and serves as a reality check on the causes for widespread outrage.
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Freedom of religion in a pluralistic society ought to mean that some things are sacred and treated as such.
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When asked to describe what Western societies could do to improve relations with the Arab/Muslim world, by far the most frequent reply (47% in Iran, 46% in Saudi Arabia, 43% in Egypt, 41% in Turkey, etc.) was that they should demonstrate more understanding and respect for Islam, show less prejudice, and not denigrate what Islam stands for. At the same time, large numbers of Muslims cite the West's technological success and its liberty and freedom of speech as what they most admire. When asked if they would include a provision for Freedom of Speech, defined as allowing all citizens to express their opinion on political, social and economic issues of the day if they were drafting a constitution for a new country, overwhelming majorities (94% in Egypt, 97% in Bangladesh, 98% in Lebanon etc.) in every country surveyed responded yes, they would.
Cartoons defaming the Prophet and Islam by equating them with terrorism are inflammatory. They reinforce Muslim grievances, humiliation and social marginalization and drive a wedge between the West and moderate Muslims, unwittingly playing directly into the hands of extremists. They also reinforce autocratic rulers who charge that democracy is anti-religious and incompatible with Islam.
Where Do We Go From Here?
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Islamophobia should be as unacceptable as anti-Semitism, a threat to the very fabric of our democratic pluralistic way of life.
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By the US' seeking to more closely incorporate Europe in its hegemonic designs in the Muslim world, and Europe’s seeming readiness to do so, the West would be greatly enhancing the dominant view among many that this is in fact a clash of civilizations and an anti-Islamic crusade that is guided by an Islamophobic West. Recent revelations involving the degradation of the Koran by US interrogators in Guantanamo Bay and the EU’s absurd display of solidarity with Denmark in the recent cartoon controversy which inflamed Muslim passions, is further proof, in the eyes of many Muslims and Westerners alike, that a clash of civilizations is being fueled by the West.
This is further augmented if one notes how Rumsfeld described Europe and the US during the Munich conference not only as partners with common strategic interests but rather as the “civilized world” and as “a community, with shared histories, common values, and an abiding faith in democracy” facing a war that was declared by forces wishing to establish “a global extremist Islamic empire.”
Rumsfeld’s whimsical, self-serving depiction of the conflict leaves no room for any criticism of the West. In fact, during his speech at the Munich conference we do not see any attempt made to distinguish between the goals of various Islamic movements nor do we see any acknowledgement of America’s failed policies in Iraq or the role that the West had historically played in creating many of the legitimate grievances that Muslims repeatedly mention. Instead, Rumsfeld reiterated the convenient, self-gratifying cliché that the conflict is within the Muslim world, as Muslims are constantly depicted as hopelessly struggling to come to terms with the benevolent message of freedom that the West is supposedly busy propagating.
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The US’ newly declared strategic posture aims at the liquidation of whatever is left of the concept of national soveregnty.
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Core principles and values, like freedom of speech, cannot be compromised. However, freedoms do not exist in a vacuum; they do not function without limits. In many countries, hate speech (such as holocaust denial, incitement to racial hatred, advocating genocide) is a criminal offense prohibited under incitement to hatred legislation. Our Western secular democracies represent not only freedom of expression but also freedom of religion. Belief as well as unbelief needs to be protected. Freedom of religion in a pluralistic society ought to mean that some things are sacred and treated as such. The Islamophobia which is becoming a social cancer should be as unacceptable as anti-Semitism, a threat to the very fabric of our democratic pluralistic way of life. Thus, it is imperative for political and religious leaders, commentators and experts, and yes, the media, to lead in building and safeguarding our cherished values.
And what about Muslim responses? Muslim leaders are hard pressed to take charge, asserting their faith and rights as citizens, affirming freedom of expression while rejecting its abuse as a cover for prejudice. A sharp line must be drawn between legitimate forms of dissent and violent demonstrations or attacks on embassies that inflame the situation, and reinforce Western stereotypes. The many Muslim leaders, from America and Europe to the Muslim world, who have publicly urged restraint and strongly condemned violence, play a critical role.
Globalization and an increasingly multicultural and multi-religious West test the mettle of our cherished democratic values. As the current cartoon controversy underscores, pluralism and tolerance today demand greater mutual understanding and respect from non-Muslims and Muslims alike.
