• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Dinosaurs would still be here.

River Jordan

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2024
758
334
37
Pacific NW
✟29,008.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
have you looked at or read any of the science?
Yes, very much so.

And no, they do not all agree..
Who are you talking about?

the sediment layed down during the flood would not be hard rock. Hard rock can not be bent, yet we see at the grand canyon and many other places where it appears the rock layers have been bent without breaking.

in order for this to happen, it would need to still be soft..
No, that's not really correct. But before I spend time on this, are you interested in going over the science?
 
Upvote 0

dlamberth

Senior Contributor
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2003
20,169
3,180
Oregon
✟942,519.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Politics
US-Others
again, this is not true. many scientists look to the geological record. and see that the flood caused the things we see today. even the grand canyon was caused by the results of the flood.
Not at all true. There is no evidence of a global flood.
 
Upvote 0

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2018
1,061
322
60
Columbus, Ohio
✟52,129.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2018
1,061
322
60
Columbus, Ohio
✟52,129.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Not at all true. There is no evidence of a global flood.
we are looking at science in different ways.

I think the term, you will only see what you want to see may apply
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,183
52,653
Guam
✟5,149,492.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,183
52,653
Guam
✟5,149,492.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Scientists moved on from the global flood about 200 years ago.

No one wanted to go out and look again with updated and more sophisticated instruments?

Or, as I suspect, did they stamp DID NOT HAPPEN on it and forgot about it?
 
Upvote 0

River Jordan

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2024
758
334
37
Pacific NW
✟29,008.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
really? I have also. it changed my view.

creation scientists.

I went over the science. But I am always open. thats how i changed my view before
So let's take a look at the specific strata in the canyon.

Grand-Canyon-Layers.jpg


Are you familiar with each of those and what they're made of?
 
Upvote 0

BCP1928

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2024
8,921
4,522
82
Goldsboro NC
✟266,449.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
have you looked at or read any of the science?
Yes. Considering the participants of this forum as a group, we have studied creationist material to some depth, beginning with The Genesis Flood by Whitcomb and Morris, which started the modern YEC movement, and followed the work of the major creationist ministries, such as the Institute of Creation Research, Answers in Genesis and Creation.com. We a familiar with the basic creationist apologetics (including the "retrofit river" argument, a version of which you are presenting here) and why the are considered spurious. As a group we bring to the discussion professional qualifications and experience in at least math, physics, geology and biology. From the religious standpoint we are a mix of atheists, agnostics, mainline Protestants and Traditional Christians.
 
Upvote 0

River Jordan

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2024
758
334
37
Pacific NW
✟29,008.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
No one wanted to go out and look again with updated and more sophisticated instruments?

Or, as I suspect, did they stamp DID NOT HAPPEN on it and forgot about it?
Creationist organizations pull in millions of dollars per year. Why haven't any of them gone out and done what you suggest? Have you contacted them and submitted a proposal?
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,183
52,653
Guam
✟5,149,492.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
As a group we bring to the discussion professional qualifications and experience in at least math, physics, geology and biology.

Just out of curiosity, are you a scientist?

If so, what's your area of expertise?
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,183
52,653
Guam
✟5,149,492.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
39,679
29,284
Pacific Northwest
✟818,552.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

River Jordan

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2024
758
334
37
Pacific NW
✟29,008.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
For the same reason their atheist cohorts counterparts won't?
Which is?

My proposal, if I contacted them, is to read the Bible.

Specifically Genesis 6-9.
So "go out and look again with updated and more sophisticated instruments" means "read the Bible"? Weird.
 
Upvote 0

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2018
1,061
322
60
Columbus, Ohio
✟52,129.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So let's take a look at the specific strata in the canyon.

Grand-Canyon-Layers.jpg


Are you familiar with each of those and what they're made of?
taken from Biologos webpage.. should i read that to see what it says?

