Dinosaurs?

[Love&Pain]

Do you believe that DINOSAURS were real at some point of time? If so, why would God destroy dinosaurs? I haven't seen the bible mention anything about dinosaurs. I had myself thinking, where did they get the bones? and how did they come up with the theory of how these different dinosaurs lived during that time?

 

[Chi_Cygni]

It's dinosaurs not 'dinosours' - that sounds like a hard candy.

Of course dinosaurs were real - do you think their fossils were carved out of rock?

 

[Captain Jackson]

It's dinosaurs not 'dinosours' - that sounds like a hard candy.

Of course dinosaurs were real - do you think their fossils were carved out of rock?

It's quite interesting that these massive creatures actually did exist, but if it weren't for a few bones dug out of the ground we would probably never have even known of this.

 

[Word of Peace]

Do you believe that DINOSAURS were real at some point of time?

Yes, definitely. There is even evidence that a few dinosaurs may still be living today.

If so, why would God destroy dinosaurs?

Many dinos probably died off because of a change in conditions after the Flood. Most of the remaining dinos were probably hunted to extinction due to human fear.

I haven't seen the bible mention anything about dinosaurs.

It mentions dinos in a couple of different places. Job 38-41 talks about two huge creatures that sound very much like dinosaurs. One is the Behemoth - a huge, terrifying beast living in marshes. This beast sounds much like the brachiosaurus. The other is the Leviathan, a sea-dwelling reptile, which sounds like a kronosaurus or pleiosaurus.

Behold, Behemoth! - http://www.christiancourier.com/feature/july2002.htm

What is Leviathan? - http://www.christiancourier.com/questions/leviathanQuestion.htm

Dinosaurs and the Bible - http://www.christiancourier.com/archives/dinosaurs.htm

Two disclaimers: 1st, I don't necessarily hold all the views dicussed in the above articles, and 2nd, these articles deal primarily with dinos in the Bible, rather than the fossil record, etc.

Also remember that if Bible didn't specifically mention an animal, that does not mean it doesn't exist. The Bible clearly does not list out all the animals that God created.

I had myself thinking, where did they get the bones?

Mostly from hundreds of fossils unearthed, which were buried during the Flood. But some non-fossilized dino bones have also been found, including a large number frozen in Alaska.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Bible passages about the Behemoth and Leviathan (NASB)

Job 39:15-24

15"Behold now, Behemoth, which I made as well as you;
He eats grass like an ox.
16"Behold now, his strength in his loins
And his power in the muscles of his belly.
17"He bends his tail like a cedar;
The sinews of his thighs are knit together.
18"His bones are tubes of bronze;
His limbs are like bars of iron.
19"He is the first of the ways of God;
Let his maker bring near his sword.
20"Surely the mountains bring him food,
And all the beasts of the field play there.
21"Under the lotus plants he lies down,
In the covert of the reeds and the marsh.
22"The lotus plants cover him with shade;
The willows of the brook surround him.
23"If a river rages, he is not alarmed;
He is confident, though the Jordan rushes to his mouth.
24"Can anyone capture him when he is on watch,
With barbs can anyone pierce his nose?

