Dinosaurs & The Missing Link

[troodon]

 

[LilAngelHeart]

The fossil record shows us that dinosaurs, mammals, and all sorts of creatures have died. Dinosaurs are no different than any of the thousands of other types of animals we have found in the fossil record. Dinosaurs were not the only ones doing the killing and they were also killed.

If what you say is correct then all animals, including mammals and birds, are the result of sin because their are killers in all the groups.

Again, dinosaurs are no different than any other type of animals and range in size, features, and aggressiveness just like mammals, birds, and fish.

I don't see any biblical references identifying dinosaurs or apes as being any different than birds, mammals or fishes.

The Bible does say that mankind and this whole planet meaning everything on this planet has become cursed and altered by the sin nature as a result of the fall of man. Even the dirt has become cursed which is why God couldn't go back and create Jesus from the dirt He had to be born from Mary.

 

[ThePhoenix]

The Bible does say that mankind and this whole planet meaning everything on this planet has become cursed and altered by the sin nature as a result of the fall of man. Even the dirt has become cursed which is why God couldn't go back and create Jesus from the dirt He had to be born from Mary.

What version of the bible is this? The heavily annotated, highly improbably bible? God could have created Jesus out of the dirt, he can do anything. He didn't. Jesus was human, that's why he was born like a human. Otherwise God could have created him fully grown.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

With all respect, that isn't what you are saying. You are not saying that Satan changed existing animals, but that Satan and the bad angels actaully created dinosaurs, presumably out of nothing just like God did.


No no no no, i'm not saying satan created anything from scratch, I'm saying satan can alter things genetically to make other things.




Remember that God gave humans free will, dominion over nature, and made humans "in his image" -- His representatives acting in His name. However, you are saying that someone stepped in and changed Creation while God was saying it was "good".

No no no no no that's not what I'm saying. LOL! I'm saying satan came in after the fact. After sin entered the planet.



You are saying that Satan and angels made dinosaurs and some other animals when Genesis 2:19 says God made every beast. It appears that you are a literalist. Now you are saying the Bible is lying. If the Bible didn't mean God made every beast, then why say so?

No no no no that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying they altered things after the fact.



What humans make with their technology is obviously after God created the universe. However, you are saying that Satan stepped in while God was creating and made the dinosaurs!

No no no no no, not at all. That's not what I'm saying.



Don't be silly! I tell them that their loved ones made some bad choices. God will comfort them and support them while they are going thru this trial. God will not dessert them in this bad time, but will be with them.

Sorry, LilAngelHeart, what do you tell them? That Satan hooked their loved ones and God is powerless to help? That for some reason God didn't step in and stop Satan from doing this?

No, it's a result of the sin nature when mankind fell. It's not God's will for things to be that way. God didn't create u s to suffer.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

LilAngelheart, this seems to be the most complete data available on the supposed Bigfoot hair samples: http://www.bfro.net/REF/THEORIES/WHF/dnatests.htm

No DNA analysis at all! Morphologically, the hair is the same as human hair. The latest on this is 1999, while the hoax was brought to light in 2003. "all effectively indistinguishable from a human hair of the particular structure (great variability is available among the latter). "

The Yeti samples are different, but then no one says Yeti is Bigfoot.
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns9999583

Notice that there were several samples supposedly from Yeti, but all were identified as some other species. Notice from the first site, however, that DNA from hair samples are often unidentifiable. I can find no follow-up to the 2001 study and Sykes never published in a peer-reviewed journal. I'm not even sure we got Sykes quoted in context. All we have are news reports, no data.