But yes. All of those are sedimentary layers.. take a look for an example of the tapeats sandstone, and bright angel. look how sharp that line is.. Now when I read science in school. I was told there were thousands maybe millions of years between these layers. but again, No evidence of eriosion. No evidence of the plant life or animals life or anything happening in between these two lays. it appears as we look at it that one was layed down quickly over the other one.. And we can trace these layers in many cases across continents.
 
Upvote 0

BCP1928

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2024
8,921
4,522
82
Goldsboro NC
✟266,449.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Just out of curiosity, are you a scientist?

If so, what's your area of expertise?
Not me, and I never claimed to be. My area of a expertise as it pertains to this discussion is mathematics, In any case, my interest in the subject of creationism is theological rather than scientific.
 
Upvote 0

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2018
1,061
322
60
Columbus, Ohio
✟52,129.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim.
Your making a claim yourself
Are you familiar with Eratosthenes of Cyrene?

-CryptoLutheran
what I am familiar with is learning in history class that people of the ancient world were afraid to sail to far from their home. because the general thinking was that the earth was flat. and they were afraid they would fall off the end of the earth.

I did not say everyone believed it, i am sure there were some who did not. The word of God speaks of the globe of the earth..

My point was science changes.. what is science today may not be science tomorrow.. so it would be foolish to put all of our eggs in one basket so to speak.

Again, I used to believe in an old earth. I no longer do. based on what i saw..
 
Upvote 0

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2018
1,061
322
60
Columbus, Ohio
✟52,129.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Creationist organizations pull in millions of dollars per year. Why haven't any of them gone out and done what you suggest? Have you contacted them and submitted a proposal?
many of them have.. why do you think those of us who have seen it have changed our views.

they did not just come up0 with their ideas. and we did nto just blindly agree with them and change our views.
 
Upvote 0

dlamberth

Senior Contributor
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2003
20,169
3,180
Oregon
✟942,519.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Politics
US-Others
the sediment layed down during the flood would not be hard rock. Hard rock can not be bent, yet we see at the grand canyon and many other places where it appears the rock layers have been bent without breaking.

in order for this to happen, it would need to still be soft..

once again, I used to be an Old Earth creationist. it was the things I have seen that changed my view.
I"d like to know how you account for the Yellowstone Hot Spot that was off the Oregon coast 50 million years ago and shows up in Southern Oregon 17 million years ago as the North American Plate moved over it. And where today we can physically see its burn path to it's present location. Where do you see any sign of a Global Flood in that burn path, or signs of a young Earth? Those signs simply do not exist.

And then we have the Columbia River Basalts which is sourced from the Yellowstone Hot Spot 17 million years ago poured out basalt for several million years. Where are the signs of a Global Flood in those over 300 different layers of basalt? And how do we get a young earth capable of that many basalt flows in a short 6000 year span?

And then we have the Glacial Ice Age. Where are the signs of a Global Flood there? And how does the Ice Age fit into a 6000 year old earth?

St Helens that you brought up has a 275,000 year history. How do we get a young earth from that? And around and on the mountain, where are the sign's of a Global Flood? Hint: There are no such signs.

And I'm just hitting a few highlights here in the Pacific North West. We have on exhibit the entire Earth that shows no sign of being a young Earth as well as no signs of a Global Flood.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,183
52,653
Guam
✟5,149,492.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Which is?

I answered that wrong.

Why would they go out and look, when they're already convinced the Flood was global?

So "go out and look again with updated and more sophisticated instruments" means "read the Bible"? Weird.

If they, or anyone, can't sleep at night without having tangible proof of the Flood (or any other miracle in the Bible), then that's a good question.

If reading GOD DID IT in the Bible isn't good enough, then by all means, knock yourself out.

Get back out there with more sophisticated equipment than you had 200 years ago and look again.

And when -- as usual -- you find nothing, then man-up and admit God cleaned it up.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,183
52,653
Guam
✟5,149,492.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Not me, and I never claimed to be. My area of a expertise as it pertains to this discussion is mathematics, In any case, my interest in the subject of creationism is theological rather than scientific.

Okay, thanks.
 
Upvote 0