Disciple Jesus "used to love?"

[Neogaia777]

Two questions

In John 19:25-27- It says "By the torture stake (cross) of Jesus, there were standing his mother and the sister of his mother, Mary, the wife of Clopas and Mary Magdalene" 26- "Therefore, Jesus, seeing his mother and the disciple whom Jesus loved standing by, said to his mother, "woman see, your son!"" 27- "Next he said to the disciple, "See!, your mother" and from that hour the disciple took her to his home."

My question is: Isn't Jesus mother the wife of Joseph, not Clopas... What happened? Did she re-marry? How do we explain this discrepancy? And another question: Whom is this "disciple" whom Jesus "loved"? Is it (is this) the same disciple that in John 21:7, and in John 21:20-22, where it says the disciple that Jesus used to love? How is it that he (Jesus) formerly "loved" him, but now, after his resurrection he calls him the disciple that Jesus used to love? Does he not "love" him any longer and why, what made him "change his mind"? Who is this disciple? What is his name? Is it the same disciple that ran ahead of Peter to the memorial tomb? Who is he?

John 21:7- "Therefore that disciple whom Jesus used to love said to Peter "It is the Lord!" Hence, Simon Peter, upon hearing that it was the Lord, girded about himself his top garment, for he was naked, and plunged into the sea."

John 21:20-22- "Upon turning about Peter saw the disciple whom Jesus used to love following, this is the one who at the evening meal had also leaned back upon the Lords breast and said "Lord, who is the one betraying you?"" 21- "Accordingly, when he caught sight of him, Peter said to Jesus: "Lord, what will this man do?" 22- "Jesus said to him, "If it is my will for him to remain until I come, of what concern is that to you?" You keep following me."

So, my question is about Mary, Jesus mother, did she re-marry, or what? And, about this disciple "whom Jesus used to love"? Why did he love him formerly, and what made him change his mind, and who is this disciple, what is his name?

Any help any of you can give me would be greatly appreciated, all thanks and prayers be with you, thanks, Jay.

 

[MaidforHim]

KJV says:
Jhn 19:25 ¶Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

Wait.... editing, at first I thought they were saying Mary's sister was the wife of Cleophas, but it sounds like they are distinguishing between Marys,
Mary the mother of Jesus
Mary the wife of Cleophas and
Mary Magdalene.

Common name appearantly.

 

[MaidforHim]

The Disciple Jesus loved...

I remember learning in a study that John liked to refer to himself as "The Disciple Jesus loved" and sometimes in a funny way when speaking to/about Peter. Peter being the rock, oldest of the group, big brother type and John being the youngest, little brother type who would have looked up to Jesus in a special way. Can't remember the verses to back that up so I will try to find them.

Maybe someone else knows?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

John 21:20

King James Version (KJV)

20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

 

[MaidforHim]

John 21:20

King James Version (KJV)

20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

There it is... that's the one... I couldn't remember and it was driving me crazy

 

[concretecamper]

Two questions

In John 19:25-27- It says "By the torture stake (cross) of Jesus, there were standing his mother and the sister of his mother, Mary, the wife of Clopas and Mary Magdalene" 26- "Therefore, Jesus, seeing his mother and the disciple whom Jesus loved standing by, said to his mother, "woman see, your son!"" 27- "Next he said to the disciple, "See!, your mother" and from that hour the disciple took her to his home."

My question is: Isn't Jesus mother the wife of Joseph, not Clopas... What happened? Did she re-marry? How do we explain this discrepancy? And another question: Whom is this "disciple" whom Jesus "loved"? Is it (is this) the same disciple that in John 21:7, and in John 21:20-22, where it says the disciple that Jesus used to love? How is it that he (Jesus) formerly "loved" him, but now, after his resurrection he calls him the disciple that Jesus used to love? Does he not "love" him any longer and why, what made him "change his mind"? Who is this disciple? What is his name? Is it the same disciple that ran ahead of Peter to the memorial tomb? Who is he?

John 21:7- "Therefore that disciple whom Jesus used to love said to Peter "It is the Lord!" Hence, Simon Peter, upon hearing that it was the Lord, girded about himself his top garment, for he was naked, and plunged into the sea."

John 21:20-22- "Upon turning about Peter saw the disciple whom Jesus used to love following, this is the one who at the evening meal had also leaned back upon the Lords breast and said "Lord, who is the one betraying you?"" 21- "Accordingly, when he caught sight of him, Peter said to Jesus: "Lord, what will this man do?" 22- "Jesus said to him, "If it is my will for him to remain until I come, of what concern is that to you?" You keep following me."

So, my question is about Mary, Jesus mother, did she re-marry, or what? And, about this disciple "whom Jesus used to love"? Why did he love him formerly, and what made him change his mind, and who is this disciple, what is his name?

Any help any of you can give me would be greatly appreciated, all thanks and prayers be with you, thanks, Jay.

The disciple standing with Mary His Mother is John.