This is a more recent website and talk by Sykes. No mention of hair, but what we get instead is: "Similarly, he told how he determined that a sample of a 'yeti' bone recently brought to him for analysis actually came from a bear! " http://www.trinity.unimelb.edu.au/publications/trinityupdate/nov2003/article08.shtml

LOL! You're saying the same thing I said basically. I said they didn't have definate proof of what it was, but the Yeti hairs were of an unknown species, it does prove that there is an unknown species out there that has DNA they have never seen before, Yeti are the same as Big foot, just a different name. With your other examples you are sayig that they got what they thought was a Bigfoot hair but was really a human hair, okay, and they got what they thought was a yeti bone but it was a bear's okay. That's doesn't say there isn't a big foot, just that they haven't got a bigfoot bone or hair sample yet. But anyway, this is not about Bigfoot God's word is true whether Big foot exists or not.

 

[troodon]

Dinosaurs were animals just like any you might see today. You have no basis for claiming that they were any different. Your claim that dinosaurs were "aggressive and violent hunters" has been shown to be false. There is more reason to call them "monsters" than to call a shark, a cougar, or a human a "monster". You have provided no evidence for the claim that dinosaurs were "evil". Dinosaurs show no traits which would point to them being reptile-human-angel hybrids (in fact that is among the most absurd things I've ever heard. Please go to a website or read a book and learn how diverse Dinosauria is). Your examples of drugs not being created by God are not analogous to dinosaurs because you have not demonstrated that someone other than God (or evolution for that matter) has created them. Your claim that God did not create poison (if you believe in special creation) is completely false. Humanity has not found a way to create dinosaurs "like in Jurassic Park", otherwise we'd have living dinosaurs somewhere on the planet. You have supplied no reason behind Satan's creation of Dinosauria. I do not see why "the missing link is the enemy". Here are some dino/bird "missing links". Your claim that Satan created the Tree of Knowledge is very strange and without Biblical support. And, lastly, you have provided no reason to believe that technology (or the "tech age") is evil.

I will repeat that after reading your posts my brain hurts. I must go see Dr. Gumby immediately; it will have to come out.

 

[missiondocsda]

Lucaspa,
/Revelations itself says it was written by John, not God. It is a series of visions John has. You sound like you think God picked up pen and paper and wrote it. Revelation is about the trials and tribulations the Church is undergoing. It is written in a style well-recognized of the time, but unfortunately some people have misinterpreted it as prophecy./
We have the whole set of records and data that it was not merely a mna called John sat down and muttered about a biography. Biblical I might say God also sat down and write the book. It's has not been a self-prophesying book, but more than a revelation of the redemption plan by Jesus in the basis of love.

When God refers to 'every', can He include only those He made? Can I, if i am not a christian at all, justify the meaning og 'every' in your context, as everything, so God created sin also?

The whole lenghty piece is a synchronized harmony, Lucaspa, in your writing. But it just refer to another faith, not christian faith.

Though Lilangelheart did excite me some questions, like Lucifer travelled in time to do what he liked, that's bit imaginary without sound evidence, overall was a good work. I did bit of imaginationary, but acceptable enough in human logic

The whole nature on earth changed accordingly after sin. Killer whale, etc, yes. But dinosuars, some of them we may classify them as dinosaurs, but i suggest that some may not out of the hand of God's creation, thus wiped out without mercy. They didn't reflect the harmony of His work.

God bless.

 

[rkonfire]

God did write the book of Revelation. Remember, God's Word is "God-breathed," Lucaspa. He chose to use His creation to physically write the book. Setting such limitations on God, such as the one you stated, is really sad to see. Why would you want to worship a god who, by definition, isn't God if He's controlled by human regulations and reasoning?

 

[LilAngelHeart]

Okay, for those who believe in evolution what do you think of this:

Strangly enough, it's a little-known fact that several archaeological digs have produced skeletons of ancient men and women over 7 feet tall. There has also been excavations of unknown humanoid cultures that indicate a stature smaller than any known pigmy tribes. Some digs have uncovered -giants with two rows of teeth. Some have also been found with sharply slanted foreheads and fangs, and one particular burial mound revealed remains of a humanoid with horns protruding out of the skull. This immediately causes ones mind to conjure up images of devils and demons.

