Dinosaurs & The Missing Link

[LilAngelHeart]

Hello all

All heavenly beings live outside time, even the fallen angels do because Eccles. 3 says to everything there is a season and a time to every purpose under Heaven. The Space Time Continuum only exists for earth and on earth.

I believe that the fallen angels came to earth and perverted Gods creation by mixing animals and lizards and everything and creating the dinosaurs as well as weird creations from mixings of animal dna and human DNA to make the cavemen which are very similar to Big Foot. Some of the creatures made by lucifer existed in the prehistoric world as well as afterwards. That's why God told Noah before the flood to only take the animals that come to him, the ones God send to him. God destroyed the seed of the fallen angels who mated with women as well as the creations in the animals kingdom made by the fallen angels which is why there are so many fossils of wierd extince creatures.

God Doesn't Make Monsters

Fallen angels most likely made the dinasuars because they have the signature of the fallen angels. When the fallen angels mix with humans you get giants, or Bigfoot, or mix with animals like monkeys you get bigfoot, (Not sure what Bigfoot is exactly)mix with lizards and reptiles, you get dinosaurs which were giant and monsters. The dinosaurs were aggressive and violent hunters and meat eaters, God didnt create them. God doesn't make monsters. The cave men were not human and were animalistic. You can see within creation the battle between good & evil, between God & lucifer, the Bible says Lucifer tried to take God's place and throne and exhalt himself above God. You can see where lucifer tried to take over this planet and insert his made up things in here with the dinasaurs and prehistoric creatures and now, as well as with the giants in the Bible. Once lucifer was allowed into the planet by mankind, lucifer was given authority in the planet and being outside time, lucifer was then able to travel into any time period and insert whatever he wanted. I believe lucifer created the prehistoric animals and manlike creatures by mixing DNA of mankind and animals, then went in time to right after God made the heaven and earth and inserted his own creatures in there, trying to wipe out mankind and all that God had made. Notice how lucifer couldn't create from scratch but needed to use the dna of animals and man that God had already created. Lucifer was the highest created angel under God, but God is still the one in control which is why He destroyed the prehistoric creatures, and also the mixed seed with the flood of Noah, and lucifer was given a time limit.

I know the Bible says God made everything and without Him was not anything made that was made, but that verse refers to the dna or materials that everything on earth is made from For example, God didnt create crack cocain and other harmful drugs, or poison, the materials they are made of are Gods creation, but those things are perversions of Gods creation. Dinosaurs and half man creatures are a perversion of Gods creation. That's why prehistoric manlike creatures resemble man but are not quite human, lucifer used the DNA of man and the animal kingdom which God had created. If mankind can think of a possible way to create dinasuars like in Jurassic Park, and we are mere humans, not angels like the fallen angels, how much more would lucifer be able to create strange mixtures from animal, human and reptile dna?

Lucifer has limited power but God is all powerful and still in control. Lucifer isn't called evil for nothing, mankind has no idea the havek and chaos lucifer has created on this earth that's why he deserved nothing less than Hell forever.

People dont realize that the enemy is real and is on this earth in flesh, and manifests itself more and more through alien abductions and big foot and fossils of cave men and dinosaurs and mythological gods and giants of the Bible and everything. The Bible says he is coming again in the end times, people need to get ready. You can see the spirit realm all in physics. God is real. Notice how devil worshippers use the sun and stars and moon and stuff as their icons, and astrology and stuff studies and uses the stars and outerspace to tell the future or whatever and how aliens come from outerspace, and the Bible says the enemys domain is in the solar system around our planet. Right out there where worm holes and black holes and the space time continium is. The Bible says to everthing theres a time and season under Heaven, and a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years are as a day to God. Time doesnt exist for Heavenly angles,God, or lucifer who was was from Heaven, so the fallen angels are outside time as well which means they can go in and out of our time lines at given moments. The missing link is the enemy. Thats the missing link between humans and animals of today and those creatures of the past and BigFoot also, Big Foot can be from either the past or future. If evolution was real, Big foot creatures should not be here right? Even science cannot explain their presence.

That could be one of the reasons why God cursed the snake to take away its legs, that snake could have been the enemy mixed with reptile dna from the future which is why it could talk. (Don't know for sure though) Which also proves the enemy had already been in the earth in the tech age before going back in time to Adam & Eve in the beginning. God planted all the trees in the garden but lucifer perverted one with the genetic alteration of it from future technology of our times. (Humans can now genetically alter fruits and veggies with human and animal DNA to make them more durable) Thats why God told them not to eat of that tree. The tree of knowledge or the tree of technology. The antichrists arrival in our time thats coming up is actually the first time the enemy comes to earth to get in at the beginning of the fall, we are just now catching up with it in our timeline. Thats why this event of the antichrists arrival is so important and was foretold for so long like the coming of Jesus was in ancient times. The enemy first had to arrive in the tech age because thats when man was capable of making/giving him a body to be born in the earth, the Bible says thats the only way to have authority here. Thats why Jesus was born through Mary.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

Lions, tigers and bears are violent aggressive hunters. DO you mean to tell me that God did not create them???????????