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**John L. Esposito is Professor of Religion and International Affairs and of Islamic Studies at Georgetown University. He is the founding director of the Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding, a consultant to the Department of State as well as corporations, universities, and the media worldwide. He is also author of What Everyone Needs to Know about Islam, Unholy War: Terror in the Name of Islam, and co-author of the forthcoming, "Can you Hear Me Now: What a Billion Muslims are Trying to Tell Us."
LoL! If he was a serious muslim, he would outline how Muslims are prevented from practicing the 5 Pillars of Islam therefore their "Islamic way of life" is being destroyed.elijah115 said:lol..... what a simple question he had to answer !
the article shows that Muslims have basically the same aspirations as those in the West, but with the difference that the Qur'aan and the Prophet our central to our lives (as reflected in the demand for respect of the religion).muslim_convert said:Perhaps you should read the following article by John Espisito an eminant Scholar in Islamic society (non-Muslim).
http://www.islamonline.net/English/Views/2006/02/article07.shtml
The west is culturally critical of anything religious. Do you deny them their cultural inclination criticise the influence of Muhammed's conquest? Historically, western cultures also use cartoons by way of criticism. Do you deny their cultural practice?muslim_convert said:the article shows that Muslims have basically the same aspirations as those in the West, but with the difference that the Qur'aan and the Prophet our central to our lives (as reflected in the demand for respect of the religion).
Muslims are not asking that the West adopt Islam, only that they respect their relation with Allah and their Prophet and not set out to destroy it.
salaams
I_are_sceptical said:Perhaps for the same reason that Christians in the United States did not riot against the Militias when two Christian American terrorists blew up the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City eleven years ago, killing 168 people including dozens of children in a day care center.
I once asked a Master in Psychology graduate of Australia and a westernised Muslim whether she saw a distinction between her religion & her culture. She answered she does not.That's what makes me, a home-grown Aussie and an Iraqi of the same culture.
muslim_convert said:According to the experts, the aim of OBL is to expel Western forces from Arab/Muslim lands. In so far as these forces have prevented Muslims from practicing their religion and defending their lands, then I can not see any issue, from a Shariah point of view, in this goal. However, his methods have been to deliberatly target innocent civilians, effectively replicating the methods employed by the West or Israel. This goes against the Shariah.
The goal of Pres Bush and co. appears to be control of worlds resources and he has had natural allies among conservative Christian leaders seeking the destruction of Islam as a way of life. Their method is to support regimes in the middle east which has lead to countless deaths and suffering, as well as starving Iraqis and bringing about the deaths of 100s of thousands of children in order to depose Saddam. More recently, they have resorted to invasion and they reserve for themselves the right to use nuclear weapons.
Both the intention and the methods of the West are immoral.
So when you look at the actions and goals of a few Muslim vigilantes against the actions and goals of a democratically elected national leader, cheered on by equally prominent Christian leaders, there is no contest.
So a reminder:
Hypocrite, first take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to remove the splinter from your brother's eye. Mathew 7:5
. Are these "children" armed or otherwise violently demonstrating? If no to either, were the real terrorists hiding in the midst of innocents as they're known for doing? This is usually the case.And what about the Jews who roll in with tanks and shoot at children... that's not terrorism?
. Pure rhetoric. Not very surprising.You have to be musilm for your actions to be considered a form of terrorism
Et tu, Brute??This is the type of hypocrisy that makes people like you so utterly laughable.
Congrats, you got one right!In the UK, they have their own breed of terrorists... the IRA - They're all catholic.
Kris_J said:The west is culturally critical of anything religious. Do you deny them their cultural inclination criticise the influence of Muhammed's conquest? Historically, western cultures also use cartoons by way of criticism. Do you deny their cultural practice?
salaamsIn the name of Allah, the Benificent, the Merciful
قُلْ يَا أَيُّهَا الْكَافِرُونَ
109.1 . Say : O disbelievers!
لَا أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ
109.2 . I worship not that which ye worship ;
وَلَا أَنتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ
109.3 . Nor worship ye that which I worship .
وَلَا أَنَا عَابِدٌ مَّا عَبَدتُّمْ
109.4 . And I shall not worship that which ye worship .
وَلَا أَنتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ
109.5 . Nor will ye worship that which I worship .
لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ
109.6 . Unto you your religion , and unto me my religion .
FadingWhispers3 said:Both the intention and the methods of the West are immoral.
I don't understand. Is the perception of Muslims that all Americans are Neo-Conservatives?
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