Ernesto Abbate, an Italian paleontologist, believes that perhaps as many as 20 different species of human-like creatures have existed over the last 5 million years. There are skulls in a museum in Cusco, Peru, that have yet to be explained. One is a cone-head shaped skull. Another is a huge, round skull with enormous eye sockets. Then there is a skull that appears to have a double hemisphere, with the capacity for a double sized brain. In 1997 a research team concluded that the mitochondrail DNA of a Neanderthal was so distinctly different from our own, that it is highly unlikely that humans evolved from them through evolution alone.(There's no such thing as evolution in humans) A possibly 400 million year old shoe print was discovered in Pershing County, Nevada. The fossil even clearly showed what looked like fine double-stitching in the seams. Some have speculated about the possibility of time-travel as an answer to some of these mysteries.

So humans used to have horns, fangs, and double rows of teeth? LOL!

Also, Then there's also, the "discovery" of the oldest known mummy in North America. The mummy, named the Spirit Cave man, was found on the shelves of the Nevada State Museum. Discovered in Nevada in 1940 it was originally thought to be 2000 years old. Recent radiocarbon dating has pushed its age back to 9,400 years (7,400 BC).

The most intriguing facts is that the mummy was wearing moccasins and shrouds of woven marsh plants. The weave of the shrouds indicates that it was made on a loom.

Also we know that heavenly beings are capable of living outside time because time only exists outside heaven, under heaven, and lucifer was from Heaven before he got kicked out, so who's to say that he is limited by time?

 

[LilAngelHeart]

Dinosaurs were animals just like any you might see today. You have no basis for claiming that they were any different. Your claim that dinosaurs were "aggressive and violent hunters" has been shown to be false. There is more reason to call them "monsters" than to call a shark, a cougar, or a human a "monster". You have provided no evidence for the claim that dinosaurs were "evil". Dinosaurs show no traits which would point to them being reptile-human-angel hybrids (in fact that is among the most absurd things I've ever heard. Please go to a website or read a book and learn how diverse Dinosauria is). Your examples of drugs not being created by God are not analogous to dinosaurs because you have not demonstrated that someone other than God (or evolution for that matter) has created them. Your claim that God did not create poison (if you believe in special creation) is completely false. Humanity has not found a way to create dinosaurs "like in Jurassic Park", otherwise we'd have living dinosaurs somewhere on the planet. You have supplied no reason behind Satan's creation of Dinosauria. I do not see why "the missing link is the enemy". Here are some dino/bird "missing links". Your claim that Satan created the Tree of Knowledge is very strange and without Biblical support. And, lastly, you have provided no reason to believe that technology (or the "tech age") is evil.

I will repeat that after reading your posts my brain hurts. I must go see Dr. Gumby immediately; it will have to come out.

You just don't understand. You have to look with your spiritual eyes, read my post below this.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

You must check this site out, I can't explain it all here. http://luvvy12.tripod.com/godandscience/id2.html

 

[ThePhoenix]

You must check this site out, I can't explain it all here. http://luvvy12.tripod.com/godandscience/id2.html

Yes, fallen angels zipping through black holes, I'm sure it makes sense, somehow...

 

[troodon]

Strangly enough, it's a little-known fact that several archaeological digs have produced skeletons of ancient men and women over 7 feet tall.

I'd assume it's little known because that claim is false. Do you have a source for this information?

There has also been excavations of unknown humanoid cultures that indicate a stature smaller than any known pigmy tribes.

This one I don't doubt but again you have provided no evidence (something a novice scientist such as myself holds dear)

Some digs have uncovered -giants with two rows of teeth. Some have also been found with sharply slanted foreheads and fangs, and one particular burial mound revealed remains of a humanoid with horns protruding out of the skull. This immediately causes ones mind to conjure up images of devils and demons.

Again, no source. Also, I would just like to say that I find it doubtful that if demons and the devil exist that they would have a) come to earth in the form that humans normally attribute to them and b) died here.