 

[LilAngelHeart]

Lions, tigers and bears are violent aggressive hunters. DO you mean to tell me that God did not create them???????????

Yes God created them, but they are not giant like the dinosaurs and even their nature has been perverted.

 

[notto]

The majority of dinosaurs were not 'giants'. They ranged in size from small to large just like mammals. Many of them were the size of birds we see today from small to large like ostrichs and emus.

They are simply another type of animal, no different than mammals, reptiles, or birds of today.

I don't think your argument is supported by scripture or science.

 

[gluadys]

Not only were many dinosaurs small to medium size, not all of them were "aggressive and violent hunters and meat eaters" either. Many were peaceful vegetarians.

The creationist idea that most new species arise from "mixing" dna or interbreeding established species is also faulty. While it occasionally happens that new species (especially plant species) arise in this way, most new species are a result of the opposite process---separating a single gene pool into two or more different gene pools.

 

[lucaspa]

I believe that the fallen angels came to earth and perverted Gods creation by mixing animals and lizards and everything and creating the dinosaurs as well as weird creations from mixings of animal dna and human DNA to make the cavemen which are very similar to Big Foot.

That belief is against the Bible and Christianity. The theological message of Genesis 1-3 is very clear. God and only God created and nothing else messed with creation. Wherever you got this you didn't get it either from God's Word or God's Creation. Since God contradicts you, I'd think about giving this up.

Fallen angels most likely made the dinasuars because they have the signature of the fallen angels.[/quotes]
Birds are dinosaurs. So where is the "signature of the fallen angels" in them?

When the fallen angels mix with humans you get giants, or Bigfoot,

That's from Genesis 5, but the fossil record is that all previous hominid species in our line were either our size or smaller. For instance, A. afarensis (linked to us by transitional individuals) was only 3 and a half feet tall. So your initial premise is refuted by God's Creation.

The dinosaurs were aggressive and violent hunters and meat eaters,

Maiasaura was aggressive and a meat eater? Good grief, you need to learn a bit about dinosaurs.

God didnt create them. God doesn't make monsters.

The great white shark is an aggressive meat eater and many consider it a monster. See the movie Jaws? Did God create sharks? The Bible says God created all land creatures. Polar bears hunt humans. At the time of the Bible, lions and tigers still lived in Palestine and they hunted people. Did God create them?

BTW, if God is so powerful, why did He allow the fallen angels to mess with His Creation? Another refutation of your theory is that it makes God impotent, not powerful. Poor God. So mighty that He creates the earth and life on it, but then those nasty fallen angels (who are not as powerful as God) mess it all up! Poor God. Powerless to stop them! All He can do is wipe out all of humanity with a Flood because He couldn't just zap the fallen angels and kill them! Pretty incompetent and powerless god you have there, LilAngelHeart. I'm glad your god isn't the real God.

the Bible says Lucifer tried to take God's place and throne and exhalt himself above God.

Actually the Bible doesn't say this. It's Milton who said that.

I know the Bible says God made everything and without Him was not anything made that was made, but that verse refers to the dna or materials that everything on earth is made from

Well, well, she knows the Bible refutes her! How do you know this passage meant only DNA. The passage says "all things". Now, why would the passage say that if it didn't mean it?

Dinosaurs and half man creatures are a perversion of Gods creation.

Why? Just because they are not mentioned in the Bible and they make problems for your literal interpretation? Ever consider that it's your interpretation that is flawed?

Lucifer has limited power but God is all powerful and still in control.

But not all powerful enough to stop Lucifer from messing with creation and creating living things himself! Sorry, but within one sentence you are inconsistent. It's typical of your whole theory.

Time doesnt exist for Heavenly angles,God, or lucifer who was was from Heaven, so the fallen angels are outside time as well which means they can go in and out of our time lines at given moments.

Sorry, but your reasoning about "a thousand years being as a day to God" doesn't imply this. Time does have meaning, because the future is not determined, so God can't go back and forth to the future. Because there is no future yet. It has to happen, and not even God can know exactly how it will be. God made the universe such that He would be unable to know that. So your fantasy of time-traveling Lucifer again is contradicted by God.

BigFoot also, Big Foot can be from either the past or future. If evolution was real, Big foot creatures should not be here right? Even science cannot explain their presence.

That's enough! Bigfoot is NOT here. Didn't you catch the confession of the people who made the Bigfoot hoax! BIGFOOT WAS A HOAX! THE PEOPLE HAVE CONFESSED AND TOLD HOW THEY MADE THE HOAX!

Good God! A whole anti-God theology made up based on a hoax.