 

[Alithis]

1st...can i get clarification on where it says the disciple Jesus "used" to love ? iv never read that word in the text..?

and re-

woman behold, your son!"" 27- "Next he said to the disciple, ", your mother" and from that hour the disciple took her to his home."

i have always understood this to be The Lord saying to mary that she was to now to regard John as her son -in place of Jesus..who is now her LORD,as he was returning to God from whence he came..and God is before all having created all,thus he has no mother.
and to John he was charging him to look after her as one would his own mother.

this fits with the other times the Lord denies mary..
"woman what have i to do with thee"... once he entered his ministry he never defers to Mary again...and never calls her "mother"
and when they said ,"your mother and brothers are outside..."
Again he denies her,,saying his mother and brothers are they who do gods will...(not they whose family he was birthed into.)

so again to mary he says...of john,look ,hes you son (now)
and to john ..of mary he says look,she is as your mother now..
John had no problem understanding this..because..."from that day on he took her into "his" house..(family)

 

[concretecamper]

1st...can i get clarification on where it says the disciple Jesus "used" to love ? iv never read that word in the text..?

and re-
i have always understood this to be The Lord saying to mary that she was to now to regard John as her son -in place of Jesus..who is now her LORD,as he was returning to God from whence he came..and God is before all having created all,thus he has no mother.
and to John he was charging him to look after her as one would his own mother.

this fits with the other times the Lord denies mary..
"woman what have i to do with thee"... once he entered his ministry he never defers to Mary again...and never calls her "mother"
and when they said ,"your mother and brothers are outside..."
Again he denies her,,saying his mother and brothers are they who do gods will...(not they whose family he was birthed into.)

so again to mary he says...of john,look ,hes you son (now)
and to john ..of mary he says look,she is as your mother now..
John had no problem understanding this..because..."from that day on he took her into "his" house..(family)

I think Augustine, Chrysostom, and Jerome would have a slightly different take. But then again, these guys lived in the 4th century and did not have the benefit of modern translations and interpretations. I would encourage everyone to research what these 3 had to say on the passage from Matthew 12:46-50.

 

[talitha]

The word "loved" is in the past tense to agree grammatically with the rest of the story.

 

[Alithis]

The word "loved" is in the past tense to agree grammatically with the rest of the story.

i can see it that way .yes ty.

i suppose it is the supporting words around it .(i dont know the correct terminology lol)

as in, I am loved.. causes it to of present tense.

 

[Shimshon]

The same greek word is used in the infamous verse :

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life.

Yet we know that God still loves us presently.

The use of this word does not automatically imply or mean 'past' tense.

When you say you 'loved' a movie you don't mean you dislike it now do you? It means you had prior interation with it.

The disciple Jesus loved means that he had love for him and continues to have love for him. It does not mean he no longer loves him.

 

[Alithis]

I think Augustine, Chrysostom, and Jerome would have a slightly different take. But then again, these guys lived in the 4th century and did not have the benefit of modern translations and interpretations. I would encourage everyone to research what these 3 had to say on the passage from Matthew 12:46-50.

to be honest im inclined always to the teaching of the Holy Spirit over and above any men.i have what is plainly written before me and no agenda to force its alignment to.coupled with the wonderful promised Holy Spirit of whom the lord said, "he"will lead you into all truth.
thus the word written and the word living and speaking as the Holy spirit, must agree on any doctrine. only then ,in that unity does the lord give me assurance that a doctrine being taught is all truth.

i say this only to display where i am coming from and why i do not easily accept mens teachings. because in many,too many cases,the lord simply says to me,"That is not of me", thus the Word speaking as the Holy Spirit
discerns truth from other and cuts the two asunder.he began this in me by expelling many of my own religious stances.
we must receive and Obey the Holy Spirit ,as it is written,
"Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His..."

 

[Alithis]

The same greek word is used in the infamous verse :

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life.

Yet we know that God still loves us presently.

The use of this word does not automatically imply or mean 'past' tense.

When you say you 'loved' a movie you don't mean you dislike it now do you? It means you had prior interation with it.

The disciple Jesus loved means that he had love for him and continues to have love for him. It does not mean he no longer loves him.

 

[paul1149]

Another possibility is that there are four women in that verse:

his mother
and his mother's sister,
Mary the wife of Clopas,
and Mary Magdalene.

We have no original punctuation, so I don't think we can determine this on internal evidence. But this gets away from the potential awkwardness of two Marys in the same family.

Not sure if this was mentioned here, but the tense of "loved" in v 26 is imperfect. This refers to something that existed at the time in focus, and which continued existing afterward.

 

[Neogaia777]

So, did Jesus "used to" "love" this disciple before his cruxifiction, and no longer "did" afterward, or not? Is it possible for Jesus to "love" you, or one, and then do something or something just "happen" (or not) to make Jesus not love you any longer?