Ernesto Abbate, an Italian paleontologist, believes that perhaps as many as 20 different species of human-like creatures have existed over the last 5 million years.

Wow, do you understand what Abbate means by this? He is talking about Hominids! Our fossil ancestors and close relatives! Hominids like these:

Hominids in general
Africanus
Afarensis
Ramidus
Anamensis

There are skulls in a museum in Cusco, Peru, that have yet to be explained. One is a cone-head shaped skull. Another is a huge, round skull with enormous eye sockets.

Those skulls are interesting, but seem to me to be little more than the result of some sort of cultural practice.

Then there is a skull that appears to have a double hemisphere, with the capacity for a double sized brain.

My http://</font><font color=source states that all the skulls are within normal human cranail variations so you'll have to supply some evidence for this.

In 1997 a research team concluded that the mitochondrail DNA of a Neanderthal was so distinctly different from our own, that it is highly unlikely that humans evolved from them through evolution alone.

That's why people don't claim humans evolved from Neandertals anymore, they were an evolutionary tangent.

(There's no such thing as evolution in humans)

Tell that to my skin color.

A possibly 400 million year old shoe print was discovered in Pershing County, Nevada.

Strange how some websites say it's in Triassic limestone and yet others say the print is 400 million years old. In fact, some say both! I can't really comment on this further unless you can provide more information (picture would be nice).

Some have speculated about the possibility of time-travel as an answer to some of these mysteries.

Yes, in looking up your claims I've noticed many of them are used as evidence of alien visitation as well. How 'bout that?

So humans used to have horns, fangs, and double rows of teeth? LOL!

So intangible demons somehow have their own genetic code and are capable of breeding not only with humans but with dinosaurs? LOL!

Also, Then there's also, the "discovery" of the oldest known mummy in North America. The mummy, named the Spirit Cave man, was found on the shelves of the Nevada State Museum. Discovered in Nevada in 1940 it was originally thought to be 2000 years old. Recent radiocarbon dating has pushed its age back to 9,400 years (7,400 BC).

Yeah, deserts can mummify things you know.

The most intriguing facts is that the mummy was wearing moccasins and shrouds of woven marsh plants. The weave of the shrouds indicates that it was made on a loom.

Um, cool? Native Americans having weaving technology (even that far back) isn't all that amazing.

You just don't understand. You have to look with your spiritual eyes, read my post below this.

Your link had nothing to do with your claims about dinosaurs. All it has to do with is the anti-Christ taking the form of an alien and giving us time traveling technology. I became really disinterested when I saw them claim that stars with 4 times the mass of the sun will become black holes (they have to be a lot bigger than that).

 

[notto]

You must check this site out, I can't explain it all here. http://luvvy12.tripod.com/godandscience/id2.html

From the site:
[font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]I know while on trips in the car with my family as a kid, I used to stare out the window at cars and car wheels and I used to notice that if the wheel on the cars had a shape inside the hubcap part, like an X or cross shape, I noticed that when they started up the shape inside the wheel would go in the same direction as the wheel, but once the car picked up speed, the shape inside seemed to stop turning and looked static, still, and as the car went even faster, the shape inside the wheel would trun in the opposite direction of the wheel! It used to fascinate me, I thought it was just an optical illusion, but now I realize that thats the principle of how time travel works but on a larger scale. When the shape was static looking, that was like time stopped for the shape, then as the car went even faster, the shape then went/turned in a motion opposite of the way the wheels were turning, that was like the shape went backwards in time! And thats nowhere near the speed of light, but I observed this with my own eyes. Very fascinating. You can see it with house fans too, or anything that spins around fast and has another shape inside of the outer spinning part. [/font][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
[/font]

Wow. Whoever wrote this has no business discussing Einstein's theories and should study up on artificial light sources.

 

[ThePhoenix]

From the site:[font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]-[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
[/font]Wow. Whoever wrote this has no business discussing Einstein's theories and should study up on artificial light sources.