 

[lucaspa]

Here: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37507

LilAngelheart, you have based your whole theory on Bigfoot. How did you miss that Bigfoot was hoax. Now, please give up your heresy and return to Christianity!

 

[Bushido216]

Good to see that lucaspa is back.

Though going a little lighter on the "heresy" line might be good.

 

[lucaspa]

Good to see that lucaspa is back.

Though going a little lighter on the "heresy" line might be good.

I would if the heresy weren't so blatant and she wasn't embracing it so wholeheartedly and enthusiastically. It is the Marcionite heresy all over again. God is not the real Creator. Instead, creation is done by an evil god and is bad. The only difference between LilAngelheart and full blown Marcionism is that LilAngelHeart has only some of creation made by evil beings. Big deal. Not enough difference to save her.

I'm hoping to shock her out of her position before she digs herself a theological hole she can't crawl out of. I want her to realize just how much salvation danger she is in. And it's BAD!

 

[LilAngelHeart]

QUOTE=lucaspa--That belief is against the Bible and Christianity. The theological message of Genesis 1-3 is very clear. God and only God created and nothing else messed with creation. Wherever you got this you didn't get it either from God's Word or God's Creation. Since God contradicts you, I'd think about giving this up.

Yes God is the original creater of life on this planet, but there are things on this planet that was not created by God. For instance, did God create sickness, did God create weapons of mass distuction? Did God create drugs, crack cocain, did God create cigarettes? No man made those things and those things are a perversion of God's creation, right? I mean do you think God created those things and they are not a perversion of His creation? Man made pit bull breed dogs, man made the cloned sheep, man makes genetically altered chickens and cows and fruits and veteables, those are not creations of God, they are things put together using God's creation. Those are just things man can and have done. So you can't say that everything on this earth right now was made by God in the state that it's in. Let me ask you where you think illness and disease comes from? God or satan? If illness comes from satan, then you have just admitted that satan can create things using and perverting what God has created. Surely you don't think illness and deformity and disease comes from God do you? So where does it come from? Those are examples of satan perverting God's creation.

Fallen angels most likely made the dinasuars because they have the signature of the fallen angels.[/quotes]
Birds are dinosaurs. So where is the "signature of the fallen angels" in them?

That's from Genesis 5, but the fossil record is that all previous hominid species in our line were either our size or smaller. For instance, A. afarensis (linked to us by transitional individuals) was only 3 and a half feet tall. So your initial premise is refuted by God's Creation.

God made Adam & Eve, He did not make any other humans. He made mankind wheh He created Adam & Eve, God did not make human like creatures.


Maiasaura was aggressive and a meat eater? Good grief, you need to learn a bit about dinosaurs.

You are not following me, do you think there are any agressive violent creatures in Heaven that kill or hunt mankind and Angels? God gave Adam & Eve dominion over everything on earth when He made them and the animals.



The great white shark is an aggressive meat eater and many consider it a monster. See the movie Jaws? Did God create sharks? The Bible says God created all land creatures. Polar bears hunt humans. At the time of the Bible, lions and tigers still lived in Palestine and they hunted people. Did God create them?

You are getting confused between things God created and things that have been perverted. Do you really believe that God created the animals to hunt and kill people when He originally created the Garden of Eden? I know how animals were in biblical days, but that doesn't mean God created them to be that way originally. Like I said do you really think animals hunt and kill humans and Angels in Heaven? The Bible says that God wants His will to be done in earth as it is in Heaven.



BTW, if God is so powerful, why did He allow the fallen angels to mess with His Creation? Another refutation of your theory is that it makes God impotent, not powerful.

What makes you think that? You don't think the same thing about Jesus allowing the men, mere humans to beat Him nearly to death and hang Him on the cross do? Why do you have such little faith that you mistake God allowing something to happen as meaning God is powerless? That sounds just like the thief hanging next to Jesus telling Him if you are truely God why don't you get off that cross. What you say sounds like heresy to me!




Poor God. So mighty that He creates the earth and life on it, but then those nasty fallen angels (who are not as powerful as God) mess it all up! Poor God. Powerless to stop them!

This is what your words sound like: "Poor God. So mighty that He creates the earth and life on it, but then those nasty humanss (who are not as powerful as God) come and beat him to death nearly and crucify Him on the cross! Poor God. Powerless to stop them!


All He can do is wipe out all of humanity with a Flood because He couldn't just zap the fallen angels and kill them! Pretty incompetent and powerless god you have there, LilAngelHeart. I'm glad your god isn't the real God.

Shaking my head, then what must you think about Jesus dying on the cross then for our sins? Does that also make you feel like He's incompetent and powerless? The same God who let His only begotten Son be crusicfied for us is that same God you claim is incompetent for allowing His creation and things He loves to be hurt by the devil. Hmmmmm....



Actually the Bible doesn't say this. It's Milton who said that.

Well, well, she knows the Bible refutes her! How do you know this passage meant only DNA. The passage says "all things". Now, why would the passage say that if it didn't mean it?