Job 40

1"Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook?
Or press down his tongue with a cord?
2"Can you put a rope in his nose
Or pierce his jaw with a hook?
3"Will he make many supplications to you,
Or will he speak to you soft words?
4"Will he make a covenant with you?
Will you take him for a servant forever?
5"Will you play with him as with a bird,
Or will you bind him for your maidens?
6"Will the traders bargain over him?
Will they divide him among the merchants?
7"Can you fill his skin with harpoons,
Or his head with fishing spears?
8"Lay your hand on him;
Remember the battle; you will not do it again!
9"Behold, your expectation is false;
Will you be laid low even at the sight of him?
10"No one is so fierce that he dares to arouse him;
Who then is he that can stand before Me?
11"Who has given to Me that I should repay him?
Whatever is under the whole heaven is Mine.
12"I will not keep silence concerning his limbs,
Or his mighty strength, or his orderly frame.
13"Who can strip off his outer armor?
Who can come within his double mail?
14"Who can open the doors of his face?
Around his teeth there is terror.
15"His strong scales are his pride,
Shut up as with a tight seal.
16"One is so near to another
That no air can come between them.
17"They are joined one to another;
They clasp each other and cannot be separated.
18"His sneezes flash forth light,
And his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
19"Out of his mouth go burning torches;
Sparks of fire leap forth.
20"Out of his nostrils smoke goes forth
As from a boiling pot and burning rushes.
21"His breath kindles coals,
And a flame goes forth from his mouth.
22"In his neck lodges strength,
And dismay leaps before him.
23"The folds of his flesh are joined together,
Firm on him and immovable.
24"His heart is as hard as a stone,
Even as hard as a lower millstone.
25"When he raises himself up, the mighty fear;
Because of the crashing they are bewildered.
26"The sword that reaches him cannot avail,
Nor the spear, the dart or the javelin.
27"He regards iron as straw,
Bronze as rotten wood.
28"The arrow cannot make him flee;
Slingstones are turned into stubble for him.
29"Clubs are regarded as stubble;
He laughs at the rattling of the javelin.
30"His underparts are like sharp potsherds;
He spreads out like a threshing sledge on the mire.
31"He makes the depths boil like a pot;
He makes the sea like a jar of ointment.
32"Behind him he makes a wake to shine;
One would think the deep to be gray-haired.
33" Nothing on earth is like him,
One made without fear.
34"He looks on everything that is high;
He is king over all the sons of pride."

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Dinosaurs definitely existed, unless God likes planting fake skeletons in the rocks.

However, leviathan and behemoth were not dinosaurs. They can't be, because there is a gap of 65 million years between the last dinosaurs and the first humans. Nor, therefore, did dinosaurs die out after the flood. There is no credible evidence whatsoever to support the idea of dinosaurs surviving into historical times.

 

[Arikay]

Not to mention that there is no credible evidence for the flood either. I would however, like to see these unfossilized dinosaur bones.
Many people seem to read too much into the Behemoth and leviathan verses. They are so vague, the behemoth for example could be a hippo.

An answer to the OP. They dug the bones up. A lot of the drawings you see about the dinosaurs world are artist renditions. but they can tell what dinosaurs lived together based on where they were dug up, what layer of earth they were in compared to other dinos and what they were dated too. We have found so many bones that we can put together a basic look of when each species lived.

 

[Word of Peace]

I would however, like to see these unfossilized dinosaur bones

OK, I'll give you what I have on this as soon as I can - tommorrow probably. I'm still sorting through a bunch of data on this. There's a lot more info available on the T-Rex bones found in Montana, as they were found at an earlier date than the Alaska bones, which are new and still undergoing evaluation. I now have a copy of the original study on the Montana bones available to me, and I'll give that to you ASAP along with other info.

I'm really interested in the debates on this forum - however, I'm in the process of moving on short notice, so my time is limited accordingly. Just FYI.

 

[notto]

Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.

The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.

He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

 

[Tomas K]

Yes, definitely. There is even evidence that a few dinosaurs may still be living today.

And they can be found at drdinos homepage

Many dinos probably died off because of a change in conditions after the Flood. Most of the remaining dinos were probably hunted to extinction due to human fear.

Apart from the 65 million years gap between humans and dinosaurs. They became extinct becuase of the changing climate and a large piece of stone falling down from the sky...

It mentions dinos in a couple of different places. Job 38-41 talks about two huge creatures that sound very much like dinosaurs. One is the Behemoth - a huge, terrifying beast living in marshes. This beast sounds much like the brachiosaurus. The other is the Leviathan, a sea-dwelling reptile, which sounds like a kronosaurus or pleiosaurus.

Apart from the Behemoth having a belly button. Egg laying animals doesn't have those...