Otherwise known as "How the sampling rate of the human eye hurts us when dealing with objects moving at absurd speeds."

 

[rkonfire]

Anyone that is human and can speak is allowed to give an opinion. The idea that you have to have a Ph.D to talk is ridiculous. At least that's what I'm getting by some posts by people here.

 

[lucaspa]

The Bible does say that mankind and this whole planet meaning everything on this planet has become cursed and altered by the sin nature as a result of the fall of man. Even the dirt has become cursed which is why God couldn't go back and create Jesus from the dirt He had to be born from Mary.

LilAngelheart, Genesis 3:17-18 says "cursed is the ground because of you, in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life; thorns and thistles it shall bring forth to you; and you shall eat the plants of the field" The context is clear that the whole earth is not cursed. Instead, what is happening is that farming has become very hard. Crops will not grow without constant tending and eliminating weeds -- thorns and thistles.

The punishments for eating the fruit are very specific:
1. The serpent loses his legs.
2. People hate and fear serpents.
3. Childbirth becomes painful and even deadly, but women will still desire sex.
4. Farming becomes difficult. Weeds will overgrow a field, pests will eat the crops. None of this happened in Eden.

And that is IT. The only consequences are for the participants -- the serpent and Adam and Eve. The rest of the planet is left alone and creation is still "good". To have all creation be "bad" is something that the Gnostics and Manicheans believed. Your intepretation is not incorporated into any of the major creeds that define Chistianity.

 

[lucaspa]

You must check this site out, I can't explain it all here. http://luvvy12.tripod.com/godandscience/id2.html

I am checking it out. Anything specific we are to look at? I'm looking at just the first paragraph there right now:
"This interconnected relationship of time and space is called the spacetime continuum, which means that any event that occurs in the universe(our universe) has to involve both space and time. (Which is why fallen angels need a body, something that can occupy space and time in order to do things here, since their bodies are outside time, they cannot occupy space or time here on this planet without getting into something.born of the earth) "

Now, if fallen angels have to have a material body to affect to do things "here" (on earth), it means that God would have to do the same. After all, don't Christians claim He is outside time? Yet we have stories in the Bible where God does do things here without a physical body. Destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, destroying the Tower of Babel, sending a plague to the Babylonian army etc. You can find many more if you are interested.

So already, right off the bat, the site is contradicting Christianity!

"Angelic beings are a type of mass and we know that when Lucifer was kicked from Heaven he and the 1/3 that followed him exist in the regions or space around earth. "
Can you provide a Biblical reference for this? Or are they getting their theology from Milton?

"Scientists have discovered that even at the speeds of the space shuttle, astronauts can travel a few nanoseconds into the future."

This is untrue. They have not traveled into the future. So far, time travel is impossible. Instead, they have experienced a few nanoseconds less time elapse than we. They are actually a bit slower than us. But when the resume our velocity, they are at the same place in time as we are.

There is no time travel. There are simply unsupported speculation about it. I can't see someone making a whole theology and then telling people it is true based on unsupported speculation. Didn't Jesus warn about building on sand? This is worse than sand. It's making fairy castles in the air.

 

[lucaspa]

With all respect, that isn't what you are saying. You are not saying that Satan changed existing animals, but that Satan and the bad angels actaully created dinosaurs, presumably out of nothing just like God did.


No no no no, i'm not saying satan created anything from scratch, I'm saying satan can alter things genetically to make other things.

Lilangelheart, you are saying that Satan made dinos without any gene splicing, labs, or any material mechanisms. What's more the DNA is different from the DNA God created. So yes, you are saying Satan created beasts from scratch. Changing DNA is not enough. You have to create the cells that the DNA are in: the sperm and egg. Then at the least you have to have in vitro fertilization and somehow take the fertilized egg to birth without an adult around. THEN you have to somehow take care of the infant until adulthood, because they have no parents. You see, all this is taking place, by your account, in one step. So somewhere in there Satan has to invoke the same "miraculous" ability you ascribe to God.