Okay so if all things are made by God then you are saying illness, deformity, drugs, weapons of mass destruction, crack cocain, cigarrettes, and every other harmful thing that's on the earth was made by God. If all means all then those things are included.



Why? Just because they are not mentioned in the Bible and they make problems for your literal interpretation? Ever consider that it's your interpretation that is flawed?

Or maybe your interpretation if you think that God is powerless because He let Jesus die for our sins and you think God created illnesses, deformity, weapons, and everything. I bet you think God created abortion since it exists huh?



But not all powerful enough to stop Lucifer from messing with creation and creating living things himself! Sorry, but within one sentence you are inconsistent. It's typical of your whole theory.

Ooooh so you disagree then that the fallen angels came to earth and slept with human women and created the giants? You are saying that you believe God created illness, disease, weapons, drugs and every other harmful thing that exists, just because it exists and all means all to you?



Sorry, but your reasoning about "a thousand years being as a day to God" doesn't imply this. Time does have meaning, because the future is not determined, so God can't go back and forth to the future. Because there is no future yet. It has to happen, and not even God can know exactly how it will be. God made the universe such that He would be unable to know that. So your fantasy of time-traveling Lucifer again is contradicted by God.

So you think God is limited by time then and doesn't know the future? So how could the book of Revelations have been written? It's about the future. Are you saying you don't believe the book of Revelations was written by God?



That's enough! Bigfoot is NOT here. Didn't you catch the confession of the people who made the Bigfoot hoax! BIGFOOT WAS A HOAX! THE PEOPLE HAVE CONFESSED AND TOLD HOW THEY MADE THE HOAX!

Good God! A whole anti-God theology made up based on a hoax.

Ummmm excuse me? My whole reasoning is NOT based on the existence of Big foot and also, didn't YOU catch the news about the hair samples they found?!

British scientists made a startling announcement. After examining the DNA in a strand of hair thought to come from a Yeti - the Asian cousin to America's Bigfoot - scientists were unable to identify it as coming from any known animal

This astonishing discovery is the most recent peak of what has become a growing mountain of evidence that we share this planet with an as-yet undiscovered species - or perhaps several species - of bipedal primates. And whether they are a kind of ape or are more closely related to humans - or something in-between - is unknown. But this new scientific evidence combined with new detailed photos and an increasing number of compelling sightings holds the promise that we may be very close to solving the mystery.

Some of the hair was taken back to the UK for DNA testing. Bryan Sykes, Professor of Human Genetics at the Oxford Institute of Molecular Medicine and one of the world's leading experts on DNA analysis examined the hair. "We found some DNA in it," he said, "but we don't know what it is. It's not a human, not a bear not anything else we have so far been able to identify. It's a mystery and I never thought this would end in a mystery. We have never encountered DNA that we couldn't recognize before."

But the DNA test has proved that there is an unknown creature out there. What kind of creature that hair belongs to is unknown, but when one considers it along with the footprints and the eyewitness sightings, the case for a previously unknown ape or hominid is strengthened. The DNA is likely to inspire new expeditions to find the Yeti.

And anyway, Big foot was not created or only seen by those who claimed they hoaxed it, people have been spotting big foot since as early as 1811! Duh! Looks like you're the one who needs to do more reading up on things.

British anthropologist Dr John Napier examined casts and photographs of Cripple Foot's tracks and identified the deformity as talipes-equino-vanus or club-foot. This is usually a congenital disorder but may be caused by a severe injury or damage to the nerves controlling the muscles of the foot. Left untreated, the congenital condition usually results in the impression of the heel being absent or poorly defined as only the forepart of the foot and toes touch the ground when standing normally. As the imprints of the heels were well defined, Napier concluded that the deformity was probably due to an injury received in early childhood. He considered the likelihood of a hoaxer having the knowledge and subtlety to fake such a footprint, so improbable that he was prepared to discount it.

Grover Krantz, an anthropologist at Washington State University, reconstructed the skeletal structure of the foot from casts of the Bossburg prints. He discovered the ankle was positioned further forwards than in a human foot and used his knowledge of physical anthropology and the reported weight and height of Sasquatches to calculate exactly how far forward the ankle was set. Further examination of the casts confirmed that the position of the ankle exactly matched his theoretical calculations, causing him to observe:

"In my judgement, no hoaxer could have figured out just how far forward to shift the ankle for a biped of the indicated size, then have left footprints with some subtle distortions that just might lead an anatomist to the reconstruction I have made ... I figured the whole thing out after studying the footprints; any hoaxer had to plan it all out from nothing."

I could go on and on but you are the one who needs to catch up on your reading.