Two disclaimers: 1st, I don't necessarily hold all the views dicussed in the above articles, and 2nd, these articles deal primarily with dinos in the Bible, rather than the fossil record, etc.

And the dinos in the bible are mammals not dinosaurs...

Mostly from hundreds of fossils unearthed, which were buried during the Flood. But some non-fossilized dino bones have also been found, including a large number frozen in Alaska.

And since when does ice help in fossilisation of bones?

 

[michabo]

However, leviathan and behemoth were not dinosaurs.

No, you're quite right, dinosaurs are dragons, not behemoths. I'm not sure I understand all of the references to unicorns in the bible, but I'm sure that there are unicorn fossils waiting for us to unearth.

 

[Haethurn]

Yes, definitely. There is even evidence that a few dinosaurs may still be living today.

Absolutely. Just read this article to find out all about the dinosaurs. http://objective.jesussave.us/dinoexpedition.html

 

[shenzhou]

No, you're quite right, dinosaurs are dragons, not behemoths.

This hypothesis has many problems, firstly dragons from different areas are described very differently and usually very vaguely so it is unclar what they actually looked. It is far more likely that people based dragon legends on fossils and not living creatures. For example the legend of the cylops arose from elephant skulls found on greek islands with a big hole in the middle (where the trunk went), clearly the people who made up the cycops legend had never seen the animal from which the skull came. Interestingly humans and elephants may have coexited on the greek island yet there are not records of the real animals, only the legends based on their misinterpreted remains. In china 'dragon bones' refers to practically any bone dug out of the ground include those of apes and ox shoulder blades which were inscribed with ancient chinese writing for the pupose of divination. These 'oracle bones' were in fact first discovered being sold as dragon bones, maybe dragons were cows!

In short it is very easy to make up stories about strange bones you find but that is no evidence that the creature has been seen.

Tertiary deposits are numerous throughout the globe and many fossils have been recovered from them, yet AFAIK not a single dinosaur bone, tooth of skeleton or any other trace has been recovered, this is highly anomolous if dinosaurs had survived into recent times.

 

[Drotar]

Haethurn, you're aware that the natives simply pointed to the swamp when asked where the dinosaur was, simply because that was where their legend placed it? That doesn't mean that that was where a dinosaur ACTUALLY was, but that that was where the legend placed it. I'm sure that the natives could have elaborated further, had the missionaries knew the languages better.

If you ask where Dracula lives in a superstitious village, they'll say Transylvania. This doesn't mean that Dracula lives actually lives there. If someone doesn't understand my language, but asks me where a giant sea monster lives, I'll point to the ocean. Etc, etc.

That culture is unfortunately uneducated and very superstitious. If you ask them to point where any of their legends live, they'll give you some sort of answer.

Even if dinosaurs WERE discovered today, the way the theory of evolution would be changed would be zip. All that means is that dinosaurs were more versatile than we thought. For example, crocodiles and sharks lived when dinosaurs did. The theory of evolution isn't disproven by their modern-day existence. Why would the discovery of a dinosaur, which probably won't happen, be any different?

 

[adam149]

However, leviathan and behemoth were not dinosaurs.

They certainly weren't a hippo or an elephant.

The word translated "behemoth" is the hebrew b and hemowth and is "in form a plural, but really a singular of Egyptian derivation" and that which it refers to is "1. perhaps an extinct dinosaur, 1a. a Diplodocus or Brachiosaurus, exact meaning unknown." However, "some translate as elephant or hippopotamus but from the description in Job 40:15-24 this is patently absurd." (Online Bible)

Look at the verses again. Verse 17 tells us that "he hangs his tail like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are knit together." Now go back up this page and look again that those lovely pictures of hippos and their tails. Then, go to google.com and under images, look up "cedar trees." Now compare the two. If you are still convinced that it could possibly be anything but a dinosaur you are officially lost to the voice of reason.

But just in case that didn't quite convince, let's look at another verse. Verse 19, "He is the first of the ways of God; his Maker brings near his sword."