Remember that God gave humans free will, dominion over nature, and made humans "in his image" -- His representatives acting in His name. However, you are saying that someone stepped in and changed Creation while God was saying it was "good".

No no no no no that's not what I'm saying. LOL! I'm saying satan came in after the fact. After sin entered the planet.

But there is no mention in the Bible of dinosaurs suddenly appearing. The only reference the Bible makes to a beast that some creationists think is a dinosaur is Behemoth, and those passages in Job state specifically that God created Behemoth and Leviathan!

Now, if suddenly these large beasts had suddenly appeared and in the numbers we know were there from the fossil record, why did no one mention this in the Bible? You can't simply say that the Bible doesn't mention it when you are making it an essential part of the theology. To do that means that the Bible is not telling us what we rely on it to tell us -- theology. It means LilAngelHeart is making it up; and we aren't supposed to follow people who make it up. Those people are called "false prophets".

In God's Creation, the data is clear that all the dinosaurs lived and died before humans were around. So now this theology is saying God is lying to us in His Creation! That can't be good either, can it.

lucaspa: You are saying that Satan and angels made dinosaurs and some other animals when Genesis 2:19 says God made every beast. It appears that you are a literalist. Now you are saying the Bible is lying. If the Bible didn't mean God made every beast, then why say so?

No no no no that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying they altered things after the fact.

They can't alter things that much! Now you have a whole new class of animals! One that God didn't create when God tells us He created all the animals. Where is your Biblical support for Satan making these animals?

No, it's a result of the sin nature when mankind fell. It's not God's will for things to be that way. God didn't create u s to suffer.
[/QUOTE]The Bible says you can't punish the sons for the iniquity of the fathers:
Deut. 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the
children be put to death for the fathers (2Chron.25:54) :every man shall be put to
death for his own sin." (2 Kings 14:6)

Ezek. 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of
the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of
the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon
him."

What you are saying is that God is powerless to keep the children from crack. Yes, God did not mean for it to be that way, but now you say God was either stupid enough not to put the cookie jar out of reach (something any human parent knows), God was so stupid He didn't know the nature of the humans He created, or God was powerless and not paying attention enough to stop them from eating the fruit. If God is outside of time as you say, and thus can see the future, then God could see what was going to happen and the consequence and it was not going to be His will. So with that knowledge God could not stop either the kids from trying crack or Eve from eating the fruit?

On an even larger scale, since God knew the nature of the serpent, why in the world did God put the serpent in the Garden in the first place?

You see, LilAngelHeart? The theology you are advocating ends up with God either being incredibly stupid or powerless. Both of which contradict your other statements about God.

 

[lucaspa]

LOL! You're saying the same thing I said basically. I said they didn't have definate proof of what it was, but the Yeti hairs were of an unknown species, it does prove that there is an unknown species out there that has DNA they have never seen before,

No, it simply says they couldn't identify the DNA. Obviously, they don't have the DNA of all species on the planet sequenced! Also, the DNA had degraded and thus could simply be bear DNA that was degraded to the point that it didn't match. What's more, there has been no information about it and there never was a peer-reviewed paper! This indicates that the data was faulty for the reasons given. You notice in the later talk that the "hair" was not mentioned. I suspect the scientist is just too embarrassed and is hoping everyone will forget it.

Yeti are the same as Big foot, just a different name.

That's not what many sites say. Yeti is the Abominable Snowman. That's not the same as Bigfoot. Some people speculate that Yetic and Bigfoot is the same. Now that we know Bigfoot is a hoax, that speculation is now gone.

[/quote]God's word is true whether Big foot exists or not.
[/QUOTE]Then where in God's word does it say that Satan made dinosaurs?

Also, you realize that 99.99% of all species that lived are extinct? Did Satan make all of them? If not, how do we tell which ones Satan made and which ones God made? Both the Bible and the Nicean Creed say God made all the species. So why do you want to invent that Satan made some?