 

[missiondocsda]

Good work LilangelheartGod bless.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

I would if the heresy weren't so blatant and she wasn't embracing it so wholeheartedly and enthusiastically. It is the Marcionite heresy all over again. God is not the real Creator. Instead, creation is done by an evil god and is bad. The only difference between LilAngelheart and full blown Marcionism is that LilAngelHeart has only some of creation made by evil beings. Big deal. Not enough difference to save her.

I'm hoping to shock her out of her position before she digs herself a theological hole she can't crawl out of. I want her to realize just how much salvation danger she is in. And it's BAD!

I never said God is not the real creater! I'm simply stating that God's creation can be perverted. Do you not agree with that? Think about what you are saying if you say God's creation can't be perverted. I think you're the one in spiritual danger if you think God created crack cocain and drugs and illness and that God is powerless because He let His only begotten Son to be tortured and crucified by His own creation. You better watch yourself thinking that way before it leads you into trouble.

What do you tell people whose loved ones are hooked on crack? Oh it's okay they are just in God's will because God created crack anyway so He must have wanted some people to become drug addicts. LOL!

 

[LilAngelHeart]

Good work LilangelheartGod bless.

LOL! Thanks!

 

[LilAngelHeart]

The majority of dinosaurs were not 'giants'. They ranged in size from small to large just like mammals. Many of them were the size of birds we see today from small to large like ostrichs and emus.

They are simply another type of animal, no different than mammals, reptiles, or birds of today.

I don't think your argument is supported by scripture or science.

Okay, how do you account for the death and violence that some had and the death of the manlike creatures if sin had not entered into the planet yet?

We know that the dinosaurs were real because we have the fossils and things to prove it. We know that when God created the earth, it was perfect and there was no sin death or destruction. If sin did not enter the planet until Adam & Eve sinned, and death and destruction is a result of sin, how is it that the dinosaurs were able to kill human-like creatures and others, dinasuars died, man-like creatures died, and killed each other, there was bloodshed, violence, death and destruction and finally God destroying those creatures. How could those things have existed before sin had even entered the planet? Before God had even made Adam & Eve and before Adam & Eve had sinned? There was no death until after the fall of Adam. Yet those prehistoric creatures and man-like things had the results of sin in the planet, before Adam & Eve had fallen? Think about it. Then God destroyed them suddenly while they were still chewing food. Why such destruction, and sudden death if sin had not entered the planet yet? They should have been a utopian society if God had created and no sin had entered the planet yet.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Sounds to me like even the creatures of the sea didn't escape being affected by lucifer and the sin nature. Who was it that said the sharks and whales were made to be violent killers by God?

 

[notto]

The fossil record shows us that dinosaurs, mammals, and all sorts of creatures have died. Dinosaurs are no different than any of the thousands of other types of animals we have found in the fossil record. Dinosaurs were not the only ones doing the killing and they were also killed.

If what you say is correct then all animals, including mammals and birds, are the result of sin because their are killers in all the groups.

Again, dinosaurs are no different than any other type of animals and range in size, features, and aggressiveness just like mammals, birds, and fish.

I don't see any biblical references identifying dinosaurs or apes as being any different than birds, mammals or fishes.

 

[lucaspa]

QUOTE=lucaspa--That belief is against the Bible and Christianity. The theological message of Genesis 1-3 is very clear. God and only God created and nothing else messed with creation. Wherever you got this you didn't get it either from God's Word or God's Creation. Since God contradicts you, I'd think about giving this up.

Yes God is the original creater of life on this planet, but there are things on this planet that was not created by God. For instance, did God create sickness, did God create weapons of mass distuction? Did God create drugs, crack cocain, did God create cigarettes? No man made those things and those things are a perversion of God's creation, right?

Man didn't create sickness. The rest are artifacts made by man. But you aren't talking about manufactured artifacts. You are talking about plants and animals, remember?

Genesis 2:19 "So our of the ground God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air" See the word "every"? So where is the room for something else to make dinosaurs? Aren't dinosaurs beasts?

Man made pit bull breed dogs, man made the cloned sheep, man makes genetically altered chickens and cows and fruits and veteables, those are not creations of God, they are things put together using God's creation. Those are just things man can and have done.

But a cloned sheep is still a sheep, isn't it? And creationists argue that pit bulls are still dogs. No new "kind". Are you saying that artificial selection will make new "kinds"? If so, you are acknowledging that natural selection can make new kinds! Thank you for confirming evolution!

But within the original creation, there are no beings that made the plants and animals on the planet.

Let me ask you where you think illness and disease comes from? God or satan? Surely you don't think illness and deformity and disease comes from God do you? So where does it come from?

Neither. Most illness comes from other lifeforms -- bacteria, viruses, and some larger organisms -- such as tapeworms. Cancer comes from altered genes in the cells. Now, God did create the organisms that cause disease, so yes, disease is indirectly created by God. It is a result of God creating a complete universe where our lives have meaning.

Fallen angels most likely made the dinasuars because they have the signature of the fallen angels.[/quotes]
Birds are dinosaurs. So where is the "signature of the fallen angels" in them?