The word translated as "first" is the hebrew re'shiyth and means "first, beginning, best, chief." So basically, this verse tells us that this animal is huge, the mightiest of God's creation. Ask yourself. Are dinosaurs or are elephants bigger?

(I'll give a hint, the wrong answer is elephant!)

They can't be, because there is a gap of 65 million years between the last dinosaurs and the first humans.

That's your best argument? They can't be because we "know" they lived millions of years ago? Think outside the box.

Nor, therefore, did dinosaurs die out after the flood. There is no credible evidence whatsoever to support the idea of dinosaurs surviving into historical times.

Except for thousands of eyewitness accounts, mention in the bible, mention in historical documents, mention all through history, actual paintings of such in caves, and various other kinds of evidence. Dragons, anyone? You know, the great, terrible lizards of legend.

As for this:

This hypothesis has many problems, firstly dragons from different areas are described very differently and usually very vaguely so it is unclar what they actually looked.

Yes, well, as for the different descriptions, would you say there is a lot of difference between a T-Rex and an Iguanadon or not much? If the dragons were all described the same in every legend and account, that wound indicate that people were making it up.

It is far more likely that people based dragon legends on fossils and not living creatures.

Ah, so Alexander the Great encountered fossils living in India, did he?

Tertiary deposits are numerous throughout the globe and many fossils have been recovered from them, yet AFAIK not a single dinosaur bone, tooth of skeleton or any other trace has been recovered, this is highly anomolous if dinosaurs had survived into recent times.

First of all, the Tertiary Period is a large portion of the Cenozoic Era. The Tertiary Period is a total of 62 million years in length and incorporates the Paleocene, Eocene, Oliogocene, Miocene, and Pliocene epochs and ends at the 2 million years ago mark. Humans would only have appeared (in their most primitive state) for only the last one million years of the Tertiary Period. A sixty-two million year variable is NOT recent times, by any stretch of the imagination. Nor is a million. Civillization and historical documentation didn't start until 5 thousand years ago, and it is after this that the recordings and mention of dragons occur.

Second of all, this is only a problem for the evolutionist who believes in the geologic column and uniformitarianism. The Flood easily explains why the geology is so screwed up all over the place, and why there are fossil graveyards, etc..

 

[Drotar]

I don't have the time to respond to your post entirely since I have six minutes left on this computer.

But from what I have read, Adam, it says that its tail SWINGS like a cedar- not that it is the length and diameter of one.

 

[Arikay]

1) From what I understand, Tail is slang, and does not actually mean a tail.

2) Maybe you can start a new thread and show us exactly how geology is screwed up, and then show us how the flood gives us the geology we have today, including the geological column.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Except for thousands of eyewitness accounts

Eyewitness accounts without evidence don't mean much. Even the photographs of things like Nessie are highly speculative (especially given the propensity for hoaxes).

mention in the bible

Those passages are subject to interpretation. For example, "He moveth his tail like a cedar" does not necessarily mean his tail is like the trunk of a cedar. It could refer to the movement of cedar branches or the tip of the tree, for example (ever seen a cedar move in the wind?).

(There's also another idea that the part about the "tail" refers to an entirely different part of the creature's anatomy).

mention in historical documents, mention all through history

Again, is there physical evidence to support these assertions?

actual paintings of such in caves, and various other kinds of evidence.

And yet, with all of this "evidence" there is not a single example of a recently deceased or even recently fossilized specimin of dinosaur to be found. Why no dinosaur fossils in Pliocene or Paleolithic sediment layers? Or, in the geologic layers containing dinosaurs, why no modern mammals?

 

[Marilyn]

dinosaurs were real... Just because jim didn't write it in his book!!!

 

[Haethurn]

Dinosaurs still walk on the land and swim in the seas!

 

[michabo]

They can't be because we "know" they lived millions of years ago? Think outside the box.

What box would that be? Rational thought? Putting quotes around "know" doesn't invalidate the evidence you know, but nice try.