More on this disciple... we still don't "know" his identity? But in John 21:20-25- (Upon turning about Peter saw the disciple whom Jesus "used to love" following, the one who at the evening meal had also leaned back upon (Jesus) breast and said: "Lord, who is the one betraying you?" 21- Accordingly, when he caught sight of him, Peter said to Jesus: "Lord, what will this man do?" 22- Jesus said to him (Peter): "If it is my will for him to remain until I come, of what concern is that to you? You (Peter) continue following me." 23- In consequence, this saying went out among the brothers that that disciple would not die. However, Jesus did not say to him that he would not die but: "If it is my will for him to remain until I come, of what concern is that to you? 24- This is the disciple that bears witness about these things and that wrote these things, and we know that the witness he gives is true. 25- There are, in fact, many other things also which Jesus did, which, if they were ever written in full detail, I suppose the world itself could not contain the scrolls written.")

Now where it says "this is the disciple that bears witness about these things, and wrote these things and we know that the witness he gives is true" Is he referring to the disciple that Jesus "used to love"?

And one other thing when, at the last supper, Jesus said "I say to you, one of you here will betray me" All the other apostles/disciples fell to saying among themselves, "It is not I, is it Lord?" In fact, the only one "not" saying this (about himself) was the one who (I assume) was in the bosom position with Jesus and the one who leaned back upon his (Jesus) breast, and was saying "Lord, who is it?" but this one was the only one who did not suspect he himself of such a thing, I just find that curious?

 

[Alithis]

So, did Jesus "used to" "love" this disciple before his cruxifiction, and no longer "did" afterward, or not? Is it possible for Jesus to "love" you, or one, and then do something or something just "happen" (or not) to make Jesus not love you any longer?

More on this disciple... we still don't "know" his identity? But in John 21:20-25- (Upon turning about Peter saw the disciple whom Jesus "used to love" following, the one who at the evening meal had also leaned back upon (Jesus) breast and said: "Lord, who is the one betraying you?" 21- Accordingly, when he caught sight of him, Peter said to Jesus: "Lord, what will this man do?" 22- Jesus said to him (Peter): "If it is my will for him to remain until I come, of what concern is that to you? You (Peter) continue following me." 23- In consequence, this saying went out among the brothers that that disciple would not die. However, Jesus did not say to him that he would not die but: "If it is my will for him to remain until I come, of what concern is that to you? 24- This is the disciple that bears witness about these things and that wrote these things, and we know that the witness he gives is true. 25- There are, in fact, many other things also which Jesus did, which, if they were ever written in full detail, I suppose the world itself could not contain the scrolls written.")

Now where it says "this is the disciple that bears witness about these things, and wrote these things and we know that the witness he gives is true" Is he referring to the disciple that Jesus "used to love"?

And one other thing when, at the last supper, Jesus said "I say to you, one of you here will betray me" All the other apostles/disciples fell to saying among themselves, "It is not I, is it Lord?" In fact, the only one "not" saying this (about himself) was the one who (I assume) was in the bosom position with Jesus and the one who leaned back upon his (Jesus) breast, and was saying "Lord, who is it?" but this one was the only one who did not suspect he himself of such a thing, I just find that curious?

again .. i ask .. where does it say "used to " in the text ?

 

[Neogaia777]

again .. i ask .. where does it say "used to " in the text ?

It must Just be the translation I'm using, I just checked my king James and says the disciple Jesus loved, but which translation is correct?

 

[Alithis]

It must Just be the translation I'm using, I just checked my king James and says the disciple Jesus loved, but which translation is correct?

well since most here have determined that the term "loved " is both past and present .. i would drop the words "used to " as they put to much variance on the meaning .

 

[concretecamper]

to be honest im inclined always to the teaching of the Holy Spirit over and above any men.i have what is plainly written before me and no agenda to force its alignment to.coupled with the wonderful promised Holy Spirit of whom the lord said, "he"will lead you into all truth.
thus the word written and the word living and speaking as the Holy spirit, must agree on any doctrine. only then ,in that unity does the lord give me assurance that a doctrine being taught is all truth.

i say this only to display where i am coming from and why i do not easily accept mens teachings. because in many,too many cases,the lord simply says to me,"That is not of me", thus the Word speaking as the Holy Spirit
discerns truth from other and cuts the two asunder.he began this in me by expelling many of my own religious stances.
we must receive and Obey the Holy Spirit ,as it is written,
"Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His..."

Thank you for your post. So, I would assume that you teach your children about the Jesus and how he loves us. Would it be wrong for your children to believe you since they are receiving a teaching from "men" rather than the spirit? If they rejected your teaching because they did not see things you way, who would be wrong?

 

[Alithis]

Thank you for your post. So, I would assume that you teach your children about the Jesus and how he loves us. Would it be wrong for your children to believe you since they are receiving a teaching from "men" rather than the spirit? If they rejected your teaching because they did not see things you way, who would be wrong?

depends , does both the written word And the spirit agree and bear witness .?
you see to walk "In" the spirit one must hear and obey the Holy spirit. For this reason i could never teach my children some certain doctrines off the rcc.because the Holy spirit convicts me that, in that instance ,it is not of the spirit of truth.
the same question applies to absolutely every one who claims belief in Jesus. do we then prove that belief by our obedience to him... or do we please men? because we cannot do both.if men (even of cloth)say one thing and God by his Spirit and word says another,whom do i follow? it must be God.
so what do i teach my children, -that god "Is" and they must seek him.