That's from Genesis 5, but the fossil record is that all previous hominid species in our line were either our size or smaller. For instance, A. afarensis (linked to us by transitional individuals) was only 3 and a half feet tall. So your initial premise is refuted by God's Creation.

God made Adam & Eve, He did not make any other humans. He made mankind wheh He created Adam & Eve, God did not make human like creatures.

In Genesis 1 it says He made men and women, both plural in Hebrew, at the same time. So He did make more humans in that account than simply Adam and Eve.

You are not following me, do you think there are any agressive violent creatures in Heaven that kill or hunt mankind and Angels? God gave Adam & Eve dominion over everything on earth when He made them and the animals.

Actually, that dominion is in Genesis 1 and doesn't refer to Adam and Eve. What does heaven have to do with what happens on earth? God gave people intelligence which led to technology which, in turn, leads to dominion. Genesis 1 is simply stating a fact that everyone could see. Humans had dominion over the agressive and violent animals that they knew -- lions, tigers, and other predators -- thru spears, bows, chariots, etc. Having dominion is a statement of what people can do, not about the nature of the animals.

You are getting confused between things God created and things that have been perverted. Do you really believe that God created the animals to hunt and kill people when He originally created the Garden of Eden?

Yes. Because the Garden of Eden was only a part of the earth. The rest of the earth had the violent animals in it.

I know how animals were in biblical days, but that doesn't mean God created them to be that way originally.

Yes, it does.

Like I said do you really think animals hunt and kill humans and Angels in Heaven? The Bible says that God wants His will to be done in earth as it is in Heaven.

Are there animals in heaven? Even if there are and they don't, that is irrelevant to what happens on earth. The Lord's Prayer is a prayer that we follow God's Will. It doesn't say that God's will is that there are no agressive animals on earth!

LilAngelheart, you have a lot more chutzpah than I do. You tell God what He means and wants!

BTW, if God is so powerful, why did He allow the fallen angels to mess with His Creation? Another refutation of your theory is that it makes God impotent, not powerful.

What makes you think that? You don't think the same thing about Jesus allowing the men, mere humans to beat Him nearly to death and hang Him on the cross do? Why do you have such little faith that you mistake God allowing something to happen as meaning God is powerless?

Apples and oranges. Jesus dying on the Cross was part of God's Plan! You are telling me that Satan messing up Creation was NOT part of God's Plan.

You still have the Manichean and Marcionite heresies at work. I'm sorry, but you do. Please read up on them and then compare them to what you are saying. You are saying that there are two deities: God and Satan, with Satan being responsible for the creation of major animals on earth.

Okay so if all things are made by God then you are saying illness, deformity, drugs, weapons of mass destruction, crack cocain, cigarrettes, and every other harmful thing that's on the earth was made by God. If all means all then those things are included.

Now you are playing semantics. The passage in Romans refers to Creation, not what man has manufactured since Creation. The biological organisms that cause diseases are created by God by the secondary mechanism of evolution. They are part of creating a complete universe such that our lives have meaning. God created rocks, too, right? Well then, when a rockslide wipes out a schoolbus, did God cause that? Or is the cause gravity and not directly God? Same with diseases. You seem to think that God created a universe where humans would live forever and always be happy. Not so. If God would have rigged the universe that way, then our lives would have no meaning. We would simply be puppets dancing to God's strings. Instead, we have a universe where we get sick, because God created microorganisms, just like we have rock slides because God made gravity. We have to cope with the bad. God will be there to comfort us and support us. But, for our lives to have meaning, we have to cope with these bad things.

lucaspa: Why? Just because they are not mentioned in the Bible and they make problems for your literal interpretation? Ever consider that it's your interpretation that is flawed?

Or maybe your interpretation if you think that God is powerless because He let Jesus die for our sins and you think God created illnesses, deformity, weapons, and everything. I bet you think God created abortion since it exists huh?

1. Jesus dying for our sins was only the latest attempt by God to make contact with people. He tried with the Law, He tried with the Prophets and both failed. People didn't listen. So, God finally became human so He could really understand us. And then, in order to save us, He had to sacrifice Himself. Just like the firemen at 9/11 had to sacrifice themselves so that they could get people out of the Twin Towers. The only way, apparently, to purchase forgiveness for our sins was for Jesus to die. What happened was part of God's Plan, not powerlessness. But you say God's Plan was to create a world of nice, gentle beasts but along comes Satan and thwarts that plan.
2. Over 50% of pregnancies do end in spontaneous abortions. Fully 25% of pregnancies are twins, but in nearly all of them one twin dies and is resorbed into the body! So yes, abortion of fetuses is something God created. Now, humans can also abort fetuses due to their technology. The question is not whether God created human caused abortion, but whether it is something God wants humans to do. Remember, God created humans with free will.

Wait a minute. Now that I think of it, God did create humans "in his image". In the language of the time, it meant that humans represented God and what they did was as tho God did it. So, by your reasoning, I guess God did create all those bad things. Now we have to figure out why.

Ooooh so you disagree then that the fallen angels came to earth and slept with human women and created the giants?

Yes. God's Creation contradicts this interpretation of those verses.

So you think God is limited by time then and doesn't know the future? So how could the book of Revelations have been written? It's about the future. Are you saying you don't believe the book of Revelations was written by God?

Revelations itself says it was written by John, not God. It is a series of visions John has. You sound like you think God picked up pen and paper and wrote it. Revelation is about the trials and tribulations the Church is undergoing. It is written in a style well-recognized of the time, but unfortunately some people have misinterpreted it as prophecy.

Ummmm excuse me? My whole reasoning is NOT based on the existence of Big foot and also, didn't YOU catch the news about the hair samples they found?!

British scientists made a startling announcement. After examining the DNA in a strand of hair thought to come from a Yeti - the Asian cousin to America's Bigfoot - scientists were unable to identify it as coming from any known animal

You didn't give us a source. I did give you a source later for Big Foot being a hoax.

 

[lucaspa]

I never said God is not the real creater! I'm simply stating that God's creation can be perverted. Do you not agree with that?

With all respect, that isn't what you are saying. You are not saying that Satan changed existing animals, but that Satan and the bad angels actaully created dinosaurs, presumably out of nothing just like God did.

Think about what you are saying if you say God's creation can't be perverted.

Remember that God gave humans free will, dominion over nature, and made humans "in his image" -- His representatives acting in His name. However, you are saying that someone stepped in and changed Creation while God was saying it was "good". You are saying that Satan and angels made dinosaurs and some other animals when Genesis 2:19 says God made every beast. It appears that you are a literalist. Now you are saying the Bible is lying. If the Bible didn't mean God made every beast, then why say so?

What humans make with their technology is obviously after God created the universe. However, you are saying that Satan stepped in while God was creating and made the dinosaurs!

What do you tell people whose loved ones are hooked on crack? Oh it's okay they are just in God's will because God created crack anyway so He must have wanted some people to become drug addicts. LOL!

Don't be silly! I tell them that their loved ones made some bad choices. God will comfort them and support them while they are going thru this trial. God will not dessert them in this bad time, but will be with them.

Sorry, LilAngelHeart, what do you tell them? That Satan hooked their loved ones and God is powerless to help? That for some reason God didn't step in and stop Satan from doing this?

 

[lucaspa]

LilAngelheart, this seems to be the most complete data available on the supposed Bigfoot hair samples: http://www.bfro.net/REF/THEORIES/WHF/dnatests.htm

No DNA analysis at all! Morphologically, the hair is the same as human hair. The latest on this is 1999, while the hoax was brought to light in 2003. "all effectively indistinguishable from a human hair of the particular structure (great variability is available among the latter). "

The Yeti samples are different, but then no one says Yeti is Bigfoot.
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns9999583

Notice that there were several samples supposedly from Yeti, but all were identified as some other species. Notice from the first site, however, that DNA from hair samples are often unidentifiable. I can find no follow-up to the 2001 study and Sykes never published in a peer-reviewed journal. I'm not even sure we got Sykes quoted in context. All we have are news reports, no data.

This is a more recent website and talk by Sykes. No mention of hair, but what we get instead is: "Similarly, he told how he determined that a sample of a 'yeti' bone recently brought to him for analysis actually came from a bear! " http://www.trinity.unimelb.edu.au/publications/trinityupdate/nov2003/article08.shtml

 

[lucaspa]

LilAngelHeart, let's back up a bit and start over. Now, as I read your OP thru, it appears that
1. You don't accept evolution but believe God created each species directly, including humans.
2. Have creatures in the fossil record -- such as dinosaurs and neandertals -- that are not mentioned in the creation stories.

#2 makes problems for #1. Because that life was different in the past from life today is a powerful argument for evolution and against God creating every species in its present form. So, in order to account for the fossil record, you have formulated the theory you present in the OP. Now, if I have misrepresented or misunderstood, please correct me.

Also, it appears that you consider the dinosaurs to be all the huge carnivorous dinosaurs such as T. rex. Or even if you think of the plant eaters, you know that they could not possibly have been on the Ark. That's another problem, isn't it?

So, the theory you propose deals with all that. The animals that cause so much trouble are now not created by God but by the fallen angels. That means they don't have to be on the Ark and it accounts for the ferocious image of the meat-eating dinos that we see in Jurassic Park and other media. Also, the intermediate species in the fossil record that are obviously in between apes and humans -- A. afarensis (Lucy), erectus, neandertals, and even sapiens that lived in the caves of Europe and who are also pictured as brutal and "animalistic" by the media can be gotten rid of as creations of the false angels. As an added bonus, you get to account for evil by having anything "not good" be the creations of these fallen angels.

Unfortunately, the solution creates its own theological problems. It means that God is not the Creator we affirm in the Nicean Creed:
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
Now we have other creators of parts of the earth -- the fallen angels. This is what Bishop Marcion stated so long ago: creation was made not by God but by a lesser being and creation is evil.

OK, is there another way around the dilemma you have? Can we find a solution that has God be Creator and can account for evil? I think so. Please walk with me a bit and look at another path:
God wants to create a universe that has sentient beings that can communicate with Him. But God does not want these beings to be puppets. Instead, God has so much love for them that He wants their life to be meaningful. That is, the decisions and actions that they take will have real consequences -- meaning. God so loves them (even tho they don't exist yet) that He wants them to be free to make their own lives and have those lives be meaningful in that they will impact other lives and affect them.

To do this, God has to create a complete universe. A universe with a history. What's more, a history that is not dictated by God. A universe where the future is not pre-determined, so that the choices and actions of the sentients that will come into existence have meaning. God does this by creating a complete, whole universe without gaps. A universe where the material mechanisms God uses to create will end up forming the details of the universe. This does not mean God starts the universe like a clock and then simply watches what happens. Oh no! God is intimately involved, because God must be always present or the material mechanisms won't work. What's more, God can always intervene and guide the process if He wants, but that intervention can be at a level we can't detect with science.

So, evolution eventually produces a sentient species God can communicate with -- humans. God knows that sentience will produce technology and thus that this sentient species will have dominion over the earth. He already gave them dominion when He decided He wanted to create sentience. He also knew that the sentient species would make bad choices. They are sentient but not wise enough to always make good choices. But they have to be able to make bad choices because, if they don't, they aren't free and their lives don't have meaning. So, much of the "evil" of the world comes as a unavoidable by-product of God's love -- that we are free to choose. However, God also doesn't abandon us when evil happens. He can't intervene without taking away the meaning of our lives, but He can, and does, provide strength and comfort for us to deal with evil and tragedy. After all, part of who we are comes from how we deal with tough times. We are a product of our tears as much as of our laughter. Take away the tears and we are not whole; we are cartoon characters.

Also, as the world unfolds the material processes of the world -- gravity, plate tectonics, weather, microbes etc. also have to happen. God can't stop every hurricane or tornado or landslide or disease without making us pets and not free. Again, for our lives to be meaningful we have to deal with tragedy. Rescuing people from a landslide and saving houses from a forest fire is meaningful to the people who are rescued and the people who do the rescuing. It can't be a fake forest fire or the forest fire can't be prevented without robbing the people involved of the meaning of their lives.

Similarly, for Jesus' life to have meaning, he had to face real suffering and death. And it had to be his choice! It was. Remember the Garden of Gethsemane when Jesus prays to have the cup pass from him? Now, none of the disciples were there and there was no opportunity for Jesus to tell anyone about it. The particular story may never have happened, but for the writers to put it in and show the human frailties of Jesus, it means that Jesus must have voiced those doubts at other times. Jesus could reasonably see how the Pharisees and Romans would take his ministry -- as a threat. And any thinking person could predict what the outcome would be -- torture and a very painful death. Jesus could have backed away anytime. He could have fled Jerusalem before Judas and the soldiers got to him. In a Passover crowd, that would not have been a problem. But he chose to stay. And that choice gave his life meaning. And God, as a good Father, let his son make that choice, even when it meant pain and suffering. So His son was a free person and his life had meaning. Which is why we say "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son". It's an act of love, not power. So is creating a complete world by evolution. It's an act of love that creating by poofing can never equal.

I hope that path solves your dilemma. Dinosaurs are God's Creation. They are part of the whole process of creating a complete world with meaning. And because dinosaurs exist, they inspire awe and admiration in us, that such fantastic creatures existed. They are a small part that contributes to a life worth living.

 

[Curt]

Isa 45:7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
(KJV)

Prov 3:5-8
5 TRUST IN THE LORD WITH ALL THINE HEART; and LEAN NOT UNTO THINE OWN understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7 BE NOT WISE IN THINE OWN EYES: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
8 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.
2 Tim 3:16-17
16 ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD, AND IS PROFITABLE for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Pet 1:20
20 Knowing this first, that NO PROPHECY OF THE SCRIPTURE IS OF ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.
2 Sam 14:14
14 For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; NEITHER DOTH GOD RESPECT ANY PERSON: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him.
Job 37:24
24 Men do therefore fear him: HE RESPECTETH NOT ANY THAT ARE WISE OF HEART.
John 17:22-23
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may BE ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE.
23 I in them, and thou in me, THAT THEY MAY BE MADE PERFECT IN ONE; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Ps 138:2
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness AND FOR THY TRUTH: FOR THOU HAST MAGNIFIED THY WORD ABOVE ALL THY NAME.
James 1:22-25
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Josh 24:15
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
(KJV)